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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all.


I just purchased a Sony KV34XBR910 and am racking my brains out with all the possibilites of components to purchase. I have some technical questions and hope they can be answered.


I want to get the best quality I can from a DVD player, and definitely want DVI. Does anyone know how well the KV34XBR910 handles the D -> A conversion through the DVI input? My reason for asking is I was wondering if it is possible to get just as good of a signal (or better) from a high-end DVD player hooked up through component.


I have been checking out the Marantz player and some Denon models. I have heard that the Marantz has a better MPEG decoder, while the Denon handles progressive scan better. If this is true, what would the better player be?


So far I am only blown away by the potential of this TV, as I have yet to see a breathtaking image. I want to desperately! I just want to make sure whatever I buy is something I'm going to want for awhile.


Another thing I read recently is that the KV34XBR910 was made specifically for HDTV. I assume this is why DRC (line doubler) is always in use??? Why wouldn't Sony let that be a selectable feature? Doesn't this make 480i signals, especially ones that are not very good quality, look like crap? I played Tetris on the Nintendo 64 and it looked weird. There was an extra line, about one pixel high, above all the pieces.


I guess my main question is, since I want to get the best possible picture from my TV, should I purchase a DVD player, or an HD receiver? And which one? Does anyone know about the new Denon player, the DVD-5900?



Thanks much,

Jesse
 

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Re DRC: DRC modes on Sony sets.


Re the other stuff, what about an HTPC with a MyHD MDP-120 HD Tuner card + DVI daughterboard? This could potentially give you both OTA HD, and DVD via DVI from one box, as well as digital recording of OTA HD. If you're not savvy with computers, an HTPC system builder could probably put this together in a turnkey box.


One drawback to the MDP-120 is that it may not currently be HDCP-compliant.


Another option would be an integrated DVI STB HD Tuner/DVD player. Not sure exactly when those would be available though.


Another possibility, either a DVI Tuner or Player with a DVI pass-through.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by venger
Does anyone know how well the KV34XBR910 handles the D -> A conversion through the DVI input?
In the case of the Samsung T165 I am using component out as opposed to DVI as I do not yet see a difference, nor do I when I output D-Theater thru it. Some people do.


In the case of the Samsung HD931 I am also using component out as I found significant loss of shadow detail using DVI.
 

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Quote:
Does anyone know how well the KV34XBR910 handles the D -> A conversion through the DVI input?


Venger,


If the 910 is at all like the 800, then the D/A conversion on the DVI card is done by the Genesis GM7030 decoder chip which uses 10 bits of resolution for each color.


Unless your STB uses 12 or more bits of resolution in its D/A converters, you're probably better off with a DVI interface.


Entering the 910 via the DVI jack or the 3 components RCA sockets, when in 1080i format, you can avail yourself of the bypass circuit which can be enabled with the HDPT patch that ADU has told us all about in his thread about signal paths in the Sony. We know of no one to date who has patched a 910 set and posted their assessment. You could be the first.


To have Sony patch it for you, you would have to demonstrate the scrolling vertical bar bug on your set. Else, you would have to look up E18728143 in this forum and do it yourself at your own risk.
 

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Quote:
In the case of the Samsung HD931 I am also using component out as I found significant loss of shadow detail using DVI.
Very interesting, Alan Sh. I think I noticed the same thing. Does the 931 do 720p and 1080i from the component outputs?
 

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If you are considering a high-end DVD player with component video output, there is only one model to audition: the Samsung DVD-HD1000. Via 3-RCA component video output you can have 1080i delivered directly and save the DVI connector for your HDTV source. This unit is built like a brick outhouse...almost 40 pounds!!!!


You can only order this piece from Harvey Electronics in New Jersey/New York area. They are the only dealer in the United States that is offering this unit. They will perform a firmware update that will allow for 1080i or 720p to be output using the 3-RCA component video output. A truly unique situtation.

www.harveyelectronics.com


My good friend and myself have the Samsung DVD-HD1000, and he just got the Sony KV-34XBR910 and finished ISF'ing the monitor...HOLY MOLY BATMAN!!!


