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Discussion Starter #1
Hank at Studio Experience let me try out the Studio Experience Cinema 13HD, which is a native 16:9 XGA LCD projector. It is rated at 1200 lumens and 700:1 contrast ratio. It is an updated version of the Sanyo PLV-60, improved to Studio Experience's requirements regarding processing capabilities. It has the new high contrast technology that Sanyo is now famous for.


The following comments are the result of viewing progressive DVD input from Toshiba 6200 (viewing the V/E test patterns and Video Montage, Fifth Element, Jurassic Park, Austin Powers):


Overall: a beautiful picture right out of the box.


It has a much, much better scaler than 21N/38t, which I just couldn’t watch on the 21N/38t with the 6200 feeding it directly. Very good, dare I say excellent, quality and quite usable, which makes for extremely easy set-up. The test patterns caused me to cut the sharpness to the minimum. Just because of my preferences on the 21N/38t, I also boosted the gamma to 10 to 12 of 15 where 8 is the default. The color balance needed very minor tweaking in my room according to V/E, but it was close enough that I didn't see any pressing need to do it right away.


As compared to 21N/38t (my frame of reference and the finest picture I or my friends have ever seen):


What’s better: 16:9 native chip (no black bars and really wide picture), remotely controlled lens shift for easier set up, the scaler (no outboard processor necessary with progressive component DVD player through component inputs or DTC-100 through VGA input), black level is darker and presence of gamma adjustment (which brightens the middle of the gray scale range for allowing what I consider

enhanced details).


What’s the same: contrast and color (which is incredible on both projectors).


What’s worse: screen door (because no MLA “micro lens array,†though still not visible at two times the screen width) and available lumens (though I like the brighter projector, many think the 21N/38t is too bright, so this

may be a matter of taste, though I haven't tried to watch sports in the daytime).


As to "solarization", Dan Houck linked me to another forum for an explanation of what it is and what to look for. So I performed the infamous "Diva's Belly Test" on the 5th Element. There is no hint of anything screwy there. Not a trace of an artifact effect. Whatever glitch the PLV-60 had is adios in this machine.


I really hate to admit this but I couldn't get the Toshiba 6200 to output an NTSC signal through S-Video input. I think I tried everything, but I'm stumped.


The picture was extremely pleasing. Big big grins. My eagle eyed son even approves. The only thing that diminished the experience for me is that I was already blown away by my 21N/38t, and have now gotten used to it, so I wasn't shocked by the quality of the picture, because they are so similar. I think anyone used to a DLP who saw this picture would be astounded by the colors, contrast ratio, shadow detail and black levels. It's quite a bit brighter than my LP350 was, and the gamma adjustments can make this difference even more pronounced. It's like a giant wide screen format tube.


As to the "giant" aspect, after two nights of committed watching, I (unfortunately) got very accustomed to the scale of the picture. At about the same throw distance (15 to 16 feet) it made a picture that was the same height as my screen (60") but 110" wide (being 125" diagonal) on 16:9 sources and (because it maintains height) on 4:3 material it filled my 100" diagonal 4:3 screen perfectly. On 16:9 material the picture is so wide that you can't really take it all in without moving your eyes around to follow the action and see everything, like at the theater. So with this projector, your not losing anything on 4:3 but gaining about 2 1/2 feet of width on 16:9. When I went back to my 38t, the 2.35:1 5th Element seemed a little mail slotty for a while, until I (thankfully) became reaclimated and began appreciating the moderate boost in brightness. I would literally have to move a door to fit a 110" wide screen in my space, so I'm stuck.


Now, HD on the DTC-100. YES. If you buy it, you will like it. Plus a bonus, always before when watching NTSC channels through the HD tuner, the quality seemed pretty low. But for some reason, when viewed on this projector, through the VGA feed, and switching between HD channels and NTSC channels, I was surprised with how good the NTSC channels looked. I suppose it is because you are using all of the pixel available vertically to make the picture, rather than a small square in the middle. Plus, I'm sure all that contrast and color really helps brings out the detail. In that mode, you can alway watch DSS in the 16:9 aspect ratio, and have very good quality.


