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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know that both of these televisions are not out as of yet but I know that some of you have seen them at Cedia and also have had some experience with their technologies and have some may have previous models from last year.


I am just looking for some pros and cons and some advice since I am about to drop 5K on a television.


Here is what interest me in no particular order, and let me know if I am mistaken.


Standard Definition = the 65HLX83 looks better than the improved 65813 because it scales everything to 1080P


Resolution = Tosh is better because of the 3 chips that display more than full HD but the mitsu has 9" CRTs which come very close


High Definition = Close but most agree that the toshiba picture is still probably the best available on a commercial set.


Convenience = Toshiba becuase it is lighter and requires no maintenance (no drift, burn in)


Contrast = The mitsu should be better because it is CRT based? This is where I get confused because to me black level = images that look more 3 dimensional and real and not washed out. How does do blacks look in the toshiba vs other technologies including DLP and LCD?


Finally if you don't want to get too technical because you have explained these things too many times then just tell me which would you pick?


Thanks guys!
 

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Based on last years model of the LCoS, as well as last years and what's out of this years Mitsu's I would have to take a careful look at each set in action to decide. Last years LCoS's looked great to me, and the 73711 looked fantastic as well, I would have to spend some time with each of the new models to make a decision, but I can say your choice seems logical to my eyes. If I had the money I would be considering the same two sets most likely.

One factor to consider is that the 65813 will not accept a 720p signal in any way shape or form, limiting the resolution of some X-Box games. If you are an X-Box gamer that might be a consideration for you (Sega NBA Basketball, Soul Caliber 2 and a few others support 720p, but not 1080i).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I read somewhere that the toshiba upconvert everything to 1080P. What effect does this have on


A) Standard quality signals (direct tv and cable)


B) Good Sources like DVDs 480P


C) High Definition sources (wouldn't be better left alone and unconverted?)
 

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Good Advice. I am not at all satisfied with the SD PQ of the 73711. However, beautiful HD picture as well as DVD.


An integrated tuner is a must as far as I am concerned for reasons posted elsewhere; namely, convenience and ability to record and playback flawlessly via firewire.
 

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It's a fixed pixel display so it has to convert everything to 1920x1080. I think you have to view 4x3 DVD's, Anamorphic DVD's and SDTV as well as HDTV on each set, using material you are familiar with. That will be the only way to make an educated and informed decision between the two. If I had to GUESS I would say the mitsu should do better (scaling wise) with SDTV and DVD's than the toshiba, based on the fact that it is not a fixed pixel size/count technology. But others have expressed displeasure with last years Mitsus and SDTV, so there's no way to tell unless you check them both out yourself.


I would wait until I could test each one myself, I would take a couple of familiar DVD's (at least one 4x3 and one anamorphic) and AVIA with me, I would do basic picture settings on each set then compare the dvd's I am familiar with. I would also look at whatever local SDTV and HDTV signals the store has to offer.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by uzun
But others have expressed displeasure with last years Mitsus and SDTV, so there's no way to tell unless you check them both out yourself.
Last year's. No longer an issue with this year's models (AMVP), which will include the Diamond.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What about the standard definition on the tosh lcos? I have heard that the upconversion is great from some people and then not so great for other people. From what I read:


1) It does a phenomenal job with 480P into 1080P


2) It does a phenomenal job with 1080i into 1080P


3) It does a poor job with 720P (how can it do good for 480P and not for 720P????)


4) I haven't read much about 480i from satelite or cable although it was recommended to let the satelite receiver upscale to 1080i and then let the tv take it from there. Howerver, what about digital cable signals that must be converted from 480i?


Can anyone comment on my findings from their experience with the tv?
 

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As a Tosh LCoS owner I can verify that a double conversion:

(720p->1080i externally, 1080i->1080p internal)

looks noticeably better than a one-step 720p->1080p conversion

by the Tosh.

I agree that it's strange, but that's the way it is.

Other LCoS owners have agreed.

I did have someone argue that Gary Merson said otherwise in his

review of the 57HLX82, but Merson himself ended up posting in that

thread, and said his review didn't explicitly address the 720p scaling

capabilities of the set, only the 480i/480p abilities. And he tends to

believe the evidence that the set's handling of 720p just isn't as good

as the scaling capabilities of the average STB for example.


Have any other Tosh LCoS owners done the same head-to-head 720p

PQ comparisons that I have?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Point take on the 720P conversion but how does the convertion of regular 480i compara to the scaling of sets both CRTs, LCDs and DLPs?


