[noob00224]

Which ALR screens have you used with which projectors out of interest? Would be interesting to hear brands of screens and projectors where you found issues and if so which throw ratios? Could guide us all on what circumstances do and don't work.

In my experience the exact opposite is true, re: hotspotting relavant to brightness of PJ
Using HW40ES on an ALR - Hot spotting, specifically centre of image brighter than edges.
Using Epson 9400 on an ALR = Couldn't perceive any hot spotting
Using Draper React screen.

Brighter projectors being more prone to artifacting is a known fact, not unique to one setup.

I don't know if the Epson was actually brighter. Depends on the lamp mode, preset, lamp hours.

Brightness uniformity is one aspect that can affect it, but they are both the same.

To asses hotspot a white background should be used.

 

[aoaaron]

Brighter projectors being more prone to artifacting is a known fact, not unique to one setup.

I don't know if the Epson was actually brighter. Depends on the lamp mode, preset, lamp hours.

Brightness uniformity is one aspect that can affect it, but they are both the same.

To asses hotspot a white background should be used.

The Epson definitely gave less hotspotting.
You didn't really answer any of my questions btw.

Which ALR screens have you used and with which projectors and which throw ratios? And what room conditions? If you haven't or have only used one, or none, its fine but saying it for clarity's sake is a great help.
Or are your opinions on this matter just 'known facts' from google and the forum experiences.

I suggest OP talks to a dealer and gets a demo of the equipment as at least with Draper React ALRs, I spoke to plenty of dealers who said throw ratios of 1.5, 1.4 didn't provie noticeable hotspotting to their eyes and they had plenty of happy customers. Also in an untreated room, its going to be the biggest improvement of perceived contrast and black level; the enemy of projectors; alongside the other enemy of projectors'.. ambient light.

To write them off and suggest getting a white screen in an untreated room is... advice I just cannot follow easily.

 

[noob00224]

The Epson definitely gave less hotspotting.
You didn't really answer any of my questions btw.

Which ALR screens have you used and with which projectors and which throw ratios? And what room conditions? If you haven't or have only used one, or none, its fine but saying it for clarity's sake is a great help.
Or are your opinions on this matter just 'known facts' from google and the forum experiences.

I suggest OP talks to a dealer and gets a demo of the equipment as at least with Draper React ALRs, I spoke to plenty of dealers who said throw ratios of 1.5, 1.4 didn't provie noticeable hotspotting to their eyes and they had plenty of happy customers. Also in an untreated room, its going to be the biggest improvement of perceived contrast and black level; the enemy of projectors; alongside the other enemy of projectors'.. ambient light.

To write them off and suggest getting a white screen in an untreated room is... advice I just cannot follow easily.

It makes no difference if I used or not, I know what I'm talking about. This phenomenon has been observed many times. It's also logical due to how angular ALR works. Artifacts can be other then hotspots as well.

 

[aoaaron]

It makes no difference if I used or not, I know what I'm talking about. This phenomenon has been observed many times. It's also logical due to how angular ALR works. Artifacts can be other then hotspots as well.

So, you haven't used an ALR screen? I think sometimes it good value to know if someone has used a product or not or whether they're just gathering data form forums and regurgitating it.

I find it very strange that you are dodging very clear, very easy to answer questions. Its easy to say 'No I have not used an ALR screen in my setup but I like to give advice from what I have googled and what I've heard from other people' or 'Yes I've owned 3 ALR screens, used it with 3 projectors and in 2 different home cinema circumstances'. Why not be honest and clear rather than speaking like a politcian with this very simple question? I'm utterly confused.

The reason is because although 'facts' and numbers are great.. they don't tell the full picture which is the qualitative improvement of a specific product on a home cinema chain.

For example with an ALR screen, its balancing the convienance, the ambient light rejection, the improvement of the casual home cinema experience by it having to be able to reject ambient light AND reflective light around the room, the perceived contrast improvement which is darastic in an untreated room etc. Alongside this its understanding how to work around the product, the negatives (e.g. viewing cone, you have to position the screen so that the light is not infront of the screen) etc.

