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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good Morning. Not sure is this belongs here or in the speaker section.


Thanks in advance for the help. All advice welcome !

Finally got all the parts for my first system and will be buying all of the cables and things today. Parts are listed below. I know to use monoprice but my question is which exact cables to purchase ( 12-18AWG, and the regular vs the CL2 Rated 2 wire ). Also, i plan to try to use banana plugs for the convenience. Are there some that are better than others? Anything else i may need to purchase or know before beginning since this will be my first time setting everything up and wiring the HT system. Thanks in advance for the help. All advice welcome !


Also, i plan on running all of the rear wiring thru raceways so they are hidden a little better if that makes a difference. Room is square and quite large as well.


Parts List:

60" Sharp LCD, Custom HTPC, all components connected via HDMI

Receiver - Onkyo TX-NR709

Fronts - Polk Monitor60 Series II

Rears - Polk Monitor30 Series II

Center - Polk CS2 Series II

Sub - BIC F12
 

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Check out monoprice.com for the best prices on sub cables, speaker wire and HDMI cables. I prefer in wall speaker wire as well. Most likely 14 guage should be fine for you. Make sure you get a decent sub cable that is make for subwoofers and not just any old RCA cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20808496


Check out monoprice.com for the best prices on sub cables, speaker wire and HDMI cables. I prefer in wall speaker wire as well. Most likely 14 guage should be fine for you. Make sure you get a decent sub cable that is make for subwoofers and not just any old RCA cable.

This work for sub cable? Cable Link
 

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Banana plugs to me are another useless connection point. If you don't plan on changing out pieces of your system frequently then there is no reason for them. If your the kind of person who puts your system together and forgets about it...then there is no reason for it. Some speakers will not accept banana plugs easily either. Make sure yours will fit.
 

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drittiner, all good advice so far. +1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20808496


Make sure you get a decent sub cable that is make for subwoofers and not just any old RCA cable.

Out of curiosity, what makes a cable a 'sub cable'?


FWIW, I have no problem with the RG6 lead you linked, nor with the other monoprice issue.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 /forum/post/0


drittiner, all good advice so far. +1.


Out of curiosity, what makes a cable a 'sub cable'?


FWIW, I have no problem with the RG6 lead you linked, nor with the other monoprice issue.

Smaller cables will actually choke a subwoofer signal. You will actually gain 3-6 db with a decent sub cable. I found when I was using a radio shack y-splitter it cut my signal so much that my eq was not clipping. When I added a subwoofer grade y-splitter...it actually started clipping my eq.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20815965


Smaller cables will actually choke a subwoofer signal.

That is simply incorrect. If there is 3-6dB difference, the cable is faulty.


The resistance of the cable is trivial, a fraction of an ohm and the source Z will be a couple of orders of magnitude higher than that, and the load Z another couple of orders. Likewise inductance will be very low, and irrelevant at sub frequencies, and the capacitance won't have an effect until the cable is km long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20815965


You will actually gain 3-6 db with a decent sub cable. I found when I was using a radio shack y-splitter it cut my signal so much that my eq was not clipping. When I added a subwoofer grade y-splitter...it actually started clipping my eq.

I think you are confusing a set up and/or loading issue with the cable itself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 /forum/post/0


That is simply incorrect. If there is 3-6dB difference, the cable is faulty.


The resistance of the cable is trivial, a fraction of an ohm and the source Z will be a couple of orders of magnitude higher than that, and the load Z another couple of orders. Likewise inductance will be very low, and irrelevant at sub frequencies, and the capacitance won't have an effect until the cable is km long.


I think you are confusing a set up and/or loading issue with the cable itself.

I can only say what I have experienced...if your just trying to prove me wrong then you are right
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816021


I can only say what I have experienced...if your just trying to prove me wrong then you are right

It's basic electrical engineering. Cables make stuff all difference, and a thinner cable will not 'choke' bass.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 /forum/post/0


It's basic electrical engineering. Cables make stuff all difference, and a thinner cable will not 'choke' bass.

Why did you ask me if you knew the answer then?? Are you just trying to prove people wrong anyway you can by spitting out a bunch of technobabble in a thread that is titled "first timer needs help". A little counter productive to the whole idea of trying to help this guy out.


If you use a cheap cable it will work okay as a subwoofer cable since the higher capacitance in these cheap cables deteriorates high frequencies more than low ones. Bass frequencies do travel more effectively on solid core cables. By using a better cable more information is traveling on the cable which leads to more db's.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816032


Why did you ask me if you knew the answer then?? Are you just trying to prove people wrong anyway you can by spitting out a bunch of technobabble in a thread that is titled "first timer needs help".

I was wondering what angle you were coming from. Certainly the better shielding and lower impedance it likely has could be of benefit. Otherwise, what you said is incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816032


A little counter productive to the whole idea of trying to help this guy out.

Counterproductive as in the incorrect assertions you made in the previous post and the ones below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816032


If you use a cheap cable it will work okay as a subwoofer cable since the higher capacitance in these cheap cables deteriorates high frequencies more than low ones.

Capacitance is irrelevent in a sub cable. Even the worst throw away/freebie cable I have ever tested on my LCR bridge was no more than about 350pF/m.


A 20m sub cable (much less common) would have a capacitance of 7nF, or a capacitive reactance of 227kΩ at 100Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816032


Bass frequencies do travel more effectively on solid core cables.

Incorrect. Solid or stranded will have no effect for any practical conductor used in audio. What you maybe confusing is skin effect having an effect on the HF of inappropriately selected conductors, but it still has no real relevance in audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 /forum/post/20816032


By using a better cable more information is traveling on the cable which leads to more db's.

^^Now this is just incorrect.


Using the specs of some thin cables I have (inner is 29AWG), resistance is about 0.23Ω/m or 4.6Ω/20m.


Inductance was 400nH/m or 8uH/20m which is 0.1Ω/20m at 100Hz.


Total series impedance (R+L) /of 4.7Ωm;. This forms a part of the resistive divider with the input impedance of the amp. In the wiki link, Z1 is the cable impedance and Z2 the amp input impedance.


Using 4.7Ω and 10kΩ (a not uncommon input impedance for an amp) and 1V in the input the the amp is 0.99953V or 0.004dB.


Factoring in the capacitance, which is effectively in parallel with Z2 or the amp input impedance 10k//227k = 9578Ω

Recalculating for this as Z2, the loss is 0.0043dB.


Use a cable like the Belden 1505A , L is a bit less, C is 1/7th and R is 1/7th and it gets lower still. Same with a shorter cable.


I did not include the Zout of the source, but that will reduce the losses calculated above.


As I said earlier, I liked the RG6 cable you selected, and for the $3 difference over the cheaper monoprice also linked, I probably would have bought it too. But because it looked better, not for any performance issues.


As I also said, it appeared to me that the difference you found was due to some set up error, such as connecting a line output to another line output where it will see a near short and drive down the output voltage of (almost) any line stage. I've done it myself by mistake.
 
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