My final word on the screen door. If you sit where the projector is (like under it) you won't be able to see it at all (and I had my glasses cleaned and on).


I tested it on a 1.3 gain Da-Lite screen from about a 16 foot throw distance.


Go to studioexperience.com for a data sheet of the spec's.


------------------

Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.



[This message has been edited by JHouse (edited 08-21-2001).]
 

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Thanks for your input on this model.


16x9 lcd/dlp panel will become common place over the next year.


While I am not a fan of lcd I may take a look at one of these because of all the rave comments I keep reading.


Let us know how the unit performs with hdtv.



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Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
www.avscience.com
 

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I can guarantee you the XP21N/Boxlight 38T is not too bright on a Grayhawk screen. Joe, I wish you could see how that screen brings out the detail and contrast on the 38T. It is the icing on the cake with this projector. I'd be hesitant to use the same screen for the 13T however. I think it would absorb too much light.


Given we still live in a 4:3 world, I still feel native 4:3 projectors make sense, particularly when coupled with the Panamorph. The result is a setup that can handle all aspect ratios with ease and incredible depth


I can't wait to get my Quadscan and get a look at Monday night football through this setup! :> )


Joe, are you going to try out the 40T?


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Peter


I'll try the Quadscan on it next, but what I am talking about as screen door, really is screen door. It didn't come and go or change with the disk or scene. In other words it wasn't scaling artifacts that looked like pixelization which could be confused with screen door. Once you get back to a viewing position where the black lined grid can't be seen, you won't see any effects of it and the picture looks perfect. Therefore, I don't expect the Quadscan to have any effect on it.


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, I'll bite, what is "solarization"? I'll look for it and comment, if you'll tell me or link me to a thread.


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok, as to the clone issue, here is what I have uncovered:


Studio Experience was shopping projectors for a "house brand" they could screen for quality, stand behind and be proud of. They really liked the PLV-60, but it had some "issues" relating to stair-stepping and other scaling/deinterlacing artifacts unrelated to the light engine and 16:9 panels. They told Sanyo they would bite if they could clean up those problems. Sanyo did, and produced the 13HD as an enhanced and updated machine. This was after the PLV-60 was already produced and in the warehouses all over the world. Studio Experience used none of the first run. They have only the improved version, and they were the first ones (and probably the only ones) to have it. If you buy a PLV-60 now, you might be getting a machine that does not incorporate the improvements which were required by Studio Experience. Sanyo will probably update their machines, but I doubt if it will be economically viable for them to update their prior production. Therefore, if you buy a PLV-60, I would not be surprised if it does not perform like the machine I'm looking at.


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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I received my 13HD on Saturday morning.


I have to spend some more time with it to get everything calibrated, and I'm having a couple of HTPC related issues, but as far as the projector itself goes... first impressions... Wow!


I previously owned a Boxlight cd555m (lp350). I started talkingt to Hank at Studio Experience a couple of months ago with regard to upgrading to the mp38t (XPN-21). He suggested that I wait and check out the 13HD when it was available.


It is quite a bit brighter than the 555m. The 555m was barely watchable with ambient light and almost impossible to watch during the day in the room that I have it in. The 13HD looks great with some ambient light and is still fully watchable in the bright conditions of my room during the day.


Unfortunately, until I get a new screen, I'm watching it on a painted wall, but even then it looks great. Colors are outstanding, shadow detail is great and personally, I love the 16:9 aspect ratio. 1360x768 desktop on my HTPC rocks!


Black levels are quite good, especially considering the conditions of the room it's in (light walls, white ceiling, light carpet). My wife finally agreed that at least the wall behind the screen wall needs to be darker, so I'll probably do that this week.


Screen door is noticable, but tolerable. After being used to the very smooth image of a DLP, there is definitely some adjustment period, but I'm willing to live with the screen door in trade for the much better overall image quality. I'm also stuck sitting 9' away from an 87" diagonal (16:9) screen, which is rather close, but again, I can live with that.


I did notice some very minor solarization, but I believe it is source-related and not due to the projector.


