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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, after 1 1/2 months of hand wringing, sending motherboard back to Zipzoom for replacement (who suck btw- refused to replace and would only ship back to MSI for me) and then just bringing the whole thing down to a local store who managed to fix the whole deal for $60 (sweet!). Installing Vista x64 is no fun either, I had to do the one-part-at-a-time deal. Does anyone know of where to locate a legitimate Vista x64 DVD integrated w/SP1? I bought mine so no cracked copies please.


Anyhow, I have a 780i based nVidia board and wonder what I should upgrade? I'm running my old E6600 from my old machine, 4Gigs PC5300, and a single 8800GT 512mb (G92). 8800GT 512mb are pretty cheap now and can be found for ~$125-$140AR, so should I just get two more of those or should I think about upgrading to a faster card or faster CPU/memory?
 

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Personally I'd sell it and get a 360....but you know thats me.


Honestly at this point it kinda depends what you want to do that you can't do now.


Any games out there that just chug for you right now? How deep is your wallet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is the HTPC gaming forum, not the XBOX forum, I'm not interested in one, as I already have a PS3 anyways.


As far as games go, yeah, even Crysis has sort of a hard time running on my setup, so for
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi /forum/post/14346026


Anyhow, I have a 780i based nVidia board and wonder what I should upgrade? I'm running my old E6600 from my old machine, 4Gigs PC5300, and a single 8800GT 512mb (G92). 8800GT 512mb are pretty cheap now and can be found for ~$125-$140AR, so should I just get two more of those or should I think about upgrading to a faster card or faster CPU/memory?


Since u already have an SLI mobo...then go SLI if u need it. Tri SLI just doesnt scale well currently so three cards will gain very little. BTW the 8800GT's can only do SLI and not tri SLI since it only has one set of golden fingers. But even with SLI 8800GT's Crysis will still be a [email protected] to play at high or ultra high settings at 1920x1200 or above. I know since I am running a system with a [email protected] and SLI GTX280's at 1920x1200rez with the DX9 Ultra high setting hack. Not a chance with the ultra settings with 2560x1600...



BUT...here is the big but...if you dont want to do SLI then get a AMD/ATI 4870, great perf at $300 and with less issues then SLI or Xfire setups. About 80-85% of a GTX280.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi /forum/post/14346026


Ok, after 1 1/2 months of hand wringing, sending motherboard back to Zipzoom for replacement (who suck btw- refused to replace and would only ship back to MSI for me) and then just bringing the whole thing down to a local store who managed to fix the whole deal for $60 (sweet!). Installing Vista x64 is no fun either, I had to do the one-part-at-a-time deal. Does anyone know of where to locate a legitimate Vista x64 DVD integrated w/SP1? I bought mine so no cracked copies please.


Anyhow, I have a 780i based nVidia board and wonder what I should upgrade? I'm running my old E6600 from my old machine, 4Gigs PC5300, and a single 8800GT 512mb (G92). 8800GT 512mb are pretty cheap now and can be found for ~$125-$140AR, so should I just get two more of those or should I think about upgrading to a faster card or faster CPU/memory?

I have nearly the same setup as you, 4GB PC8500 and 8800GT KO being the only differences.


Buy a second 8800GT. They are STILL the best bang for the buck right now and I noticed a very nice performance increase in all of my current games. You still won't get that great Crysis performance, but it makes it even more playable.


Wait for the next gen of GPU's from NVIDIA and ATI, along with Intel's new CPU (new architecture) before doing anything major.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would hope the next-gen Intel CPU works on the 780i platform but I wouldn't expect it to. It's nice I can upgrade to a Quad-Core when I feel like it though.
 

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An additional 8800GT is not a major investment and will hold u over till the next upgrade. Rem DX11 cards are coming...09-10 time frame.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi /forum/post/14346026


Ok, after 1 1/2 months of hand wringing, sending motherboard back to Zipzoom for replacement (who suck btw- refused to replace and would only ship back to MSI for me) and then just bringing the whole thing down to a local store who managed to fix the whole deal for $60 (sweet!).

So, apparently there was never anything wrong with the motherboard, but you are upset with ZipZoomFly for not replacing it regardless?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker /forum/post/14352993


An additional 8800GT is not a major investment and will hold u over till the next upgrade. Rem DX11 cards are coming...09-10 time frame.

