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For true 1080p you need a 9" set, and unless you get REALLY lucky by buying an as is one, you won't find a good one for $1500.


Some of the higher end 8" sets will also do 1080p well, but again, you'll pay more from a reseller that will back it with a warranty and tech support. You can probably find an as is good working one here in the classified area for about $1500 though.
 

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I might add that for the true blacks and shadow detail that properly set up CRT is famous for, any light hitting your screen will ruin them. You can curb this by going with a torus screen, with some added cost, but even then, its best to make sure there is VERY little if NO light hitting your screen other than the projected image. Even the brightest CRT PJ will end up with washed out shadow detail and untrue black if there is stray light hitting the screen and reflecting toward your eyes, and yes this also helps ruin the appearance of the contrast that out machines have to offer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


I really want a 1080p24 capable projector that can take a 1080p24 signal from a blu-ray player.I want to spend about $1,500 for a used one. Is that even possible? Or would I have to settle for 720p/1080i? I'm getting tired of waiting for a digital projector to match what even a horrible CRT can do as far as dynamic contrast and shadow detail. So until then, I'm considering taking the CRT projector plunge. Any advice? Where should I buy? How many hours is too much? What refresh rates do I need? 72hz or 96hz, I heard 48hz flickers too much? I also need about 880 lumens (35 foot lumens) because I want to project onto a 92" 16:9 screen and have enough lumens so I don't have to turn off the lights 100%. I also need the projector to be able to show no overscan whatsoever because I plan on using it as an HTPC too.

What do you plan to use as the video path to get 1080p from blu-ray to the projector? Do you already have a video processor like the Lumagen HDQ? Is that a separate budget?


For refresh rate, 72Hz will be best.


92" 16:9 is 49"x84". So that will be bright with minty 9" tubes. When you say "35 foot lumens" do you mean 35 foot lamberts? How did you determine that requirement? That's VERY bright. Even on a small high-gain screen you might require a torus to get that many ftL.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


I really want a 1080p24 capable projector that can take a 1080p24 signal from a blu-ray player.

You don't want this without a video processor. 24 Hz would flicker horribly. This is why 24 fps film is shown in the theater doubled to 48 fps. You need to do at least 48 Hz refresh, but 72 Hz is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


I want to spend about $1,500 for a used one. Is that even possible?

No. The video processor alone will cost this much, then the 9" PJ will cost $3000+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


Or would I have to settle for 720p/1080i?

Have you seen 1080i on a good 8" (which can be had for $1500)? On 99.99% of film content, there is no difference between 1080i and 1080p. In our area, I've watched the exact same HD DVDs on my 8" machine in 1080i then on two local guys 9" machines (G90 and modded 1209/2). The difference is not huge by any stretch of the imagination. In 1080i, you get occasional interlacing artifacts but not that bad at all. In fact, the biggest differences were the 9" machines were just a bit brighter, and a very small bit sharper, but that really was all.


1080i at 72 or 96 refresh is really nice. Even if I had the cash laying around, I would not upgrade to a 9" because an LC 8" is just were the smart money is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


I want to project onto a 92" 16:9 screen and have enough lumens so I don't have to turn off the lights 100%.

Don't buy a CRT.


Digitals don't do better in ambient light because their white is whiter, they do better because their black is grayer.


In other words, a given amount of ambient light will wash out the CRT picture more because the black is actually black.


Dave
 

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Dave, I know you're a purist, but does ANY CRT'er really watch in pitch darkness? I don't... There's always some ambient light when I watch. A candle, dim lamp that I leave on a dimmer...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme /forum/post/0


Dave, I know you're a purist, but does ANY CRT'er really watch in pitch darkness? I don't... There's always some ambient light when I watch. A candle, dim lamp that I leave on a dimmer...

I'm in pitch black (so black that little girls scared of the darkness have become scared in our theater on a fade to black because they could see nothing--my daughter is used to it though
).


And yes I may be a purist, but basically if you look at your screen with the projector off with the lighting the way you watch it, that is as black as black will get.


