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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off, I'd like to say "thanks" to all of those forum members who got to attend Cedia this year and got to meet with all of the other members. It is a real treat to faces and voices with names. I'm sure there is going to be a lot of differing opinions on what people have seen. No one got to thoroughly test any of the products that were demonstrated so these observations are all preliminary. Not to mention many of them were only prototypes so they were not up to perfection yet. I intend to do a more in depth evaluation of many of these products once they are released. I will do this report in a list fasion to make to easier to read.


Seleco HT300:

I was very impressed with this prototype projector. It had outstanding colors and like the HT200DM, superb black levels. They actually did the comparison next to a Seleco CRT with the same source material, and it was really tough to tell the difference. The only problem, which had nothing to do with the projector, was that we only were shown HDTV through this unit. As many of us know, the main virtue of this projector is that it has the Faroudja processing built inside. I would have liked to see a DVD playing to compare. I do think from what I saw that when the actual production model comes out, this is going to be a hot little seller. We have already ordered one of these even though they aren't slated for release until November. We want to have the first one!! Alan and I will do more thorough testing then.


Dwin Transvision II:

Another winner. This unit is going to be packaged with several consumer choices. You will be able to choose from 2 bulbs, depending on the power you need for your situation. They will have a 150 watt and a 270 watt models. The approximate outputs will be 1000 lumens and 1500 lumens, respectively. This will also come packaged again with the Transcanner scaler so there is no need for any outboard processing. The prototype was housed in a Transvision I case but they told me that was just for the show and the actual model would have a sleeker looking case to it. I did get to see both HDTV and progressive DVD playback with this unit, both were very good. I also forgot to mention that you will have a choice of lenses as well, depending on your throw distance needs.


Sharp Z9000:

I was pretty impressed with this unit. I must say that I was a little suprised too. Seleco and Dwin have made a name for themselves with their high quality products, but Sharp seemed to have dissappeared for a while. Well their back and better than ever. Again, I was only able to see HDTV on this unit, but like the Dwin and Seleco, it had very impressive colors and blacks. I noticed that the projector came in what I consider an overly large case. The Seleco and Dwin are very sleek and relatively small, but the Sharp was about the size of a D-ila. The one drawback to this unit is going to be that you will still need an outboard scaler for non-HDTV sources. Both the Dwin and Seleco come with them. This will make the lower retail price sort of obsolete since you will need to spend extra money on a scaler.


For those who aren't familiar with the above units, they all are single chip DLP units using the new HD1 TI DMD chip. It is a 1280x720 chipset. They all also have the RGBRGB color wheel which will not only yield much better colors and black levels, but greatly reduces the infamous rainbow effect.


Plus Piano:

This looks almost like a toy. It is very small and will not accept HDTV. The main virtue of this unit is that it is inexpensive. For those who are looking for a small DVD playback projector, this might be the unit for you. For those who are really into home theater, I doubt you'd even give it a second look.


Vutec's new Black Screen:

By far the most impressive display piece at the show. This thing is amazing. They had a LCD projector showing on this screen in the full light section of the show, out in the open, and it was brighter than any other setup in the show (note that the screen was only about 40" diagonal). The key thing is that the blacks were black. Not gray, not almost black, they were pitch black. Currently the largest they can make the screen is 60" diagonal due to the new technology, and at that size the price is about $5k, but they expect that prices will be way down by the same time next year and sizes will be much larger. It really isn't ready for most situations now, but it does show where things are headed. Can't wait!! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif They do have another problem which they are aware of. There is a noticeable seem where the sections are put together. They assured me that they were working on the problem.


Vutec's Graydove:

Another product from Vutec. This is a gray material now available from Vutec. It has a gain of .85. Similar to Stewarts and Dalite gray screens, it is designed for digital projectors. I have to say it is a very good material and will be a real contender to the other 2 companies. A little competition never hurt anyone! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Sony WPH-11HT:

I have got to say that I was not impressed. I will also say that in general I am not partial to LCD projectors, so don't get mad at me for saying this. It was a very washed out picture and had relatively poor black levels. What I will say is that I haven't set my opinion in stone. You never know who set these projectors up or what was done to setup them up, so it is possible that when we do our own thorough testing my opinion may change. When we first saw the 10HT, I thought it was awful. But when we got into the service menu and did some color adjustments and other setup, we got the thing to sing! I hope that we can get the same results with the 11HT. Keep this in mind should you decided it is the projector for you. You may have to do some in depth setup to be satisfied.