DX11...oy vey. Seek help dude!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch /forum/post/14353254


DX11...oy vey. Seek help dude!

no help needed...I can go crazy fine all by myself...with no probm...



No mall intentions: hey Haed if you are so pro consoles, why are u still so intrested with gaming on a PC
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme /forum/post/14353142


So, apparently there was never anything wrong with the motherboard, but you are upset with ZipZoomFly for not replacing it regardless?

Yeah, there was. There was a short in it, but Zipzoom wouldn't replace it because they called it "used". Yeah, it was used, it was me installing it to find out the board didn't work. I tried to reason out their circular logic with the Mgr but they wouldn't budge.. But there is such a thing as customer satisfaction. I only wanted a replacement, not a refund, and they wouldn't even do that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker /forum/post/14353363


no help needed...I can go crazy fine all by myself...with no probm...



No mall intentions: hey Haed if you are so pro consoles, why are u still so intrested with gaming on a PC
.

A deep question...


Because I'm a gamer...I'm not a console gamer, or a PC gamer, I'm a gamer.

A Console is a PC without a keyboard these days...no difference in my book.

I spend almost all of my work and free time involved with a PC of one sort or another, and I love PC games.....just not as much as I used to.


I do believe that at this point in time, its a waste of my money to keep chasing the hardware dragon. I enjoyed Company of Heroes as an RTS, I enjoyed Crysis as a FPS..and I even enjoyed Medal of Honor Airborne as an FPS. But otherwise...I'm seeing alot less come across my PC that is both exclusive and..more importantly...better...on the PC. I spent $500 bucks on my 8800GTX....I had to buy it, I was moving to a 1080p display and wanted horsepower to drive that rez with any game I threw at it. Crysis was the only game so far I have had to drop down in graphics to get it to run at 1080p, so its held me over so far...and it will likely hold me over a little while longer.

While my MB supports SLI, I can't find an 8800GTX to toss in there anymore that isn't price prohibitive...but mostly, I don't have a reason to do so.


My attitude has shifted a bit over the years...where before I thought Consoles were cute but the PC was the only true gaming platform, today I see the PC gaming as sort of....."lost". Like...its kind of staggering under the weight of the consoles that seem to have stole its thunder.


Like the next Half Life game....would I get it on the PC....depends on how much new hardware I'd have to buy to get it to run at its best. So immediately I'd go "Does the console do 720p and 30fps? If so thats perfect for me on a gamepad" and my decision is made.


$500 videocards don't help matters, few quality PC releases is another reason......and gaming at my desk is another matter still....and I've become comfortable with the twin sticks on a pad so that playing a single player FPS is just as enjoyable as playing it with a mouse/keyboard.


But lets take DirectX11. DirectX10 is still giving hardware, current hardware mind you, fits...now they are bringing out 11...its like...so now another round of $500 videocards that get 20fps in DX11 mode? Do we have to wait ANOTHER year for the hardware to catch up? Is DX11 THAT much better looking than DX9? Than DX10? This is where I get that "PC gaming is lost in a fog" feeling..........they're throwing out API's, they're throwing out hardware reelases that dont seem to bring much to the table besides a few more FPS and another $500 out of your wallet.....and for what? High Cost/Low Bargain doesn't sit well with me anymore.


My Radeon 9700 Pro gave me several years of gaming....my 6800GT gave me several more years of great gaming...but my super expensive 8800GTX has given me a couple years of Meh gaming...so I spent a ton of money but didn't get the payoff this time around. The FPS's I have played have been "fun, but not revolutionary". And the one game I really liked, Crysis......doesn't even run good on my rig.


No wait, even better, it wont even run good on *YOUR* rig
So.....after awhile you start asking yourself..."Whats the point here...".

Hence my slightly negative slant towards PC games at this point.


I'm more looking forward to replaying all the Half Life 2 games on my 360 soon than re-playing them on my PC at my desk......(gotta buy orange box used)
 

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Head...thanks for the answer...just curious since it seems that you been pretty neg about PC gaming for a while.


Too bad, gone are the days of the 9700pro (which I still use for the e-mail/web PC) ...that was a great card for its time (expensive in todays dollar when converted). Same as the 8800GTX's last year...too bad they just dont make games to run with current hardware but always pushing the envolop with PC graphics. Even with great looking games like CoD4 and Mass Effect console versions. There is no comparision when you compare any of the console to the PC versions at hi rez. But if you are only going to run at 720/1080 then yeah...the graphics look the same...no question. Once you let the hi rez genie outa the bottle...its hard to get it back in.


