[nick913]

Hey guys, this is my first post here and im looking for some opinions on my first sub.


To start off this sub is going to be used for almost only music, probably only 10 percent games and 10 percent movies.


I have a room that is 10x10x10 so it does not need to be huge.


Like the title says its a 350 dollar budget, it can go up a little like 20 30 dollars but im looking to keep it under 350.


The size of the sub is not a huge issue, I would like for it not to be HUGE but big and ugly shouldnt be a problem.


So im very new to this and ive seen lots of people suggest the speaker itself and the amplifier but i havent really seen the plans or any suggestions on how to build it. Do most people just kinda try whatever? or do they have a nice build in mind.


Also im going to be pairing these with the audioengine a5+ if that helps any.


If possible please add links to any suggestions. Also tell me if this is an unrealistic project, I would rather save untill its more practicle that to just waste 350 for something im not going to enjoy.


Also will this outperform prebuilt subs like the stf-2 and others in its class.


Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Jay1]

I recommend building a pair of subs instead of a single sub. Your room is small, and it sounds like output isn't your goal, just clean low end.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:vCfmDWdClRgJ:www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid%3D12174%26d%3D1131452352+adire+shiva+ported+alignment&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjWfscHSO2NcI-0t03cObf5nX21QmsjoXZU2QtuWWHvhYNwUwaE5RcuqkIexYmlMqH_XA4ip97QfHYpQk6tqMw1RxRhyr1unEVRGCI9wIwicmgmRHO047IbLkG45byFvsj-aTM8&sig=AHIEtbS8sI6fmBGzVY7IL84B_a-pZ_daWg



Scroll down to the 85L "Adire Alignment" box plans starting on page 10, that is what you're going to build a pair of. Dont pay attention to the port length they state, just use this 3" port kit at its full length

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=268-350


This will get you a sub tuned to 18 hz, with smooth roll off that should couple nicely with the room gain you will get in a small room. The woofers you will use are these Infinity 1260W's, which are really a great value as nothing comes close for the price

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1260w-1200-watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AVGEO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1339292972&sr=1-1&keywords=infinity+1260w


You would then use a 250 watt plate amp for each sub

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-803


You could always start out with one sub, as the pair goes right to the top of your budget, You would be around the HSU VTF2 for level of performance from a single sub for $190 in parts.

 

[nick913]

Wow thanks alot that really helped.


But you say output is not a problem.


Do you mean volume? because on occasion i like to crank them pretty loud.

 

[Jay1]

There won't be any problems in your room, especially if you build the pair. A vtf2 or outlaw plus with one port pluged is the output level and extension comparison


Edit: if you build the 95 liter plans from that Adire PDF you would get a lot more output down to 22hz, but having a flat anechoic response could be overpowering in a room your size

 

[nick913]

Ok thanks alot for the help i really appreciate it. I looked at the plans and it looks good but somewhat confusing

do you know of any tutorials to better explain it. I understand the side panels but not so much the interior ones.


Edit: Actually after looking at it, I understand it quite well. But do i need to cut my own hole for the amp or does it include it in the documents since i couldnt see it.


And out of curiosity why do you ignore their port length?

 

[Jay1]

If you want the amp attached to the sub, yes you need to cut a hole for it. Every amp has a different sized cutout, so you just have to find a panel without a brace in the way and make the cutout.


For the build using a 3" port, a lower tune puts it below the amps HPF which helps control port noise.

 

[LTD02]

since the goal here is mostly music, why not go for a higher tuning and smallish enclosure? 3 cubic feet with a 4" diameter port 12" long will give 27.5 hz tuning.


the 10x10x10 room is the worst possible shape for room modes (peaks and nulls created by constructive and destructive interference).

 

[nick913]

Yea Im pretty new to this so i dont know how much better or worse it would be but everyone seems to say that music never goes below certain frequencies and that only home theater setups do. I might be mistaken but the higher frequency setup might be better.


So for the higher frequency would you use same parts or is there a different setup to use?


Thanks for all the help guys.


Oh and if it helps i really only listen to classic rock, so its better for me if the bass is very tight as apposed to boomy.

 

[JimWilson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1414800/first-sub-for-350-dollars-help#post_22117500


the 10x10x10 room is the worst possible shape for room modes (peaks and nulls created by constructive and destructive interference).

+1


I see a DSP in his future...

 

[Jay1]

My thoughts for the small low tuned sub were he's going to get some pretty good PVG below 30hz, making for a flat room response. If he's expecting something really punchy a higher tune might be better.


A sealed 15 in an undersized box is another option. DCS385 in 3ft3 would be pretty powerful

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-206

 

[nick913]

Yea punchyness is definitely something that i would like to have. So if I want the punchyness would i stick with the same parts as before or would i need new parts. Also what would be a good tuning in your opinion.


sorry about the newbie quesions but like i said im a noob.


Oh and is there a certain place where you guys find subwoofer enclosures?

 

[Jay1]

Usually one builds their own box out of a 4'x8' sheet of wood from Lowe's/home depot to keep costs down. You can buy some nice flat packs from diysoundgroup, or assembled cabs from partsexpress.


A sealed 15 will be pretty hard to beat for a punchy music sub.

 

[nick913]

Sorry i guess i worded it wrong.


The enclosure bluprints that you gave me is what im talking about. Where did you get them? How did you know it was a good box to build?


I know im building it but it seems like its more complicated than building a box that (?) cu feet. and that will fit a sub. Or is it that easy?


The ones you gave me had somewhat complicated braces for the box.


Are the braces just whatever you want them to be or is there a proper way to build them for good sound?



I guess im just confused where people get the plans for the boxes they always look somewhat complicated.