I am planning on getting the same monitor after seeing the results with his system!!!!
 

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Well, after looking at the review for the Liteon DVD player...I will have to say that it is a truly different beast from the Samsung DVD-HD1000.


While the Liteon allows you to play all of these 'unofficial' formats and the like, the Samsung is a true statement piece regarding the format of DVD. If you compare the construction quality, it would be like looking at an inexpensive vehicle (Kia Rio) versus something substantial (BMW 5 series). No comparison.


The Samsung benefits from the F DCDi 2300 series chipset which is considered to be one of the finest scaler/processors on the market to date.


I can personally atest to to the picture quality and I will say this: I cannot return to 480p, after seeing 1080i on a 34" direct view monitor!
 

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It would seem that the Samsung with the firmware upgrade is more 'stable' than the Bravo D1. Therefore, if you were only considering one of those two, I would encourage you to obtain the Samsung DVD-HD931.


Although, if you plan on getting HDTV (any source: Cable, Sat, Ant) I would save your DVI for that and get the Samsung DVD-HD1000. See the earlier posts in this thread, truly an impressive machine. The LAST NTSC DVD player you will need!!!
 

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Re DVI input, between the 931 & D1, I'd explore the Bravo D1, or consider waiting for some other options to materialize. The Samsung 931 was nice in certain respects, but IMO it just seemed to have a few too many issues.


Subjectively, my PC-based DVD-ROM via DVI seems to work more to my liking than the Samsung 931 in the following areas:


A. More Shadow Detail

B. Less Edginess

C. Few to no Glitches in Playback

D. Possibly better audio sync


If the Bravo works more like the PC with respect to the above, then I might favor it. The Bravo may have other issues though. I haven't tried one firsthand, and don't know what their return policy would be. I probably wouldn't be willing to try it unless they'd accept a return if it isn't satisfactory.
 

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I just got my Bravo D1 and connected it via DVI cable to my new JVC AV-32DF74 monitor. The picture looks good but an unexpected problem is the remote controls. When I put on a DVD the JVC remote control will get 'picked up' by the DVD and the effect is to change the scene being played when I try to change volume or tweak the picture settings with the JVC remote. Has anyone had this problem?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ADU
Very interesting, Alan Sh. I think I noticed the same thing. Does the 931 do 720p and 1080i from the component outputs?
In his review of the HD931 in the current Widescreen Review, Greg Rogers says that the component outputs do not output 720p or 1080i and from my experience I believe him.


I however do not see how 1080i output for DVDs is an advantage for the XBR910. I counted 1500 horizontal pixels which is almost 2 times 720. This scaling could result in almost no resolution loss. On the other hand scaling from 720 to 1920 and then back to 1500 must result in resolution loss.


I have so far not had any glitches in playback nor have I heard any audio sync problems.


While I dismissed the Samsung DVI after viewing my Punch Drunk Love and Dark City tests, I found another in Lilo and Stitch which is even worse. Even when brightness is turned up to the maximum only some of the chest detail is very faintly seen 5 inches from the screen and all hint of red has been lost. The analog output easily shows the chest detail from 6 feet and it is red.



To be fair anyone considering the HD931 should read the review as it points to some instances in which the DVI is improved over the analog.
 

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Quote:
In his review of the HD931 in the current Widescreen Review, Greg Rogers says that the component outputs do not output 720p or 1080i and from my experience I believe him.
Thanks for the reply on that, Alan. Like a dumb-dumb, I didn't even think to try the component outputs. :rolleyes:
Quote:
I however do not see how 1080i output for DVDs is an advantage for the XBR910. I counted 1500 horizontal pixels which is almost 2 times 720. This scaling could result in almost no resolution loss. On the other hand scaling from 720 to 1920 and then back to 1500 must result in resolution loss.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but I don't think the 1920 horizontal rez is really scaled to 1500 to fit the screen. I believe the resolution stays at 1920 and is converted to analog samples which are then interpolated into the RGB dots on the screen.