About Crysis...think any console can even start up with decent level of eye candy set with that game...



As far as my rig...Crysis was not the reason I built it for. I only picked up Crysis when it was discounted. You prob already know how I feel about Crysis. Hey I am still running on XP and DX9...



Now I am waiting on STALKER: Clear Sky...just hope i dont have to go VISTA and DX10 to play...




ooopppps sorry for going off topic....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just picked up another EVGA 512mb 8800GT for $129AR w/free ship from Newegg. Hard to believe only 6mos ago people were going nuts for these- I paid $260 for mine only 5mos ago.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker /forum/post/14353878


Head...thanks for the answer...just curious since it seems that you been pretty neg about PC gaming for a while.

I dunno if I'm negative on PC games, or just a little more "pro console" than I used to be.


I take issue with folks who still insist that PC gaming is leaps and bounds above what consoles can do however, that kinda bugs me because I honestly don't believe it anymore. You take away resolution, the textures don't look much better on PC games, the AA might be better on a PC but that is, in a way, related to resolution...most console games run 4xAF now.....which is enough to get by at 720p.


And Consoles seem to be much better about adding the visual effects than PC games are....PC games still seem to make HDR look artificial, they make Light Bloom look artificial...consoles seem to make that more seamless looking....although that could also be a result of running at a "lower" resolution like 1280x720.

Quote:
Too bad, gone are the days of the 9700pro (which I still use for the e-mail/web PC) ...that was a great card for its time (expensive in todays dollar when converted). Same as the 8800GTX's last year...too bad they just dont make games to run with current hardware but always pushing the envolop with PC graphics.

Yeah, it seems these days nobody bothers re-using an engine anymore. How many games were built using the Q2 engine...at least a half-dozen big-named games, etc, etc. Its like "we release 2 games a decade now and you'll be upgrading each time!". Oh yeah and I had the 9800 Pro....my mistake, that thing was so bulletproof that when I was lapping the chip and cutting the thermal padding off the little ridge that surrounded the chip I slipped..and accidentally cut off a tiny resistor on the card! I freaked. Then, saying "what the hell" i plugged it in...and it ran fine. It even ran cooler.


But outside of Crysis, the 8800GTX has chewed up everything at 1080p..even Assasins Creed runs fine without cranking up the AA anyhow. But again, if I can get 4xaa I am happy...the dudes running 16xAA and stuff like that I just shake my head at because I honestly dont see the difference, especially when you are talking about the game in-motion and not in screenshots used to compare AA levels.

Quote:
Even with great looking games like CoD4 and Mass Effect console versions. There is no comparision when you compare any of the console to the PC versions at hi rez. But if you are only going to run at 720/1080 then yeah...the graphics look the same...no question. Once you let the hi rez genie outa the bottle...its hard to get it back in.

My PC monitor is 1080p....that is plenty high-rez for me....and the Microsoft and PC versions of Call of Duty 4 look pretty much identical to me, resolution not withstanding....can't comment on mass effect.

Quote:
About Crysis...think any console can even start up with decent level of eye candy set with that game...

No, but Crysis...like FarCry...was developed by a small group of Europeans, so its no wonder it runs like ****
Seriously, we've seen lots of games come out of these "boutique" programming houses overseas where they can spend years adding more and more detail.


Remember how FarCry crippled EVERYONES system for years? Remember how, then they added HDR..and re-crippled everyones system? Crysis is no different...to me Crysis lookslike "Far Cry +".....but thats because I dont play at the ultra-high rez settings which bring me into slideshow territory.


I think if Crytek was handed off to a bigger group they'd find ways to make the system run more efficiently, probably by making a few visual compromises along the way.....I mean for all of Crysis's awesome visuals....the plants that litereally surround you STILL look like a bunch of sprite-based jagged-edged messes!


There is a point where you DONT want to create trees quite "THAT" lifelike because you're burning GPU horsepower on something that ultimately looks lame (lots of tiny leaves with jagged edges). Maybe in 5 more years we can slap some AA on all of those edges and soften them up and still get a playable framerate.

Quote:
Now I am waiting on STALKER: Clear Sky...just hope i dont have to go VISTA and DX10 to play...


ooopppps sorry for going off topic....