Let me take an example. Let's say you want to watch with .05 ft lamberts of ambient light on the screen. Well, with the CRT, you are washing out alot of the low level detail because the CRT does black at .00001 or so ft. lamberts. So, the bottom 3-5% of your picture is washed out. Now, take a digital whose low end is already washed out because of the elevated black levels. You can actually see the detail in the bottom 3-5% of the picture. It doesn't look good, but you can see it.


My point is, if you want a home theater, get a CRT. If what you really want is just a big TV, get a digital. Those who watch to watch sports with lights on simply need a digital.


Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99 /forum/post/0


My point is, if you want a home theater, get a CRT. If what you really want is just a big TV, get a digital. Those who watch to watch sports with lights on simply need a digital.

Yep. No one is going to be able to provide 92", 35 ftL, and 1080P digital connectivity for $1500.


IMHO, a DLP or DILA RPTV from Costco will be closer to what I think the OP is looking for...


JVC 1080P 56" HD-ILA Projection HDTV

Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Item # 133714

$2499


Mitsubishi 57" 1080P DLP HDTV

Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Aspect Ratio: 16:9

Item # 121105

$2,499.99 Shipping & Handling included


Smaller and $999 above his stated budget, but more affordable, simpler, and much more obtainable than any CRT setup that we could recommend to a first time CRT'er for viewing in ambient light.


For $1500 CRT, you could realistically obtain a stunning 1080i. At 92" (49"x84") it would be sufficiently bright and very watchable with reasonable ambient room light (recessed lights not directly shining on the surface of the screen and no daytime family rooms with sliding glass doors). $1500 could get you a Marquee with nice tubes and a DVI/component input card (for 720p or 1080i... not [email protected]).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence /forum/post/0


Yep. No one is going to be able to provide 92", 35 ftL, and 1080P digital connectivity for $1500.


IMHO, a DLP or DILA RPTV from Costco will be closer to what I think the OP is looking for...


JVC 1080P 56" HD-ILA Projection HDTV

Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Item # 133714

$2499


Mitsubishi 57" 1080P DLP HDTV

Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Aspect Ratio: 16:9

Item # 121105

$2,499.99 Shipping & Handling included


Smaller and $999 above his stated budget, but more affordable, simpler, and much more obtainable than any CRT setup that we could recommend to a first time CRT'er for viewing in ambient light.


For $1500 CRT, you could realistically obtain a stunning 1080i. At 92" (49"x84") it would be sufficiently bright and very watchable with reasonable ambient room light (recessed lights not directly shining on the surface of the screen and no daytime family rooms with sliding glass doors). $1500 could get you a Marquee with nice tubes and a DVI/component input card (for 720p or 1080i... not [email protected]).

What about the Hitachi CRT RP sets still being sold? Great bang for the buck now.


Marc
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0


If you're not watching in pitch black, then really the one thing that sets CRTs apart (on/off CR) is being completely wasted. Why bother with a CRT then?

Well, I would say "the main thing" or "a major thing", not the "one thing".


Many of us also like the "look" of the CRT picture better then the "look" of digitals. I don't think we are yet at the point that CR is the ONLY reason to have a CRT.


Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman /forum/post/0


What about the Hitachi CRT RP sets still being sold? Great bang for the buck now.

I haven't really shopped for RP sets lately. The ones I mentioned were only notional examples, not recommendations.


I just remembered going to costco last weekend and being amazed at how cheap the 60"+ displays have become, so I just went to costco.com and searched on 1080p and found those 2 for $2499. If the OP can settle for 1080i, 720p, or 768p, he can get even larger RPTVs for
 

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I found a G70 with 6k hours and tubes that rate 9/7/8 RGB, and was able to buy & freight it to me for just under $1500. So it can be done but you have to make some concessions.. And I already had a Samsung DirecTV receiver that I'm using to up-scale DVD, so I'm getting by without a stand-alone scaler for now.


