[1have2much3time]

I am in the process of building my screen. I have the frame built and had a Sintra board delivered this morning (I went to pick it up last night and there was NO WAY a 6mm 5'x10' board was fitting in my land rover, so I paid the $17 extra to have it delivered this morning.


When building the frame, I routed a 1/2" wide by 1/3" deep channel around the outside that I plan to run this LED strip

that I have had lying around for months.


My question resides in the best way to do a clean install with it. When I do the velvet boarder, Ideally I would like to wrap it around the inside MDF trim piece then around to the back of the entire frame sandwich (trim|Sintra|Poplar frame). Because my screen will be in a position where it is visible from the sides, It is important to me for it to look like a single piece. The screen will be completely flush with the wall due to a french cleat and pocket joints holding the frame together, so the only separation for light to come from these LEDs is that routed channel. I've drawn a picture to describe what I mean.





My question is: How can I attach the velvet to the back of the frame, but still allow light from the LEDs to pass through? is velvet transmissive enough that I can just cover the LEDs and still produce light through it (I don't think this is the case). Should I cut small holes in the velvet where each LED is? (Time consuming, but will it weaken / rip the fabric) Should I adhere the strip to the surface of the velvet (I don't think there will be enough adhesion to prevent the LEDs from falling off)



I Appreciate the help as I want to get this done before I attach the Sintra and I want to get it on today and painted tomorrow. Although I've been silent for posting because the archives of this forum are so damn complete I just haven't had any questions yet, I haven't been able to find an answer to this.



Thanks!

 

[MississippiMan]

Your going to have issues. At best all you can do is to "Wrap' the Trim completely, and then using a deep Black such as Disney's Mouse Ears (Disney Color @ HD) in a Semit-Gloss Interior Enamel, paint the outside edges of the Sintra and Frame. You really don't want that "Tail Flap" hanging down blocking the Led Lights in any manner, but I also suggest that you mount the LED Strip all the way recessed to the inside and paint the rest of the Channel a Bright Flat White. 1/3" isn't a lot, and I'm thinking all your gonna get as far a lighting effect is a thin line no matter how you do it.


Now there is Protostar...a adhesive backed "ULTRA Black Light Blocking material. (...used for masking the inside of Telescope tubes...) but it costs a bit...like as much as your Trim and Black Velvet would / did combined.
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/hitack.htm


.......or using a Fabric Adhesive Glue, try sticking the BV onto the sides and barely wrapping it under the Light Channel. (...I hate that idea....)


Really, wrapping the Trim, and painting the excess side edges makes the best sense.

 

[1have2much3time]

I was afraid that was the answer although I was hoping for it to be possible as the idea of a 2" velvet 'block' on the outside rather than a 3 material stack was very attractive to me.


I do have fabric glue left over from when I replaced the headliner in my land rover, so I could try that. In that case, again would you recommend separating the trim wrap with the other stack or doing it all at once? I know it would be easier to do it separate, but I've already spent so much on this so I'm willing to pay the extra material costs to practice first or try again to do it right.


Another thought is to staple the LED strip to the back over the velvet. Once it's on the wall, there would be no way to see the strip. It will be reflecting off the wall which is pure white and these LEDs are bright as hell, as I'm sure you know. I'll probably never have them on anyway unless I want to show off when people come over, but it's these touches that make an average job into an 'omg' experience. I'm not looking to light the room by any means, just give it that pop.

 

[MississippiMan]

To get a truly smooth, "upholstered" look the Velvet needs to be pulled Tight. Stapling is the way to get that done effectively, using 1/4" Staples, then tapping them flush with the Velvet.


You could try several other things, but what I suggested will go quick...and assuredly easy. If you do decide to wrap under the Light Channel, I'd suggest only going to the edge of the light strip. And by keeping the light as far into the recess as you can, you will allow more dispersion, and the leading edge of the velvet will serve to mask the edge of the outgoing light.


But I really don't like that idea....no sir. Better to try to make the Edges look like finished, Semi-Gloss Black material.