Stalker I never played....tried to run it, bogged my old system, never tried it on the new system. Again, another euro-ware game...."looks pretty, runs like Ass". Hmmm....Operation Flashpoint fits in here.......and the list goes on and on
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi /forum/post/14352939


I would hope the next-gen Intel CPU works on the 780i platform but I wouldn't expect it to. It's nice I can upgrade to a Quad-Core when I feel like it though.

The next-gen CPU, code named Nehalem, won't work on the 780i or any current chipset for that matter. Intel is ditching the whole FSB-based system architecture and are going with something that is very similar to the Athlon64/Phenom.
 

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Nehalem requires a new chipset. It is LGA1366 as opposed to LGA775 that Core2Duo uses. If you were to try putting (forcing) a Nehalem CPU into a Penryn board, you would end up with a lot of busted components, and a lot of tears.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch /forum/post/14355941


I dunno if I'm negative on PC games, or just a little more "pro console" than I used to be.


I take issue with folks who still insist that PC gaming is leaps and bounds above what consoles can do however, that kinda bugs me because I honestly don't believe it anymore. You take away resolution, the textures don't look much better on PC games, the AA might be better on a PC but that is, in a way, related to resolution...most console games run 4xAF now.....which is enough to get by at 720p.


And Consoles seem to be much better about adding the visual effects than PC games are....PC games still seem to make HDR look artificial, they make Light Bloom look artificial...consoles seem to make that more seamless looking....although that could also be a result of running at a "lower" resolution like 1280x720.




Yeah, it seems these days nobody bothers re-using an engine anymore. How many games were built using the Q2 engine...at least a half-dozen big-named games, etc, etc. Its like "we release 2 games a decade now and you'll be upgrading each time!". Oh yeah and I had the 9800 Pro....my mistake, that thing was so bulletproof that when I was lapping the chip and cutting the thermal padding off the little ridge that surrounded the chip I slipped..and accidentally cut off a tiny resistor on the card! I freaked. Then, saying "what the hell" i plugged it in...and it ran fine. It even ran cooler.


But outside of Crysis, the 8800GTX has chewed up everything at 1080p..even Assasins Creed runs fine without cranking up the AA anyhow. But again, if I can get 4xaa I am happy...the dudes running 16xAA and stuff like that I just shake my head at because I honestly dont see the difference, especially when you are talking about the game in-motion and not in screenshots used to compare AA levels.




My PC monitor is 1080p....that is plenty high-rez for me....and the Microsoft and PC versions of Call of Duty 4 look pretty much identical to me, resolution not withstanding....can't comment on mass effect.




No, but Crysis...like FarCry...was developed by a small group of Europeans, so its no wonder it runs like ****
Seriously, we've seen lots of games come out of these "boutique" programming houses overseas where they can spend years adding more and more detail.


Remember how FarCry crippled EVERYONES system for years? Remember how, then they added HDR..and re-crippled everyones system? Crysis is no different...to me Crysis lookslike "Far Cry +".....but thats because I dont play at the ultra-high rez settings which bring me into slideshow territory.


I think if Crytek was handed off to a bigger group they'd find ways to make the system run more efficiently, probably by making a few visual compromises along the way.....I mean for all of Crysis's awesome visuals....the plants that litereally surround you STILL look like a bunch of sprite-based jagged-edged messes!


There is a point where you DONT want to create trees quite "THAT" lifelike because you're burning GPU horsepower on something that ultimately looks lame (lots of tiny leaves with jagged edges). Maybe in 5 more years we can slap some AA on all of those edges and soften them up and still get a playable framerate.




Stalker I never played....tried to run it, bogged my old system, never tried it on the new system. Again, another euro-ware game...."looks pretty, runs like Ass". Hmmm....Operation Flashpoint fits in here.......and the list goes on and on

Head you are the man, always have been brotha....


By the time the Dreamcast showed up running a Windows OS, consoles had CAUGHT PC's and who wants to sit in front of a 15"-17" monitor when you sit in front of your old 20-27" CRT and while PC games looked pretty, they were hardly better when you compared the major markets for games -


Action, Sports, Racing/Simulation


Yes Sporting games had more control over rosters and the like but Madden with the extra space afforded on a DVD, could match that and then some.


