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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I had just about decided on the 60†Sony KDF-E60A20 after comparing it to the new and previous Samsung DLP TVs but then I came across the differences between the Sony A10 and A20 models. This threw a wrench in my plan as I scoured through hundreds and hundreds of posts on this forum which talked about the differences and opinions of the two. What was I to do but pack up the Xbox yet AGAIN to go testing? Off I went to Tweeter.


First off, for those who might not have researched it I’ll point out the differences between the A10 and A20 systems.


• A20 has higher resolution LCDs (maybe improper terms but what I get out of it)

• A10s have the new Dynamic Iris system that adjusts the light and shadows according to what is being shown

• A10 has an extra component input and it is at the front left side of the unit.

• A10 has the VGA input for PCs and other devices that use this (my Direct TV RCA HDTV Receiver uses it.)



Now to the testing, which I spent a couple of hours or more to do. A few of the other posters who are gamers had mentioned that they saw a difference in the shadow detail between the two sets, especially on dark maps. I hooked my Xbox up to the KDF-E60A20 first to give Halo 2 another whirl since I did like the PQ and the NO LAG of it when pitting it against the Samsung 1080p latency problematic TV. Again I was impressed with the blacks and the detail. I then went to Warlock, which is the darkest map on Halo 2. For those who know about Halo 2 I’ll explain how I tested. I first jumped up on the center island where the invisible power up is. From here you can take a great look at most of the map. I looked very closely at the darker areas under the ramps and in the doorways that have the teleports in them. I noticed that the teleport are seemed a bit dark to me compared to what I am used to at home on my 58†Pioneer Elite RPTV. It didn’t look drastic like the problems I notice with the Samsung and the scope area being drastically dark outside the main square but it just looked a little on the dark side. I then check out all of the weapons just to see how they looked. I also did some fast side to side motions to look for motion blur. All of the weapons looked awesome and the motion blur might have been there but if so it is very minimal. I had another guy who happened to be looking at the Sony A10s and A20s help me with another set of eyes on things. Heheh, it’s funny because his wife looked a little angry about it for the entire time. She wanted him to buy the dumb TV and go. LOL! Anyway, he pretty much had the same opinion and was over all impressed with the TV. I then checked several others of the brighter maps and got plenty of “oohhhâ€s and “Ahhhâ€s from others walking by. Everything looked great in my opinion.

I packed up my stuff and moved to the KDF-E50A10. It was so handy to have the components right on the front side of the TV. They are hidden enough to not be noticeable yet accessible. Very nice. I fired up the Xbox and went to Warlock again. To my surprise I saw a difference. I could see it the easiest as I stood in the middle and looked at the teleport area. It was quite a bit brighter and you could make out the detail better (the door frame, etc.). The other guy didn’t really notice until I pointed it out but he did tend to agree after I looked over it a few times. I might would have thought that they simply had this TV set brighter than the other one but that wasn’t the case. The blacks looked just as black but the shadows seemed to be handled better in some cases. I looked around the other areas of the map and notice the same thing in a couple of the darker shadow areas. I then went to some of the other maps and once again the “oohh†and “Ahhh†sound effects started coming from those who were watching. Actually I made Tweeter a sale right on the spot. I had just been to Fry’s and sent these people to Tweeter. They were considering several TVs but after they heard me talk about the Sony and watched me demo Halo 2 they decided on the Sony A10 and was gone before I was done! Anyway, all of the greatness of the A20 was still there on the brighter maps. There was the same amount of possible motion blur. Like I said, if it is there it is minor.


I then tested out some DVDs and played around with the iris settings. At first glance I could see how someone might think that it was simply a brightness tweak up or down but it really isn’t. Yes, when you change the level (1-5) you see it go from darker to brighter but it is what you see when you aren’t adjusting the setting that matters (as in my Halo 2 test). To be honest I couldn’t see the much of a difference when viewing DVD content but the TVs weren’t side by side. I guess I KNOW Halo 2 so I know every inch of the maps to look for differences. If I didn’t do the Halo 2 test I’m not sure I would have noticed but I didn’t have a set scene where I could really stare at something. At times I think I could see a difference but it is hard for me to be sure. If I spent hours more testing I think I would be able to find dozens of ways to point out that the dynamic iris does indeed make a difference but I only had so much time and so many movies to look at.


The HD feed to the TVs looked equally impressive on both sets but it is hard to tell because they rarely have anything that has a lot of dark scenes. They like the TVs bright and flashy.