Kenwood Sovereign DVD player:

This unit has got some very nice features. Like the Escient system (only way cheaper) you can get a box that will allow you to download DVD covers and information for the 400 discs in the unit. I'll also mention that this unit can have MP3 and CD's put in as well and the DVD knows where they all are. Very cool. The main virtue is that it has the Faroudja chipset in it. I only got to see the Faroudja in action on a HDTV TV set (not even RPTV) so I don't know exactly how well it performed. It did look very good when compared to other DVD players though, so that is promising.


I'm sure that I'm missing something but I'll sign off for now. If I remember anything else I'll edit this post with a followup. Again, keep in mind that thorough testing was not possible and many of these items were just prototypes, so these views may change. Thanks for reading.




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Jason Turk

AV Science, Inc.
http://www.avscience.com

716-454-1460 ext.204

[email protected]
 

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jason and company - do you have a 9" 3 gun in your shop? if so it would be really interesting to set a tweeked hd1 dlp next to it and compare the black level (and the rest of the pq for that matter). several of us have been kicking this around on another thread. i am wondering just how far the dlp's have to go before they reach G90 status for black level. i'm sure they are not they yet but i just wonder if the delta is still big.


greg


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Compaq MP2800 DLP, 1Ghz htpc w radeon aiw, 45 x 80" diy accoustically transparent screen, lexicon dc-1. ipaq touchscreen for control
 

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Jason,


Great report, Interesting what you said about the Sharp. Actually I think there is a market for Scalerless projectors, us HTPC geeks like projectors too! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif I wish that compaies like Seleco would make cheaper versions of their projectors without internal deinterlacers and scallers. Not only does the extra stuff add to the cost it often gets in the way.


Jeff
 

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Jason,

Thanks for the report,with reference to the Plus, as someone looking for a small dvd playback projector,can you tell me what the picture was like on this unit? (blacks, colours, sharpness).Hopefully you didn't dismiss it completely.

Thanks

Matt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Greg:


We do have a 9" NEC CRT projector. If it is still around when these units actually ship then we could definitely do a comparison. As I had mentioned Seleco showed their 800 Millenium along with the HT300 and they looked very close, although that is only a 7" CRT.


Jeff:


Point well taken. HTPC users would definitely benefit from the Sharp for that reason. I wouldn't say there is a clear winner between any of these units, they all have their pluses and minuses depending on each persons individual needs and wants.


Matt:


The Plus in truth I only saw briefly. As I had mentioned for DVD playback it is not a bad little unit, and at a retail of around $3k, it will definitely fill an existing hole in the Home Theater projector market. I plan to do more extensive testing on it as well. I really think that it has a major uphill battle when it comes to comparing performance with the other 3 DLP units.


Thanks!


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Jason Turk

AV Science, Inc. http://www.avscience.com

716-454-1460 ext.204

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by Jason Turk (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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Jason

Great report. What did you find out about the DVI connection into the Dwin ? With 10 inputs I think you will not run out of options here. Was any mention of the various pricing for the different lens options and different bulb options. Was any mention of firm pricing and avaliability mentioned ?


With an option for 1000 or 1500 Ansi's Dwin looks like its got light output covered and big screens under control. Did you notice this output compared to most having 800 Ansi's or so ? Also what was the ranges of the two lens options ?

Thanks Jason.



DavidW
 

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Jason, thanks for the report..


WRT the Sharp z9000, does it have NO scaler at all, or just one that you feel is inferior to the one in the DWIN and the Seleco???


Also if one is to purchase a top notch DVD player with a good de-interlacer built into it, is a good scaler really that much of a necessity for the projector???


Take care,


- Cain
 

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What about the New New Stuff?


