[tutelary]

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.


This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.


What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

 

[Evan_H]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tutelary /forum/post/12862739


Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.


This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

+1 Not just the older generation, I can't see why anyone would want to fuss with firmware updates! I'm an engineer, I "fuss" with technology all day at work, I don't want to come home only to have to do more work in order to watch a movie.

 

[whippersnapper]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tutelary /forum/post/12862739


Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.


This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.


What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

The solution is obvious. Just simply go out into the market every 3 or 4 months and buy the latest player (it will have the latest firmware included) and sell your old player on eBay. The eBay buyer will be more than happy to do the firmware updates.


Personally I don't mind doing firmware updates at all. They're not that difficult after all. Do your grandparents firmware updates for them -- it's a family thing to do.

 

[Rutgar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper /forum/post/12865789


The solution is obvious. Just simply go out into the market every 3 or 4 months and buy the latest player (it will have the latest firmware included) and sell your old player on eBay. The eBay buyer will be more than happy to do the firmware updates.


Personally I don't mind doing firmware updates at all. They're not that difficult after all. Do your grandparents firmware updates for them -- it's a family thing to do.

Um, I believe you are totally missing the point. The point isn't how difficult it is to do firmware updates. The point is that if you buy a player that is supposed to play a certain format, you shouldn't have to do a firmware update every few months to get it to play the latest movie. I have a Pioneer Elite DVD player that I've had for over 4 years and I have never had to do a "firmware" update on it to get it to play a DVD. Yet, I've had to do 3 firmware updates on my BD player, and I've only had it 6 months! If these updates are to work out bugs in new technology, that's one thing. But if it's simply to satisfy an ever-changing BD spec, then that's just simply total BS.

 

[cjr1]

This one of double-edge swords that technology and the internet has introduced. While it is nice to be able to add new features to products and work out small bugs that may have been unforseeable during product testing, it seems that companies are also using this to make us all beta testers for products they are trying to rush to market. Blu-Ray specs should have been finished before it came to market.

 

[Volitar Prime]

What bothers me the most is that as you wait for the needed firmware update you have movies sitting on your shelves collecting dust that you can't play. I just bought Sunshine only to find that it won't play on my Samsung BD-UP5000 even though that player just got a firmware update two days ago. How long will I have to wait for the next firmware update to play this movie? Now I need to make the decision to either keep the movie with the hope that some day I can play it, or argue with a Best Buy manager in the attempt to exchange the opened movie for a different title (which may or may not play).

 

[El Espectro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr1 /forum/post/12865975


This one of double-edge swords that technology and the internet has introduced. While it is nice to be able to add new features to products and work out small bugs that may have been unforseeable during product testing, it seems that companies are also using this to make us all beta testers for products they are trying to rush to market. Blu-Ray specs should have been finished before it came to market.

This hits the nail on the head for me. Generally speaking I LOVE firmware. Gone are the days when if you don't have a feature at the time of purchase, you're waiting until you buy again. Firmware updates have added GREAT things to the ps3: DVD upscaling for one. It was one of the worst SD DVD players I had ever owned: new firmware, fantastic upscaling to 1080P. It's particularly nice when a company is really behind IMPROVING a product after launch. And with the PS3 and WIFI, it is VERY easy to upgrade. It even tells you when there's new firmware available.


Sometimes companies will even add features that were originally exclusive to their higher models after they've been out for a while.


However, standalone players are a different story. Most people don't plan on having them connected to the internet, which means more complicated updates (for some). Adding basic functionality and working out major bugs that should have been fixed before the product hit the shelf is unacceptible. It's sort of like a lazy director saying "we'll fix it in post" when it would have been best just to shoot the shot again: "We'll get the product on the shelves, and then, whatever. If people have trouble we'll try to fix it then"


The firmware release date shouldn't feel like Christmas to people with non-functioning gear.

 

[jhe]

This whole concept here in this thread is false. That is the idea that firmware updates are something bad and new and we didn't used to do this.


It is true we didn't do this much in the past but it is totally false that we didn't need to do it. I have tossed many devices into the trash can after only 1 to 2 years, thousands of dollars worth of stuff all because they wound up needing a minor update and the manufacturer would not provide it or the device had no easy way to do an update. This includes tv tuners, DVD players, CD drives, etc.


I have also had situations where I could not easily update a product I wanted to buy and I read in reviews that I needed to get on post some serial number so it would actually work and I could not even select a good one because no one had the serial numbers available before purchase.


Making firmware updates easy and providing them often solves both problems.

 

[desmond212]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tutelary /forum/post/12862739


Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.


This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.


What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

+1. i told my mom not bother with either format. stable players are a must!

 

[paintit77]

They really suck and I am getting tired of them. Blu-Ray needs to finalize everything as soon as possible because if the average Joe has to conduct firmwares to make there movie rentals play, all I can say is MSRP Buy and Wal-Mart are going to have a lot of open box players on the shelf.

If this continues, then HDM will die a slow death.


I just purchased a Panny BDP-30 because my Samsung BDP-1000 quite playing any of the new BR releases. Do think the average joe is going to tolerate this?

 

[NYFOOTBALLGIANTS]

The spec not being finished is really a disaster, anyone defending Sony here is just letting their passion for the format cloud their judgement. I know it has happened in Tech and will again but why give a pass over and over and over... Sony obviously could not get their players out the door in time, forced them out and early adopters are getting screwed.