No PC Sim Racer has caught GT/Forza in terms of depth, if you haven't heard of "The Pits" and other hangouts for SIM racers, would you even know about all the mods and car sets available for SIM Racing titles? Nevermind all the confusing installation of said car sets, optional cars and tracks.


Thank goodness I find PC's a bit more interesting that just running around the internet, posting on message boards and reading email... I know what all can be done with say rFactor, but after spending $199 for a PS2 Slim and GT4 I found little need for PC game which required a new graphics card when mine worked fine and had my TV tuner which kept it at ONE slot being used, allowing expansion as needed.


In addition, that new X800 All In Wonder required a new PSU and I wasn't comfortable with spending so MUCH just to play ONE game maybe TWO tops.


Just imagine if I had bought that card, the PSU and still used it... I would have still needed to upgrade the card or the PC to play OTA HD, as until the 2xxx series no ATI card had hardware acceleration of DXVA. When I tired to save my trusty Dell, I bought a Geforce 7600GT, its not that I couldn't afford MORE but that's what I was comfortable spending and found its Pure Video decoders didn't work with Vista. Previously I bought a HD2400 and found UVD was broken in that card, which lead me to the 7600GT. Nevermind the new TV Tuner; I had a Haugpauge first to find I needed the next one up to get the S-video breakout box as I watch TV via Direct TV. I went back to trusted ATI and got a TV Wonder 650. Then when I still couldn't get HW acceleration (Remember Nivida's SLOW development of Pure Video HD Vista Codecs) to work, I took everything but the TV Wonder back and built the current rig, I bought a new Sound Card too hoping to free up CPU usage (had a Sound Blaster Live! OEM before that) and allow smoother OTA HD playback.


That was 3 days of my life wasted just trying to get my TV to work like I wanted, the price of being a technogeek I suppose.


But it was worth it, it cost about the same as trying to save my PC to build a new one and I ended up with a much faster machine overall.


Head -


You already bought a next gen console, I'm still getting plenty of life out of my PS2. I'm in no rush overall, as games like say MGS will be Greatest Hit status by the time GT5 rolls out and I hope by year's end I can finally pull the trigger on a PS3, but likely will have to deal with not having backwards support and keep my PS2 connected to my monitor, I have plenty of inputs, not an issue...


But given the price of a PS3 currently, I have decided since I would like to take some pressure off my CPU even though [email protected] doesn't use more than 25-30% of a single core (watching Women's Volleyball now), a new GPU would reduce that to nothing at all. I'll give PC gaming another shot but making that shot a big one, Race Driver: GRID looks so much better on a PC than it does on a console, nevermind I would have to spend at least $270 for 360 to even play it and sorry but I'm a bit of Sony fanboy and I'll just wait.


Since a ATI HD4870 cost as much as a Xbox 360 core currently, I could more than likely get away with HD4850 as I would like to game at 1920x1200 the new hottness (well I guess 2560x1600 is but, I a 30" screen won't fit my desktop and I'm not upgrading!) and even at $170-180 that's more than I wanna spend on a GPU.


I want to be able to get GRID and the card for less than $180 and that's more than possible, but with fuel prices they way they are and my cut hours at work, that's just too much of a squeeze even if I get paid next week, all the rest of my "****" is due and I'm already into limbo land with late fees, thank goodness I get paid again before that's an real issue.


TigerDirect has the Visiontek HD4850 for $185 with GRID included but shipping will get that uncomfortably close to $200.


NewEgg has the Diamond HD3870 with GRID for $159 and free shipping, but since New Egg is based in Cali, I get charged sales tax and that becomes - $167


I can get a HIS Ice Turbo HD3870 for $124 ($10) A/R from Tiger


I wouldn't mind a 128-bit card, but that's too much 2006 for me and 256-bit cards are standard and even the slowest of them can run most games in at least 720p.


HD36xxx are dirt cheap, well under $100 but when GRID came out the HD3870 was considered top dog (of the ATI cards) and should run it with more mature drivers at my monitors default without any issue especially if I opt not to get a included game and get it off Steam instead.


I'll make one more GPU upgrade if needed with a HD4850x2 and that will more than likely be the final video card I ever purchase unless the interface changes again... but PCI-E should last at least as long as AGP did and you can still build an AGP machine if you HAD too, but we know you wouldn't want too...lol


Alright that's enough, I post long, always do, sorry...
 
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