If the 910 screen has a horizontal rez of ~1500 stripes/dots, then (counting up all the R, G, B stripes/dots individually) I believe this means it actually has the capacity to display ~4500 discreet "bits" of unique information across the screen. AFAIK, each red, green and blue "dot" can actually represent a different part of the picture. So IMO you can gain greater clarity with the higher resolutions, and details can be more discretely resolved.


My experience with the Samsung 931 on a 34XBR800 via DVI seemed to confirm this. Details appeared sharper and more resolved with the 1080i than the 480p. I could be wrong, but since the XBR910 actually has more stripes/dots than the XBR800, I'd think it would work even better.


It isn't necessarily something that leaps out at one, but when I switched back and forth, I just got an impression of greater clarity and detail @ 1080i. The Coruscant Speeder Chase on Episode II was one of the best scenes at revealing this. I felt like I could see much smaller details, and the city lights just seemed sharper and better defined, more HD. (Tweaking the convergence on the TV also helped with this.)


Scaling DVDs may not add any new visual information per se. But IMO converting them to the higher scanrate/resolution of 1920x1080i increases the CRT's precision in drawing/resolving the details that are there. I suspect many others who've scaled DVDs to 1080i might confirm this.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ADU
If the 910 screen has a horizontal rez of ~1500 stripes/dots, then (counting up all the R, G, B stripes/dots individually) I believe this means it actually has the capacity to display ~4500 discreet "bits" of unique information across the screen. AFAIK, each red, green and blue "dot" can actually represent a different part of the picture. So IMO you can gain greater clarity with the higher resolutions, and details can be more discretely resolved.

It is important to make a distinction between a DVD transmitted as 480p, DVD transmitted as 1080i , HBO transmitted as 1080i, and D-Theater transmitted as 1080i.


The 1080i HBO transmits more information than the DVD and D-Theater transmits more information than HBO. This is not true of the first two choices.

A DVD only has maximum 720x480x3 bytes of information whether it is transmitted as 480p or 1080i. Information cannot be created but it can be lost.


The question then is whether DVI at 1080i loses less information than analog at 480p or whether DVI at 1080i loses less information than DVI at 480p.


Take alternating black and white pixels on a DVD. My point is that when you simply duplicate each pixel at 720 to 1440 you lose no information. I can look at any pixel on the row and tell you what the original pixel was on the DVD. If you convert from 720 to 1920 pixels there is no way to know that the original information was alternating black and white pixels. Information has been lost.
 

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Film-based DVDs are already pretty well anti-aliased to begin with, so resampling them to higher resolutions with a good routine should result in minimal loss in PQ. (Scaling without resampling would increase the jaggies degrading the PQ.)


However, the important thing IMO is that bumping DVDs up to 1080i (with a good routine) enables the CRT to draw the video images with greater detail and precision. This is the way it seemed to my eyes anyway.


I can see a difference even at 1920x540p via my HTPC. Using the higher resolutions just gives pictures a more life-like immediacy on my TV. YMMV though.
 

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Oceanglenn,


Have you queried other Bravo users in the DVD Player forum, or talked to V Inc. re this problem?
 

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I'm surprised that nobody had mentioned LG Electronic's LST-3510A. It is a DVD player that upconverts DVD to HDTV and it also has a built in ATSC, NTSC, QAM tuners. It will be perfect for the 1 DVI input of the Sony, so you can watch HDTV OTA or cable, and get DVD playback too.

http://www.lgusa.com/dav/digital_rcv/lst3510a.html


When I eventually get my kv30xbr910, it will be a tough call between that DVD player and the LST-3410A, which is a PVR. I'm leaning toward the later because it has firewire, so I can archive to D-VHS and I can always use the component input for a Progressive DVD player.

http://www.lgusa.com/dav/digital_rcv/lst3410a.html
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by GotHDTV?
I'm surprised that nobody had mentioned LG Electronic's LST-3510A.
We were just waiting for you to bring it up, GotHDTV. ;)


Actually, I wasn't really sure how soon these HD Tuner/DVD Player/Scalers combos would be available. Have you run across models like this from any other mfrs?
 
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