My conclusion was this. You get a price drop, an extra component input, a VGA input that the A20 doesn’t have, and the better blacks due to the dynamic iris if you go with the A10. I gave up the inches and bought the 50†A10 unit. I’m really disappointed with the way Sony handled things with this line of sets. If the 55†would have had the extra inputs then I would have had a much more difficult time choosing. It is very disappointing to see what seems like the same line but just a bigger size and then it is lacking. That being said, I would recommend the A20s in a heartbeat to anyone who really wanted the bigger size. It is an awesome TV and I think most anyone would be happy with it. If you are right on the fence about size then it is a no brainer to get the 50†A10. Just my 2 cents. I hope this helped someone out. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if people want but I won’t likely be making another trip to pester the Tweeter guys. My TV will be delivered on Thursday! :) Oh, another 2 cents. The Sony stands don't look that great. Do yourself a favor and spend the same amount of money to get something that will look great for many TVs to come.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kainan
Well I had just about decided on the 60†Sony KDF-E60A20 after comparing it to the new and previous Samsung DLP TVs but then I came across the differences between the Sony A10 and A20 models. This threw a wrench in my plan as I scoured through hundreds and hundreds of posts on this forum which talked about the differences and opinions of the two. What was I to do but pack up the Xbox yet AGAIN to go testing? Off I went to Tweeter.


First off, for those who might not have researched it I’ll point out the differences between the A10 and A20 systems.


• A20 has higher resolution LCDs (maybe improper terms but what I get out of it)

• A10s have the new Dynamic Iris system that adjusts the light and shadows according to what is being shown

• A10 has an extra component input and it is at the front left side of the unit.

• A10 has the VGA input for PCs and other devices that use this (my Direct TV RCA HDTV Receiver uses it.)



Now to the testing, which I spent a couple of hours or more to do. A few of the other posters who are gamers had mentioned that they saw a difference in the shadow detail between the two sets, especially on dark maps. I hooked my Xbox up to the KDF-E60A20 first to give Halo 2 another whirl since I did like the PQ and the NO LAG of it when pitting it against the Samsung 1080p latency problematic TV. Again I was impressed with the blacks and the detail. I then went to Warlock, which is the darkest map on Halo 2. For those who know about Halo 2 I’ll explain how I tested. I first jumped up on the center island where the invisible power up is. From here you can take a great look at most of the map. I looked very closely at the darker areas under the ramps and in the doorways that have the teleports in them. I noticed that the teleport are seemed a bit dark to me compared to what I am used to at home on my 58†Pioneer Elite RPTV. It didn’t look drastic like the problems I notice with the Samsung and the scope area being drastically dark outside the main square but it just looked a little on the dark side. I then check out all of the weapons just to see how they looked. I also did some fast side to side motions to look for motion blur. All of the weapons looked awesome and the motion blur might have been there but if so it is very minimal. I had another guy who happened to be looking at the Sony A10s and A20s help me with another set of eyes on things. Heheh, it’s funny because his wife looked a little angry about it for the entire time. She wanted him to buy the dumb TV and go. LOL! Anyway, he pretty much had the same opinion and was over all impressed with the TV. I then checked several others of the brighter maps and got plenty of “oohhhâ€s and “Ahhhâ€s from others walking by. Everything looked great in my opinion.

I packed up my stuff and moved to the KDF-E50A10. It was so handy to have the components right on the front side of the TV. They are hidden enough to not be noticeable yet accessible. Very nice. I fired up the Xbox and went to Warlock again. To my surprise I saw a difference. I could see it the easiest as I stood in the middle and looked at the teleport area. It was quite a bit brighter and you could make out the detail better (the door frame, etc.). The other guy didn’t really notice until I pointed it out but he did tend to agree after I looked over it a few times. I might would have thought that they simply had this TV set brighter than the other one but that wasn’t the case. The blacks looked just as black but the shadows seemed to be handled better in some cases. I looked around the other areas of the map and notice the same thing in a couple of the darker shadow areas. I then went to some of the other maps and once again the “oohh†and “Ahhh†sound effects started coming from those who were watching. Actually I made Tweeter a sale right on the spot. I had just been to Fry’s and sent these people to Tweeter. They were considering several TVs but after they heard me talk about the Sony and watched me demo Halo 2 they decided on the Sony A10 and was gone before I was done! Anyway, all of the greatness of the A20 was still there on the brighter maps. There was the same amount of possible motion blur. Like I said, if it is there it is minor.