I just get the impression, and maybe I'm wrong, that you've gathered data as opposed to tested the hardware out yourself in multiple different use-cases and scenarios. If this is the case, then making concrete advice is... a bit sceptical IMO.

 

[pbc]

Sorry, didn't mean for this to turn into a contentious thread. Have found both of your opinions valuable, and will look into ALR in general.

Have sent some pics of the space to EluneVision just to get their opinion. Part of me is tempted based on all of this to just go with an 85" LCD (albeit, LCD's have their own pros/cons and compromises), but have always wondered if I could have an enjoyable setup with "just" a projection screen as the main display. Even though it's not a dedicated theater environment and does have a white ceiling, and pot lights on when folks are over when we do "non critical viewing", was hoping I could have something that was pretty decent for that, but outstanding for when the lights are off given, again, not a dedicated theater, but controllable lighting and dark walls.

Heck, even on my main upstairs display, the "end all and be all" OLED, I ended up with CNN burnt into my bottom right corner which thankfully LG replaced well outside of the warranty period, so all displays have their compromises.

 

[noob00224]

So, you haven't used an ALR screen? I think sometimes it good value to know if someone has used a product or not or whether they're just gathering data form forums and regurgitating it.

I find it very strange that you are dodging very clear, very easy to answer questions. Its easy to say 'No I have not used an ALR screen in my setup but I like to give advice from what I have googled and what I've heard from other people' or 'Yes I've owned 3 ALR screens, used it with 3 projectors and in 2 different home cinema circumstances'. Why not be honest and clear rather than speaking like a politcian with this very simple question? I'm utterly confused.

The reason is because although 'facts' and numbers are great.. they don't tell the full picture which is the qualitative improvement of a specific product on a home cinema chain.

For example with an ALR screen, its balancing the convienance, the ambient light rejection, the improvement of the casual home cinema experience by it having to be able to reject ambient light AND reflective light around the room, the perceived contrast improvement which is darastic in an untreated room etc. Alongside this its understanding how to work around the product, the negatives (e.g. viewing cone, you have to position the screen so that the light is not infront of the screen) etc.

I just get the impression, and maybe I'm wrong, that you've gathered data as opposed to tested the hardware out yourself in multiple different use-cases and scenarios. If this is the case, then making concrete advice is... a bit sceptical IMO.

I didn't say I don't. That's not the point. You don't have to own something to know how it works. That's a fallacy. And I'm not going to argue this point. If you want to research the ALR topic feel free to do so. Unless you won't believe anything unless you own it youself.
I don't know why you have that perception about ALRs and brightness. There could be many things that could cause the issue you've experienced, including your perception and understanding of how artifacts manifest. In my opinion it's not debatable that increasing the brightness on a projector will exacerbate any existing artifacts.

Anyway I've had my say on what would be best for this setup.

 

[DunMunro]

Sorry, didn't mean for this to turn into a contentious thread. Have found both of your opinions valuable, and will look into ALR in general.

Have sent some pics of the space to EluneVision just to get their opinion. Part of me is tempted based on all of this to just go with an 85" LCD (albeit, LCD's have their own pros/cons and compromises), but have always wondered if I could have an enjoyable setup with "just" a projection screen as the main display. Even though it's not a dedicated theater environment and does have a white ceiling, and pot lights on when folks are over when we do "non critical viewing", was hoping I could have something that was pretty decent for that, but outstanding for when the lights are off given, again, not a dedicated theater, but controllable lighting and dark walls.

Heck, even on my main upstairs display, the "end all and be all" OLED, I ended up with CNN burnt into my bottom right corner which thankfully LG replaced well outside of the warranty period, so all displays have their compromises.

Almost all my web browsing in done via projector on a ~145in screen, which I'm doing right now with the blinds only partially closed (just to keep the sun off the screen wall) and I'm only putting about 1000 lumens on screen via my HC1040 with ~9500 hrs on the bulb. Being able to sit in your favourite armchair and browse the web, is the only way to go, and even an 85in TV doesn't cut it.