 

[Rutgar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jhe /forum/post/12866181


This whole concept here in this thread is false. That is the idea that firmware updates are something bad and new and we didn't used to do this.


It is true we didn't do this much in the past but it is totally false that we didn't need to do it. I have tossed many devices into the trash can after only 1 to 2 years, thousands of dollars worth of stuff all because they wound up needing a minor update and the manufacturer would not provide it or the device had no easy way to do an update. This includes tv tuners, DVD players, CD drives, etc.


I have also had situations where I could not easily update a product I wanted to buy and I read in reviews that I needed to get on post some serial number so it would actually work and I could not even select a good one because no one had the serial numbers available before purchase.


Making firmware updates easy and providing them often solves both problems.

First off, we're not talking about a firmware update after a couple years. I've had to do 2 FW updates in just the last month alone. And no one here is saying firmware updates themselves are bad. We're saying that firmware updates to satisfy a continual changing BD spec is bad. They need to get the spec nailed down, and stick to it.

 

[CRFTony]

I think firmware updates are a pain in the ass and shouldn't need to be done. As long as we need to update our firmware to play some movies, hdm will never catch on with mainstream movie buyers. I tried countless times to update the firmware on my A1 and it never worked until Toshiba sent me a disc. OF course, they only sent me one and haven't sent any since, even though there are 2 updates since then.


Updating my PS3 is super easy but I know my family would never be able to do it. Not everyone has their player connected to the net. I don't and need to download the update to a USB device and then connect that to the PS3. I know that's easy for "us", but no way would my parents go through that.

 

[helmsman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tutelary /forum/post/12862739


Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable.

I don't mind doing firmware updates but I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[wallijonn]



Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper /forum/post/12865789


The solution is obvious.

Do what Nintendo does on their games - encode any updates onto newer movies. When the disc is inserted it checks the current BIOS/firmware against the newest. If it isn't at the latest rev then it automatically updates it. The latest movies, the ones most likely to need updates, will have their firmware program encoded onto the disc.


Yes, there is a few minutes process, but this can be disguised by throwing up a 'commercial'. Just show trailers while it is updating in the background. You have to watch the damn things anyway, might as well make them useful. Or just throw up a nice graphics that says, "Please wait while we update the firmware. The unit will automatically power off and on and the movie will start to play automatically."

 

[SirDrexl]

I don't even think it's due to the specs. Haven't there only been 3 versions (1.0, 1.1, and 2.0), the last of which isn't even out yet? Plus, aren't the newer versions only supposed to affect access to certain kinds of special features? We have problems where the movie isn't even playing. Thankfully I've never had a problem playing a movie on the PS3, but then again I've kept it up to date.


I'd be more inclined to blame BD+ or just players that weren't quite finished rather than the specs.

 

[Old Pirate]

Goodness gracious.......think of the things we use weekly that continuously have firmware updates...


Bios on computer motherboards

Operating Systems

Cameras

GPS systems


I'm really pleased that the consumer can jump onto something that continues to be a work in progress and not be hung on the ability of what I bought on the day I bought it.


I'm nearly 60 years old. I downloaded the BR update, unzipped it, burned the CD and had it going in less than 30 minutes. It's not an age thing, its a simple matter of paying attention to what's going on in the world around you.


My virus system updates daily, Windows updates just about everyweek. I've had 4 updates to some Adobe programs I use since Halloween. Updates are a way of life and I'm very thankful for that ability.


If only I could be updated! Ok...no jokes about ram modifications from the cheap seats! LOL!

 

[Rutgar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wallijonn /forum/post/12866583


Do what Nintendo does on their games - encode any updates onto newer movies. When the disc is inserted it checks the current BIOS/firmware against the newest. If it isn't at the latest rev then it automatically updates it. The latest movies, the ones most likely to need updates, will have their firmware program encoded onto the disc.


Yes, there is a few minutes process, but this can be disguised by throwing up a 'commercial'. Just show trailers while it is updating in the background. You have to watch the damn things anyway, might as well make them useful. Or just throw up a nice graphics that says, "Please wait while we update the firmware. The unit will automatically power off and on and the movie will start to play automatically."

Actually, this is a great idea. After all, that's what we're basically doing now, only we're having to make the discs ourselves. One problem I see though, is that the disc would have to have the latest firmware updates for all players. Either that or it would take some sort of cooperation between player manufacturers in order to make the updates universally compatible.

 

[SirDrexl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar /forum/post/12866996


Actually, this is a great idea. After all, that's what we're basically doing now, only we're having to make the discs ourselves. One problem I see though, is that the disc would have to have the latest firmware updates for all players. Either that or it would take some sort of cooperation between player manufacturers in order to make the updates universally compatible.

The problem with that is that often the update isn't available when the disc is pressed. It would be an update from several weeks prior to the release date, and usually the problem isn't known then. It's only after the disc is out there that reports of it not working with a player come in. It's not as if these studios are intentionally releasing problem discs. If they knew a player had a problem with a title beforehand, they'd probably re-author the disc rather than adding a firmware update. (This may be what happened with Independence Day.)


Then, there's the problem of keeping up with an increasing number of players. It's a lot easier for Nintendo or Sony to do it with a game console, where it's one system, one update.

 

[spwolf]

I guess you guys lust for old days when you would have to purchase new player to get new firmware and fixes... good ol days.