Two two issues I'm having right now, which I believe are HTPC and cabling related are image ghosting (especially noticeable when viewing the Windows desktop) and some slight tearing and jerkiness on horizontal pans.


Overall, though, with respect to the visual impact of the images this projector produces in comparison to the lp350cd555m, there IS no comparison. The 13HD blows it out of the water. For my wife to walk into the room (the same wife who has been grilling me with the "Ok, and just WHY do we need a NEW projector after less than a year?" question) and say "Oh my God, that looks AMAZING!" its got to be good. ;-)


I should probably note that this is all without any calibration... I'll tweak and calibrate this week, probably build a Cat5e RGB cable to try and elimiate the ghosting and try to work out the HTPC issues, then I'll post some more in-depth views.


-Mike
 

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How do you get 1360 x 768 from htpc to synchronized with the 13hd...I only can get it to display properly at 1280 x 720 using powerstrip 3.0 with a radeon ve card? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It synched up automatically for me. It just reads 1080i for the source.


Check my updated/edited first impression above. I saw HDTV big!


------------------

Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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Hello Everyone,


The Cinema 13HD is the Sanyo PLV-60HT. There is absolutely NO difference between the two units. This is just a re-labeled machine. Please do no be fooled into thinking that they tinkered with it in anyway. The only difference is the the box itself which will reflect the new model name. I believe even the menu screen is the same.



AJ Abrams

Product Analyst

Projector People
 

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AJ,


Apparently, the 13HD has none of the solarization effects that plagues the Sanyos and has a different software/firmware than the PLV 60.
 

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I can assure you that the firmware is the same. As for the solarization, this might be explained from Sanyo itself. Since these machines are later models it's possible that Sanyo has fixed the problem.


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AJ Abrams
 

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People are blowing this solarization issue out of proportion. I have the PLV-60HT and do not see ANY solarization. I have even asked people to pick specific scenes from movies so I could check for it and I cannot see it for the life of me.


This projector is amazing, I sit 14' back from a 96" Grayhawk. The screen door is not visible at this distance, just a beautiful picture.


Robert
 

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I too have gotten to test the Cinema13HD thanks to Hank at SE. I have been working with it for about a week and a half now. I have it coupled with the Quadscan Scaler. With the Quadscan, the screen door affect is pretty much gone. Sure about 2 feet away I can see the remnants of screen door but from any reasonable viewing distance (5 feet +) it is a smooth and very film like image.


My test screen is a Da-Lite 120" 16:9 ascpect ratio with a 1.3 gain. The 120" screen size really puts the projector to the test.


Now for some of my observations;

1. The Quadscan really makes the image velvet smooth, no more screen door.

2. Very vibrant colors.

3. Nice variation in greys and shades of darkness.

4. Scenes with lots of neutral, earthy tones show great detail i.e. Jeremiah Johnson, Saving Private Ryan,

5. Overall the wow factor was high.


I also compared it to the Sony 10HT and the Zenith Pro900x CRT. Although the Sony 10HT was impressive for a first breakout LCD technology it did not compete with the Zenith or the Cinema13HD, IMHO. Mainly because it's DVD and satellite SDTV images were subpar and very poor with ambient light. The problem with the Sony appears to be that any ambient light washes out the picture. I fear the 11HT will have the same problem since its light output has not been increased. In all fairness the HDTV material looked very good on the Sony.


The Cinema13HD and Zenith Pro900x were about even. Which is saying a lot for the Cinema13HD. Both images were sharp and focused with lots of detail visible in the images. The Zenith reproduced more subtle detail in shadowy scenes but the Cinema13 had the more vibrant colors. With lights on the Cinema13 performed better than Zenith. The Cinema13 was definitely watchable in a "lower" light environment, whereas the Zenith was less watchable with washed out colors and the Sony was really unwatchable.


Don't get me wrong about the Cinema13, it is not the final answer. It does have problems. For one the 120" screen is really too large for it. The "perceived" picture resolution begins to break up with this large of an image. Granted it is a large viewing area, much larger than is needed by most. Also I perceived a "softness" to the image created using the Quadscan. I'm looking to investigate this further for as long as I have this projector. So there will be more to come.