Hey! Just thought of sumpthin'! What about seeing if the Melamine Adhesive Edging you can buy for going over raw edges of 3/4" Shelving is used to smooth over the two adjoining materials? (...Sintra and Rear LED Trim...) It would accept paint really well!


Personally, I live for expressions of "OMG" and seeing what I call "Jaw Drop Syndrome" take hold and make people gape like idiots. (...happy idiots, mind you...)


You don't get that nearly as often if you hedge on things that take finish and performance to the next level....or beyond.

PS.

Boy...good thing it's too hot outside (103) for me to wire up the A/V in my new upcoming Home Show house right now. Else-wise I'd of missed all this fun.

 

[1have2much3time]

I appreciate your help with this throwing ideas off.. It looks like I will have to do more thinking. and try a few things. I just grabbed a ruler (although I'm at the office so it's all estimating); it looks like my channel is closer to 2cm and the LED strip is what? ~1cm wide.. the LEDs themselves are in the center of the strip. I bet if I folded the velvet over and pulled tight, I could staple and secure it but still have room for the LEDs although it will be a tight fit and the staples will be only 3-4 mm from the edge.


So the order of operations would be:


1. Attach LED frame to the back of the frame.

2. Staple velvet to the trim like normal including the mitered corners.

3. Use finishing nails to secure the MDF trim through the sintra to the frame.

4. Pull the velvet tight over the entire stack, fold over and carefully staple close to the edge.


Here is a picture. obviously the staples will be oriented properly, but you can do only so much with paint

if this doesn't work, then I might find a thin laminate trim that I can use to cover the sintra and poplar edge and paint. I am just trying to avoid a velvet > pvc board > wood look since the board and wood will accept paint differently and it will look... off. I'd need a 1 1/4" strip though to cover the 1" frame and 6mm sintra. At least that's a popular width as well.


PS: It's only 75' in the SF bay area~ Perfect weather for building things.

edit: hmm. looked up the trim you were talking about. Definitely an idea although i'd need to put 2 side by side and cut off the extra 1/2 inch, it could definitely work.

 

[MississippiMan]

1x Lumber is only 3/4" thick and Sintra 1/4". That would leave just 1/4" depth uncovered. You could paint that little bit, and with it residing so close against the wall, it will look very neat coming out from underneath the Edge Covering.


If instead you Staple Velvet, the Staples should run "lengthwise" paralleling the Strip lighting, not as shown in your diagram.

 

[1have2much3time]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22197516


1x Lumber is only 3/4" thick and Sintra 1/4". That would leave just 1/4" depth uncovered. You could paint that little bit, and with it residing so close against the wall, it will look very neat coming out from underneath the Edge Covering.

ahh true, I stand corrected

Quote:
If instead you Staple Velvet, the Staples should run "lengthwise" paralleling the Strip lighting, not as shown in your diagram.

Quote:
Here is a picture. obviously the staples will be oriented properly, but you can do only so much with paint

I got to a late start this morning and honestly only got around to cleaning the sintra board, as it arrived pretty dirty, and got the french cleats mounted on the wall. I just painted the channel white for reflectivity and am waiting for that to dry before I mount the Sintra to the frame :/


I'm trying to take pics along the way, but I admittedly only have the frame done, so here is a pic of that:

 

[1have2much3time]

First duster layer on.. seeing it not being smooth is making me crazy! But I trust you guys, so waiting an hour~


I didn't realize just how much of the silverfire would be made.. I only picked up 2 liter buckets when it easily would require twice that. fortunately I had a larger 8L bucket around

 

[MississippiMan]

Yes, the speckle-like appearance is disconcerting to a Nubee, but as stated so often, it's the eventual build-up of paint that makes everything flow together and create a ultra smooth finish.


It's just too risky to advocate the application of normal coats, due to the thin nature of the paint..


Did you do the "Fow Through the Nylon Net Strainer" test?

 

[1have2much3time]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22200044


Yes, the speckle-like appearance is disconcerting to a Nubee, but as stated so often, it's the eventual build-up of paint that makes everything flow together and create a ultra smooth finish.

It's just too risky to advocate the application of normal coats, due to the thin nature of the paint..

Did you do the "Fow Through the Nylon Net Strainer" test?