Any fresh announcements on the Archimedes wheel, grating light valve projectors or new LCOS units? Did Christie Digital or Panasonic show their new inventions (if even in prototype)?


Mark
 

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Cain, the German review of the Sharp posted on this forum states that the reviewer felt that Sharp was ahead with their processing - that in fact it was better than the Sage chipset!


Cheers,


Grant
 

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i understand that the sharp has to be manually switched from adaptive to 3/2. i could be wrong here.


jason - i saw the seleco demo but i couldn't tell much about black level watching a high def football game. some on the forum were suggesting a more scientific test such as displaying a black screen and maybe some very dark scenes.


greg




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Cain,


Will all the HD1 projectors, it seems like a scalar is mandatory for DVD....as the pj is going to upconvert 480p to the pj's native rate. Question is how good the internal scalars are...and it sucks that this questiosn can't be answered as Jason alluded too.


Keith
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Disco:
Jason,


How was the light over-spray on these projectors?


Thanks,

Scott
one thing that was interesting was that marantz made a big deal that they had apertured the dmd down so that there was 0 overspray. that and some other thoughts are in my second day post about half way through this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/008723.html


greg



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Compaq MP2800 DLP, 1Ghz htpc w radeon aiw, 45 x 80" diy accoustically transparent screen, lexicon dc-1. ipaq touchscreen for control
 

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Unfortunately, I didn't get to visit CEDIA until Sunday afternoon, but I get to take a look at most of the products Jason mentioned above.


The Vutec GreyDove appeared to be very comparable to the Stewart Greyhawk, possibly slightly darker in color. A Vutec representative told me it would cost half the price of "the competition" (presumably Stewart). If that is true, the GreyDove will offer a lot of performance for the price.


I did get a chance to view Kenwood Sovereign DVD player on a CRT projector (I can't remember the make / model - too many booths). The video was native 480P directly out of the DVE player(no scaling). I was very surprised by the quality of the picture. It appeared to be playing at a resolution higher than the 480P; nearly identical to the 720P image I'd just seen at the Sim2 booth. I was told that Kenwood has licensed 2 chips from Faroudja. One is a deinterlacing chip (which Philips has also licensed for their player). The second was a chip that "adds crispness to the 480P output to make it appear to be of a higher resolution". I wish I'd gotten more details because it had a noticeable impact on picture quality.


Speaking of Sim2, they also have a new projector (HT 300)with the TI 1280x720 chipset and built-in Faroudja processing. This could very well be a Selco design, but I can't confirm that suspicion. They were advertising only a 600 ANSI lumen output but a 1100:1 contrast ratio. It seems like they wouldn't have needed a Grayhawk screen with that high of a contrast ratio, but I was still impressed by the color reproduction, black levels, and resolution. Retail price will be $15k.


I've been reading this forum on and off for a while but haven't actually posted. Like many people, I've been wanting for a 16:9 DLP before taking the plunge into a system upgrade. The time is quickly approaching...


-Carlton


[This message has been edited by Carlton Bale (edited 09-10-2001).]
 

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I am a bit confused about the scaling comment of the Z9000. The Sharp has proprietary internal scaling and does 3:2 pulldown. Their demo of "low quality" signal consisted of fedding it a 480i signal (Gladiator DVD). Not my idea of "low quality", but it did an excellent job at scaling it.
 

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Its more than a little stange why they do this on demos, but it would seem as though some of these units are not ready yet. Otherwise they would have shown off a good Dvd.

The strange thing is that Dwin had on Vertical Limit yet by all accounts Dwin did not pre-announce their new projector.



DavidW
 

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By the way, I think that it is a direct assault for a company to name their new digital projector screen the "GrayDove", which is clearly modeled after the Stewart "GrayHawk".


I find the lack of creativity and the obvious play on words to be quite disturbing, and if they are not careful with their logo, potentially trademark infringement.


Sorry, I just don't care for that sort of business decision.
 

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I think is was stupid too..


Everyone knows a Hawk will always kill and eat any DOVE it sees..


-- Cain

 
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