Oh yes, another problem is the "solarization". It is definitely visible and it is related to the the contrast/brightness settings. I noticed it on Saving Private Ryan but surprisingly no on the Jeremiah Johnson DVD. I will be investigating it further. The solarization looks like sun glare coming through a window. You know how the bright sun shining through a window can blind any color or perceptible image making that area look like a ray of light. Thats what this looks like.


Dave


[This message has been edited by David Guill (edited 08-21-2001).]
 

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Dave-


Even though the Quadscan may *appear* to reduce the screen door, this is technically impossible. A pixel is a pixel, and no type of input can reduce the gap between two pixels. This is a fixed distance built into the LCD panel. Could the Quadscan be somehow getting the picture out of focus? This would reduce the screen door because the pixels start to "blur" toward each other on the screen.


Also, what you are calling "solarization" sounds like the image blooming several of us have seen. We have talked about this extensively at the Big Picture DVD forum for this projector (sorry about the cross-forum reference). If you are seeing this in really bright areas then it is probably the blooming we have seen. The other "solarization" effect we have started calling posterization and this really impacts the low detail areas of the image (blocky look). This effect I have not seen on my projector.


There is a fix in the service menu to eliminate the blooming, but it also impacts the brightness on Input 2. So we don't have a *perfect* fix for it yet.


The PLV-60 has not had a lot of topics on this forum for some odd reason, maybe everyone is happy with it. The dedicated PLV-60 forum over at the Big Picture sees a little more action.


Robert
 

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How far back is the projector with a 120" screen?

Also, can you comment on the lense shift? For instance, if the center of the lense is at 8', where does the top of the screen have to be (assuming the viewable part of the screen is 60")?

From what I have read, some feel the solarization may depend on the source material, which would explain why some see it and some don't.

Also, if it is viewable on the 13HD, then it seems nothing is different from the sanyo.
 

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Quote:
Even though the Quadscan may *appear* to reduce the screen door, this is technically impossible. A pixel is a pixel, and no type of input can reduce the gap between two pixels. This is a fixed distance built into the LCD panel. Could the Quadscan be somehow getting the picture out of focus? This would reduce the screen door because the pixels start to "blur" toward each other on the screen.
Yes. That is one of the reasons why I think the image appears a little "soft". The other reason is the "full" viewing mode which stretches the image to fill up the full with of the screen. One result of this "stretching" is the "softness" of the image. I have focused it several times and adjusted the size of the image and also used the "true" and "normal" viewing modes and each removes the "softness" of the image. However, the screen door does not get worse. It remains unnoticeable from reasonable viewing distances.


Quote:
Also, what you are calling "solarization" sounds like the image blooming several of us have seen. We have talked about this extensively at the Big Picture DVD forum for this projector (sorry about the cross-forum reference). If you are seeing this in really bright areas then it is probably the blooming we have seen. The other "solarization" effect we have started calling posterization and this really impacts the low detail areas of the image (blocky look). This effect I have not seen on my projector.
I thought it might be blooming and I turned the brightness down on the quadscan and recalibrated the contrast. This seemed to resolve most of it and actually sharpened up the detail in the image. Shadowy areas were a bit darker (as could be expected). It did not eliminate the "blooming" altogether. I've never seen blooming like this though. I guess I could turn the brightness way way down on the quadscan and essentially just use the brightness from the projector.


Then I guess I have not seen that "solarization". Do you have a picture of it? What is the "area" big picture that you are talking about where the discussion about the projector is?


Quote:
How far back is the projector with a 120" screen?
The lens of the projector is 14.5 feet from the screen.


Quote:
Also, can you comment on the lense shift? For instance, if the center of the lense is at 8', where does the top of the screen have to be (assuming the viewable part of the screen is 60")?
The projector is on a coffee table and I am using keystoning to "square" off the image. I'm not sure what you mean with the lens shift. It works like any other lens shift I have used. As long as I keep the viewing mode the same I do not have to shift the lens at all. The top is fixed when changing from 4:3 to 16:9 material.


Dave
 

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