Oh no, I spent the last 2 weeks scouring every thread in this sub-forum to be sure that I knew what to do, so it was expected, but still concerning to see firsthand. I was absolutely sure to strain through a nylon strainer first

I've seen you yell at too many people who hadn't to make that mistake!


For the third coat, I did go a little slower and started to see some balling up and running. I had a damp clean cloth close at hand and was able to dab them all away. I was surprised to see that after dabbing the run and the 3 heavier balls that showed up it looked perfect again like they were never there.. so that was a relief. However, I thought it best to continue with quick 'duster coats' and just put more on. I think I put on 8-9 coats in total.. I'm fuzzy on the number as it went late into the night, I would set an alarm for 45 minutes, wake up and do a quick paint before resetting the timer and falling back asleep.


This morning I went down, and I have to say that it looks great, however it is a lot lighter grey than I would have expected (I did a 3.0 Silverfire v2 mix). My current screen is DARK grey compared to how this came out (more of a silver grey like... back of an iPad metal color) so that was surprising. I did be sure to mix the paint to a letter, which made me spend probably close to an hour and a half mixing paint. I still have 1/2 a gallon left that I put into a new paint can. I wasn't expecting there to be so much.


Here are some pics. right now. I just went out and bought the trim and velvet along with a new staple gun with 1/4" staples and also can do 1" finishing nails for attaching the trim along with an awl to sink in the nails. I have to say, JoAnn Fabrics had the darkest, thickest velvet I have ever seen... It was about $14 per yard, but picking up the store iphone app got me a 50% discount. more pics will follow as I get closer to the original point of this thread

 

[1have2much3time]

Ok.. So i got one side done.


I stapled the velvet to one side of the trim, then nailed it in place and pulled the velvet with plenty to spare over the whole thing. Then stapled and trimmed. I have plenty of room for the LED strip. Pics:


One side of the velvet secure, using clamps to hold the trim in place as I nail:




Starting to staple the back side:




All trimmed up. You can see the extra space for the LED strip:




Front view:




Side view: (A tad out of focus)

 

[1have2much3time]

So here is how it turned out. My gf works nights, so I'm here alone and can't get it on the wall so those pics will come later (and likely after Tuesday when my Epson 5010 comes =D )


Here is the LED strip. I secured it beyond just the sticky in the back by stapling it in as well. I pushed the staples further in using the awl that I sunk in the nails. It starts 15" in on the top and bottom and 11.5" in on each of the sides. I'd have liked to go to the edge, but I only had the one 16' spool. If it looks bad, I just wont turn it on; but I think it'll look fine.




Here are pics of the side. You can see the wire a little, but I don't think it'll be visible on the wall.






Here is the finished front:

 

[1have2much3time]

I got it on the wall last night. I can't believe the drastic difference between the picture quality of my old screen vs. this one. Holy christ I feel like I was looking through a filter before! The picture is so much brighter, has more contrast and the colors simply pop. I want to do it justice, so I'm waiting until the new PJ comes (today) and is up before taking comparison shots.



However, as the point of this thread was how to do the channel for the LED back-light; here is how that turned out:


Without the back-light on:




Back-light turned on:

 

[memphisanid]

That looks awesome, long time lurker on the boards (long long time without many posts). Those LEDs look extremely bright , I might have missed you discussing but is there a dimmer for the LEDs or on/off only? I am currently waiting for my spandex to come in to get moving finally on my basement and this looks like a great project to think of while putting it together

 

[MississippiMan]

That's pretty cool looking. (...well, except that 'ol Dinosaur of a Retractable a'junkin' up the place...

)

 

[MississippiMan]

memphisanid


Perhaps we might get together sometime. If your interested, I could give you the $0.50 tour of some DIY Screens in the area.


Or just let me treat ya to a beer at least.