 

[AV_Integrated]

I've seen the Elite Black Diamond, DaLite Parrallax, DNP Supernova, and a couple of others.

I've been to trade shows to see them as well as have seen them installed in professional applications.

In all cases, the screens suffered at least somewhat from hot spotting, image uniformity issues, and sparkling.

These issues are not insignificant when you are talking about trying to get the best image in a room which can simply close a door and turn the lights down. In situations where people are watching a movie (critical viewing) there is rarely a time when the room lights need to be on, and simply turning on a low-level directional light at the back of the room will not significantly impact the on-screen image. The key is to have directional lighting away from the screen in a dark room to leave excellent results in place.

Keep in mind the price differential between a ALR screen like a Black Diamond and a standard white high quality screen can be $1,000+. This isn't a small matter to consider.
Also bear in mind that if there is sparkling, hotspotting, and image uniformity issues, those aren't going to go away when you turn out the lights. In fact, creating 'ideal' movie viewing watching conditions will only make those issues more prevalent.

I swear, there is NO WAY I would ever recommend a ALR screen to someone who can just make their theater dark. It's find for a living room. For a rec room with windows. But in an actual theater space where light can be controlled? I just don't get it.

I'm stepping out of the conversation as the ALR fanatics continue to try to play down how things like sparkling in your image don't actually matter. I'm going to go take a baseball bat to my LCD and tell my family that the giant cracks I've created are just part of the experience. (/sarcasm)

Really, if the goal is the best image possible, then the experts at DaLite, Draper, and Stewart will tell you to put a white screen into a good room and call it a day. With that being their top statement not coming from the marketing department, then perhaps that should actually be the top talking point goal instead of the ALR marketing machine. If you like your ALR screen, great, but please be honest about how it negatively impacts your image.

The only video I've seen online of a ALR screen with the camera moving around, clearly shows the hotspotting issue which ALR screens are notorious for.

 

[pbc]

After all this discussion I'm leaning heavily to an 85" LCD, as I have a feeling I will be set up for disappointment otherwise (or go with a dual setup, and rarely ever use the screen and end up dumping thousands on something that is used once a month).

I did reach out to EluneVision, and have received zero responses despite sending followups.

 

[AV_Integrated]

After all this discussion I'm leaning heavily to an 85" LCD, as I have a feeling I will be set up for disappointment otherwise (or go with a dual setup, and rarely ever use the screen and end up dumping thousands on something that is used once a month).

I will say, that if this is a 'primary' viewing area where you have it on every single day, then you may prefer a flat panel. It's easier for sure.

But, this is what a cheap w1070 projector looks like with some uncontrolled lights on in the room and a standard 1.3 gain screen at 161" diagonal.

W1070 With The Lights On - 161" Screen

This question seems to come up from people all the time, or a variation of the question, so I decided to take some photos. These were just taken with my phone. Scenario: W1070, about 16' from a 161" diagonal 1.3 gain Draper screen. Basement (photo for reference) that is unfinished with...

www.avsforum.com

Keep in mind newer projectors can be a bit brighter and your screen is about half the size (square inches) so it will be far brighter.

We use a 85" flat panel in our family room, and we do like it. But, it's not home theater. When we go to home theater, we go to the basement and the 161" setup and we love it. Flat out. It is significantly better as an experience at 4 times the size than the flat panel. We can turn the lights on, which I do for non-critical viewing sometimes. Watched the superbowl that way. Some hockey and other sports. But, we do have the light that is nearest the screen off. It's just important to use the proper lights and not have lights right near the screen as that's where things get nasty. But, you can have a ton of light on in a room if you care enough to want it.

If you don't care, then get a TV, but know that it will never really be a home theater. It's just not. It will always feel like watching a TV.
Worth a look (maybe)...

Lighting Impact On Screen Image Quality - AV Integrated