If you have a tutorial or a guide to the whole enclosure thing i that would help alot.


Or if you could answer my questions that would help ALOT.


Sorry about all the questions but this is the first time ever looking to do anything with audio equipment and is is somewhat overwhelming.


Thanks for all the help youve made it much easier.

 

[Jinjuku]

Infinity 1262w wired for 2ohm. 1.5 cubic foot box with some simple 3" X .75" ply spanners going in each direction or some simple window bracing (search Google).


Get a Behringer iNuke 1000DSP (*you will have to fan mod it) or a Crown XLS 1000 Drive Core (silent but no DSP). Wait for a Guitar Center offer of 12-15% off so it will all fit your budget. The DSP is nice because the Infinity is going to have a 50Hz hump (but you may like that

).


You can always add a 2nd sub down the road this way.

 

[Jay1]

Responses are in bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick913  /t/1414800/first-sub-for-350-dollars-help#post_22119697


Sorry i guess i worded it wrong.

The enclosure bluprints that you gave me is what im talking about. Where did you get them? How did you know it was a good box to build?

Adire was a well known DIY company that went out of business, they made multiple plans for their various drivers. I simply googled the plans for their 12" woofer. It's good because they're common sized enclosures for a 12" sub, and you wanted detailed plans.


I know im building it but it seems like its more complicated than building a box that (?) cu feet. and that will fit a sub. Or is it that easy?


It is almost that easy. I modeled that infinity driver in the spec'd enclosures with WinISD, which shows that they will work well. You should always find out if a driver will work in a given enclosure. People around here arent going to recommend something without checking if and how it will work.


The ones you gave me had somewhat complicated braces for the box.

Are the braces just whatever you want them to be or is there a proper way to build them for good sound?

You want to tie the largest open areas of a panel together, as they're the most prone to flexing. Something as simple as strips of wood, or dowel rods running side-to-side, top-bottom, and front-back, as close to the center of the panel as you can reasonably get are all that's really needed for a well braced box.


I guess im just confused where people get the plans for the boxes they always look somewhat complicated.

If you have a tutorial or a guide to the whole enclosure thing i that would help alot.

People are creative, and this is DIY. Do what works best for you, and learn as you go. The only tutorial I can offer are the multiple build threads available, check the "master list" sticky. Think about how you think your box should work, and then draw everything out.


Or if you could answer my questions that would help ALOT.

Sorry about all the questions but this is the first time ever looking to do anything with audio equipment and is is somewhat overwhelming.

Thanks for all the help youve made it much easier.

It really is as simple as building the proper sized box for a given driver. With porting the volume is a lot more critical, along with the port dimensions. For a sealed box it really dosent have to be precise, it just comes down to whether or not you need to control the drivers excursion by using a smaller then "ideal" box.


For example, you could build a 19" cube, cut a pair of 4"x16.5" strips and make a + brace for the top-bottom-side-side, then cut four 2"x16.5" strips and place them front-back in an x around the woofer cutout. This would give you a 3ft3 (85l) box. You could use this for the spec'd Infinity sub discussed above, or you could leave it sealed and stick a 15" like this in there (still with the 250w amp).

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-206




You will definitely get loud and punchy. This is a case where the small box is controlling the woofers xmax. You would still get more low end then these graphs show, because of your small room.

 

[whipdancer]

I'd like to chime in from a another newbie's point of view. I built a tapped horn (I think) that, frankly, rocks. I used a Bill Fitzmaurice design (BFM design - www.billfitzmaurice.com ) and I do love it. I've had several store bought versions and there really is no comparison between those and what I've got now. My movie room is about 11x23x8 and a single sub rocks. I'm using a THT-LP for my room, but I considered a Table tuba as well as a standard THT. Just throwing it out there for you as my total cost (driver, materials, plans, amp) was less than $350 (I'm pretty sure - definitely less than $400).

 

[nick913]

Thanks for this guys it really clears up alot. I think im going to enjoy this new found hobby.


Ok so im fairly confident in building the setup you suggested jay1.


But i have another question. Should i do ported or sealed? I know the one you sent is ported but i hear that sealed is better for music.


Is that just a myth or is there something to it.


Oh and you mentioned the frequency and the punchyness a few posts back, but im a bit confused. Should i tune it to a higher frequency or is it good as you posted originally.


Or do you think i should go with the new suggestion of the 19in cube with the 15 in woofer.


Sorry about all the questions.

 

[Jay1]

The end of my last post showed you a sealed sub, I think that might actually be your best bet. I would build two of those as well even though it does push your budget. You could start with one, and then acquire the stuff for a 2nd.

 

[nick913]

Ok so since its sealed all it will need is a hole for the woofer and one for the amplifier. And thank you this really has been a huge help.


And is the 19 in cubed box big enough for this speaker.


And is the 15 in good for rock. It seems like most rumors of big speakers are wrong but i want to get the optimal size for primarily classic rock.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-468


Would that be a noticeably better subwoofer?

 

[Jinjuku]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nick913  /t/1414800/first-sub-for-350-dollars-help/0_100#post_22119998


Ok so since its sealed all it will need is a hole for the woofer and one for the amplifier. And thank you this really has been a huge help.

And is the 19 in cubed box big enough for this speaker.

And is the 15 in good for rock. It seems like most rumors of big speakers are wrong but i want to get the optimal size for primarily classic rock.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-468

Would that be a noticeably better subwoofer?

The Dayton HF is a nice driver and will require a larger box. I still say get one 1262w and wire for 2ohm and the Crown XLS 1000 Drive Core amp. 1.5 sealed cubic foot box. This will keep you around your budget and allow for a 2nd sub later on.