MMan

 

[1have2much3time]



Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisanid  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22205826


That looks awesome, long time lurker on the boards (long long time without many posts). Those LEDs look extremely bright , I might have missed you discussing but is there a dimmer for the LEDs or on/off only? I am currently waiting for my spandex to come in to get moving finally on my basement and this looks like a great project to think of while putting it together

Thanks. Right now I only put a switch for on/off on the side. I could make a dimmer using a simple potentiometer to vary the resistance, but honestly I think it'll be rare that I actually have it on. I just didn't want to be mad that I didn't do it and want to rebuild the screen a few years down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22205834


That's pretty cool looking. (...well, except that 'ol Dinosaur of a Retractable a'junkin' up the place...

)

Haha! yea, tell me about it! I'm leaving it up just until I get the before/after pics to show what a difference a really good DIY screen does compared to a comparatively priced retractable.

 

[memphisanid]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22205870


memphisanid

Perhaps we might get together sometime. If your interested, I could give you the $0.50 tour of some DIY Screens in the area.

Or just let me treat ya to a beer at least.

MMan

That would be great, from all my lurking I couldn't ask for a better person to get together with. Lord knows I love me a brew or two and if anyone should be buying anyone a beer it should be me buying for you and on many occasions. You contribute so much to this section of the forum.

I'll try not to hijack the thread after this but I have had my projector (Epson Home Cinema 8100) going on 3 years now (second bulb) and have very very slowly done "work" in the basement. Started out with it on a book shelf behind the couch to finally DIY mounting it to the ceiling and have had the BOC screen hanging from the ceiling with binder clips. Im trying to get a post together with pictures later tonight for some help and suggestions on set up. My goal is to at least have figured out the size of the screen I want and frame it this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1have2much3time  /t/1419023/finishing-touches-looking-for-suggestions#post_22206083


Thanks. Right now I only put a switch for on/off on the side. I could make a dimmer using a simple potentiometer to vary the resistance, but honestly I think it'll be rare that I actually have it on. I just didn't want to be mad that I didn't do it and want to rebuild the screen a few years down the road.

I know exactly what you mean. I have held off for so long because I had no idea what I wanted to do with my space down there and didn't want to throw money at it over and over again. I'm finally able to get some breathing room after tax season and not getting certifications in my down time. I can't wait to get building/remodeling. Those LEDs are calling my name.

 

[1have2much3time]

I wanted to follow up with the obligatory 'after' shots.


I posted the 'daytime' photos in another thread. I cropped them so the screen was straight in all of them. In the night ones, I did a ~20% noise reduction to reduce ISO noise. I then saved them as an 80% quality JPG. That is the only editing done to any of them. I didn't know if reducing the ISO noise was a bad thing.. If so, I can swap them out with the originals. It was dark, so there was serious noise. I moved the slider in lightroom until it was -just- barely visible.





These are taken with the blinds open and the mid-day sun shining straight in through the window. I did nothing to try to block any incoming light:


Picture 1: I ran an HDMI cable from my main PC to the PJ and use it as a '4th monitor' / accessory display. On my computer, I have a 3 27" monitor setup, so I bought a new GTX 670 4gb to go with this projector and use it as a 4th monitor. I can 'drag up' any window / game or whatever and it'll show on the projector. I also got a wireless keyboard/mouse so I can play PC games in the living room. It shows white/black contrast pretty well.



Picture 2: This is the XBMC front screen for my HTPC (separate computer)



Picture 3: This is from Timescapes. I wanted to show a dark picture with some bright areas.



Picture 4: This is from Transformers: Dark of the moon.



Now for the night photos:


The same Transformers scene! (Yes I actually kept it paused (forgot to unpause) until night time.



The next two are from Timescapes. It shows black white and color contrast very well.





I fired up the playstation. The last game I was playing was FFXIII-2. The title screen is really good. It shows the complete lack of any hotspots. The dots on the right side are part of the background and are supposed to be there =D







One of the reasons that I wanted to hook my main computer, in addition to the HTPC, up to the PJ is that I like to play MMOs, but my girlfriend hates that she can't lay on me while I'm doing it... So I, being a final fantasy fanatic, am currently playing the hell out of FFXIV. Here is me -finally- being able to grope my character! It also shows the scale of the screen well I think. edit: (obviously taken in jest >.>)

 

[MississippiMan]

You Dog you.........


Oh well....it is a Fantasy, right?