I then tested out some DVDs and played around with the iris settings. At first glance I could see how someone might think that it was simply a brightness tweak up or down but it really isn’t. Yes, when you change the level (1-5) you see it go from darker to brighter but it is what you see when you aren’t adjusting the setting that matters (as in my Halo 2 test). To be honest I couldn’t see the much of a difference when viewing DVD content but the TVs weren’t side by side. I guess I KNOW Halo 2 so I know every inch of the maps to look for differences. If I didn’t do the Halo 2 test I’m not sure I would have noticed but I didn’t have a set scene where I could really stare at something. At times I think I could see a difference but it is hard for me to be sure. If I spent hours more testing I think I would be able to find dozens of ways to point out that the dynamic iris does indeed make a difference but I only had so much time and so many movies to look at.


The HD feed to the TVs looked equally impressive on both sets but it is hard to tell because they rarely have anything that has a lot of dark scenes. They like the TVs bright and flashy.


My conclusion was this. You get a price drop, an extra component input, a VGA input that the A20 doesn’t have, and the better blacks due to the dynamic iris if you go with the A10. I gave up the inches and bought the 50†A10 unit. I’m really disappointed with the way Sony handled things with this line of sets. If the 55†would have had the extra inputs then I would have had a much more difficult time choosing. It is very disappointing to see what seems like the same line but just a bigger size and then it is lacking. That being said, I would recommend the A20s in a heartbeat to anyone who really wanted the bigger size. It is an awesome TV and I think most anyone would be happy with it. If you are right on the fence about size then it is a no brainer to get the 50†A10. Just my 2 cents. I hope this helped someone out. I’ll be glad to answer any questions if people want but I won’t likely be making another trip to pester the Tweeter guys. My TV will be delivered on Thursday! :) Oh, another 2 cents. The Sony stands don't look that great. Do yourself a favor and spend the same amount of money to get something that will look great for many TVs to come.
Very nice review. Appreciate the time and effort you've expended. Thanks:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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Originally Posted by gazelle
Very nice review. Appreciate the time and effort you've expended. Thanks:)
No problem gazelle. I figure I've gotten so much from these forums that I should give something back. This is one awesome site.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kainan
No problem gazelle. I figure I've gotten so much from these forums that I should give something back. This is one awesome site.


Yes it is!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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Originally Posted by Captain Kirt 87w
Im not as impressed by the blacks
To each their own on that one man. They looked great to me and several others who seemed to end up buying Sony RPLCDs. Different people have different likes and dislikes. I mean, when I started this hunt I was dead set on the Samsung 1080p and thought it was my dream TV. As I sit here now I wouldn't recommend it to a single gamer I know. My point being that I wanted DLP to be the TV for me. It just didn't work out that way. I went with what I liked and have tried to describe in my opinion what my eyes saw. If everyone liked the same thing then we would either have DLPs or RPLCDs and not both (or Plasma but that has burn in).
 

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Very impressed and thankful for the review Kainan, I wish there were more people on this forum who gave reviews like this, although I too think this is a very informative sight nonetheless.


I am very close to pulling the trigger on the 50" A10 but am waiting for the new toshiba 720p and 1080p sets to roll out. I am also waiting to see if the A10 drops in price in the next several months as the post on the homepage of this site suggested. Would it be too much to ask if you might give the same sort of tests with the new toshibas when they come out? I find your review very informative and unbiased and would be very interested to hear your findings on gaming lag, blacks, contrast, etc. on the new toshibas. This would greatly affect my purchase decision in the coming months on a new television set.
 

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Great review. I didn't go through the same lengths to examine both tvs but I purchased a 50a10 friday and have logged about 12 hours on halo 2 since then. I absolutely agree with you on all of the points you made and bought the a10 because of the image and extra features.
 

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kainan - I noticed considerable lag playing madden '06 on the 50a10....I do however have my ps2 connected via the RF cable (i know i know, but it didn't make a difference on my 27" set and components are on the way if this darn ebay seller ever ships it). did you have any problems w/ ps2 (if you have it)?


Would RF cables cause such a problem?
 

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Got an A20 today and I'm seriously bummed about how dark the game looks. If this is how all games are going to look (Tiger Woods 2005 is kind of dark too), then I may have joined the LCD revolution too early.
 

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Fantastic review--you just sold an A10!!! I was pretty close to a decision based on viewings of the 650's(the A10's arent here in Canada yet) and you post just confirmed what I fiugred/hoped. I'm heading to the US tomorrow for some shopping so hopefully I'll get to see it up close and personal but I'd be happy with a 650, so if the A10's an actual step up I'm sold.