The problem is that I am trying to decide between the mitsu and the tosh and the toshiba wins in all other categories but I want to know which one is better for upconverting displaying standard signals from digital cable.
 

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Do you guys know the expected pricing on the 65813?


Also, in the owner's manual, it shows that the computer has a VGA connection, but that the maximum supported resolution is only 640x480. Specifically states that SVGA and XVGA are not supported. What a bummer given the resolution this puppy should be able to produce. I'm guessing something could be done with Powerstrip, though.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by zvogt
As a Tosh LCoS owner I can verify that a double conversion:

(720p->1080i externally, 1080i->1080p internal)

looks noticeably better than a one-step 720p->1080p conversion

by the Tosh.
Apparently no different than the 65813. Here is a direct quote from the owner's manual:


InputDTV

This input is compatible with most standard DTV and

satellite receivers with component video (YPbPr)

outputs. Compatible DTV signals are SDTV 480i/480p,

and HDTV 1080i. All other DTV signals, such as 720p,

need to be converted by the DTV receiver to one of the

compatible signal types. Please check the DTV receiver

specifications before connecting.


This input is compatible with some DTV receivers using

RGB with “separate H and V syncâ€. Compatible DTV

signals are SDTV 480i, 480p, and HDTV 1080i. All

other DTV signals, such as 720p, need to be converted

by the DTV receiver to one of the compatible signal

types. Industry standards for DTV RGB signals

(systems, synchronization, timing, and signal strengths)

are not currently established. These inputs will not be

compatible with all DTV receivers that offer RGB, HV

outputs. RGB, HV signals with less than 5 cables are

not compatible.

If your DTV receiver offers both DTV component video

signals and DTV RGB, HV signals, we suggest you use

the DTV component video signals. Check the DTV

receiver specifications before connecting.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pilder1000
But how do these tvs compare handling 480i?
Sorry, can't help you there. I haven't seen either TV live and in person. Perhaps someone like Rogo could chime in as he seems to have the connections to get to see all these new items.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bongo100
Apparently no different than the 65813. Here is a direct quote from the owner's manual:
I assume you're talking about the 65H83??

But either way, you're almost certainly talking about a CRT based set,

not a fixed pixed display, so it's a very apples-n-oranges comparison.

The CRTs physically can't display a 720p scan rate.

That's different than the 1080p sets which convert all signals to that

native 1080p number, but just happens to convert 720p poorly.


And as for 480i. I originally had my old E* receiver connected to my

LCoS thru an S-video input, but at some point heard that I should try

running it thru my Samsung STB first. I now have all my SD sources

running thru my SIR-T165 and let it scale them to 1080i. The LCoS

just does the final deinterlacing step, and the pic looks better to my eyes

than when I ran to the LCoS directly.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by zvogt
I assume you're talking about the 65H83??

But either way, you're almost certainly talking about a CRT based set,

not a fixed pixed display, so it's a very apples-n-oranges comparison.

The CRTs physically can't display a 720p scan rate.

That's different than the 1080p sets which convert all signals to that

native 1080p number, but just happens to convert 720p poorly.
Actually, It was the 65813 owner's manual. Your same logic applies, however, as it is still CRT based (I'm assuming the 9" guns wouldn't affect the logic, although they do allow for greater resolution, so maybe they would be capable).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What about cable where you can't upconvert to 1080i? How does it look compared to the pioneer sets or even regular toshiba 65HX series sets?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by zvogt
I assume you're talking about the 65H83??
Oops. Duh. I'm an idiot. You were talking about the Mits,

and my brain was stuck trying to morph that into a Toshiba

model number.
 

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All,


I've been waiting for the 65" Toshiba LCos all summer, but finally gave up after talking to a few different reps at onecall. They couldn't give any estimate as to when the TV would be produced -- defintely after Christmas. I had my order in and finally decided to pull it.


Another thing that scared me off was that tweaters are no longer carrying the line :(


I believe in the technology and wish Toshiba would appropriately communicate when their stuff is going to be delivered.


Bummer.


Christopher
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pilder1000
How does it look compared to the pioneer sets or even regular toshiba 65HX series sets?
I'm not really in a position to judge, because I haven't seen the sets

running side by side. But I'm confident that there are people in the forum

whose eyes have seen way more images displayed on many more screens

than mine have. And I'd trust their opinions.

All I can say is that LCoS as a technology (independent of Toshiba's

implementation of the technology) produces *stunning* PQ, and it's

hard to imagine that you'd be disappointed with any 1920x1080 image,

even if it involves a mediocre scaling step in the image path.

But that's my biased non-professional opinion, so it's worth nothing.
 
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