I do tend to agree with the others here, a digital may be the way to go for your needs..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeylord /forum/post/0


I found a G70 with 6k hours and tubes that rate 9/7/8 RGB, and was able to buy & freight it to me for just under $1500. So it can be done but you have to make some concessions...

Yep... concessions like not getting 35 ftL and not getting [email protected]
 

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He couldn't get decent lights on viewing without a high gain screen, preferrably silver so black still looks somewhat black with lights on. Otherwise nothing looks really black and you'll have to drive the tubes hard enough to cause burn in using it as a pc monitor.


Forget crt projectors in your case unless you want to DIY a silver screen or buy a UHG torus also. That means you'd be looking at 1080i for video and xga to sxga for desktop. 1080i desktop is annoying with line twidder and text even on a 92" screen is still often too small to be readable no matter how you adjust it in the options.


What you ask for is exactly how I use my setup now, but until I got a torus it wasn't worth while with the lights on at all. Now it is, and it's my main pc monitor and racks up 10 hours a day sometimes. I usually run the desktop at xga so everything is easily readable from 1.5x viewing distance. Now lights on or sunlight bleeding through the blinds is no big deal, before with a white screen it was worthless.



Troy
 

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35 Ftl??? 10 is heaps. 35 will drive you out of the room.


I always watch in pitch darkness...otherwise what's the point?


And what Person99 (Dave) said in post #5 is spot on - I agree 100%.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


Around 16 to 18 Ftl is required for cinema, and 35 Ftl for reference material
This discussion is consistent with the 12-15 ftL numbers I've always heard:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL /forum/post/0


For reference SMPTE standards suggest a range of 12-22ftl with 16ftl or greater preferred and less than 10ftl unacceptable. But, ideally everything should be 16 or greater with what they term gate open. Gate open means no film in the projector. When you add film that ideal of 16ftl now becomes ~12-13 ftl. 12ftl is also the minimum for D-cinema standards....


If you have the right environment (basically a cave) you can get away with 8-9ftl...


The formula for this is simply ftl=lumens/area x gain. Area is in square feet (height x width using feet not inches). There are a number of calculators that do this for you. Scott's calculator seems correct.

Again, I don't think you'll be able to get [email protected] at 35 ftL from a CRT on a 92" screen, especially for
 

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Well you have to 'fiddle' with all CRTs to get a watchable pix.


I dunno, like I said, as is for $1K, you're taking your chances. Someone here got a SCREAMING good deal overseas on a top of the line Vision 1. I don't think he's had 10 hours of viewing as it keeps breaking down.


I happened to buy some other sets from the same seller, paid almost nothing for them, but had to V ERY carefully go through each set and do massive repairs. The sets had been gone over by (apparently) non techs. It took a lot of work, but that's what I do well, repair CRTs. Again, check the classifieds here. $1K for a top of the line 8" set in good shape is on the low side. For something on eBay as is, it's on the high side..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta /forum/post/0


I used that calculator, it said for a 16:[email protected]" if I'm using 100% of the lumens I'd have

35.04 Ftl with a 880 lumens projector.


I'm very diligent, a person PMed me saying that a very good 8" tube its very possible to get [email protected] for under $1,000 used, if you're willing to fiddle with calibrating? Such as an NEC XG110? I won't need a "processor, I'm planning on getting a new computer with a Blu-ray drive and using an HTPC to output 72hz.


Nah, you'd want to run 1080i 72hz, or 1080i 96hz from a PC to an 8"er. Although Mike Parker has been running a modded Marquee 8"er at 1080p 72hz, it's basically beyond the capabilities of all CRT projectors, except a handfull of the very best 9"ers ($$$). The mods aren't cheap, and no way could you squeeze them into your budget.



A high refresh rate 1080i will look better. Much sharper. It really is a perfect match for an 8" LC EM focus CRT.


And I'll say it again, I have a measured 10 Ftl on my XG LC and it's HEAPS bright enough. 10-12 Ftl is fine. 35FtL would be unbearable on a large screen at 1-1.5x width.
 
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