Thanks very much for the gamers point of view--it's nice to read in depth feedback on gaming on these Tv's as that is one of my primary uses for the set but most feedback is HDTV/DVD viewing. I was like you and started out wanting DLP's to be the TV for me but for other reasons than the lag I passed. It was down to the JVC DILA's but due to the grey bars on 4:3 the WAF was a negative as well as a few other issues. So that left me at square one until I read the mega thread about the A10's. My only remaining question was XBOX with these sets and you just put that to rest!!!


Can't wait for them to hit here in Canada--hopefully they'll start out at a decent price or I'll have to wait till the post XMAS sales(which would KILL ME!)


thanks again--great job!

JASON
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice1874193
kainan - I noticed considerable lag playing madden '06 on the 50a10....I do however have my ps2 connected via the RF cable (i know i know, but it didn't make a difference on my 27" set and components are on the way if this darn ebay seller ever ships it). did you have any problems w/ ps2 (if you have it)?


Would RF cables cause such a problem?
I have been using the A10 for PS2 games, both progressive enabled titles and the standard stuff, and haven't noticed any lag whatsoever. I have it connected via the component cables.


Kai
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC1ark
Fantastic review--you just sold an A10!!! I was pretty close to a decision based on viewings of the 650's(the A10's arent here in Canada yet) and you post just confirmed what I fiugred/hoped. I'm heading to the US tomorrow for some shopping so hopefully I'll get to see it up close and personal but I'd be happy with a 650, so if the A10's an actual step up I'm sold.


Thanks very much for the gamers point of view--it's nice to read in depth feedback on gaming on these Tv's as that is one of my primary uses for the set but most feedback is HDTV/DVD viewing. I was like you and started out wanting DLP's to be the TV for me but for other reasons than the lag I passed. It was down to the JVC DILA's but due to the grey bars on 4:3 the WAF was a negative as well as a few other issues. So that left me at square one until I read the mega thread about the A10's. My only remaining question was XBOX with these sets and you just put that to rest!!!


Can't wait for them to hit here in Canada--hopefully they'll start out at a decent price or I'll have to wait till the post XMAS sales(which would KILL ME!)


thanks again--great job!

JASON


Typical friking frigid and reserved Canadian .... you joined in the Fall of 2004 and this is WOW...let me see again....your SECOND friking post!

;)

You should have growed up in Scarberia like I did and then you would not be verbally challenged :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ice1874193
kainan - I noticed considerable lag playing madden '06 on the 50a10....I do however have my ps2 connected via the RF cable (i know i know, but it didn't make a difference on my 27" set and components are on the way if this darn ebay seller ever ships it). did you have any problems w/ ps2 (if you have it)?


Would RF cables cause such a problem?
This is a tough one. I mean, I haven't used the RF cable for so long that I can't remember. I don't even have the hookup for that. I just traded in my PS2 and games towards the 360. I hadn't played it for about 2 years other than a game every now and then for my son so I figured I had better get would I could for it now.


One thing that I can tell you is that, strangely enough, I noticed that the A10 didn't do near as well on 480i. One awesome thing about my Elite is that it has such a good converter (interlace and 3:2 pull down) that I honestly couldn't see any difference between my Denon 480i signal and when I turned it on progressive mode. Now, games are a different story for some reason. My Elite showed a pretty significant PQ improvement with games. Anyway, the RPLCD TVs that I've seen seem to have a more difficult time producing a great pic when comparing to my Elite and using a 480i DVD signal.


AndStill,


I can't make any promises but if you will send me a PM when the Toshibas come out then I will try to do the same test. You will need to send me a PM so I will get an email from the site though.
 

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Myself and a couple of my buddies played about 15 hours of Forza Motorsport (amazing racing game on Xbox) on my E42A10 this weekend, and loved every minute of it. 16:9 is great for split screen (top/bottom) racing.
 

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I finally got my ebay component cables in today...they are better than the RF cables but the PQ is still pretty crappy. Everything is sharp on the game except the players - on the outside of everyone it looks very pixelated. i'm playing madden '06 on ps2. anyone else having this issue? I also tried the game setting and got the same result
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice1874193
I finally got my ebay component cables in today...they are better than the RF cables but the PQ is still pretty crappy. Everything is sharp on the game except the players - on the outside of everyone it looks very pixelated. i'm playing madden '06 on ps2. anyone else having this issue? I also tried the game setting and got the same result
The try madden with an xbox, It displays less jaggies than a PS2, it not the TV.
 
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