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Thank you so much indeed. Was not fully sure that updating OS is not enough for proper integer frame rates playback. Looks like I'll have to update Infuse too. Well, the thing is I hate subscriptions and FireCore announced they will have now only subscription, no purchase. So I thought to avoid getting this subscription and stay on my purchased version :) but seems no way
Did you double check? Cause Netflix did get the fix immediately after 14.5 beta added it, so Infuse 5 might also have, or you can ask at the Firecore forum. You might not need to spend that much if you don't really need to. My advice would be to wait until there's a sale for the lifetime sub, if you can. Infuse 7 has already been announced to come soon so there might be some sales.
 

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Did you double check? Cause Netflix did get the fix immediately after 14.5 beta added it, so Infuse 5 might also have, or you can ask at the Firecore forum.
Most apps (like Netflix) didn't need an update to support the integer refresh rates added with tvOS 14.5. But Infuse was an exception. Before @firecore fixed it (they already did before the final release of 14.5), integer and fractional 24fps content was both played back at 24.000Hz. So there was indeed the need for a fix for Infuse. But I doubt that they backported it to Infuse 5.
 

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Thanks a lot, have to check this option, overlooked it.
Infuse 7 is out now and they have a promo for users that bought Pro versions 4/5/6 that will give you Infuse Pro 7 for free for one year. :)
 

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Infuse 7 is out now and they have a promo for users that bought Pro versions 4/5/6 that will give you Infuse Pro 7 for free for one year. :)
Yes, they do. The thing is that this give some pleasure to those, who prefer subscription. As far as I don't, my only option is lifetime subscription which looks (at least on paper) same as purchase (pay and forget) but more expensive but with major upgrades. And in case of lifetime this promo is just a delay of payment, which is good, but price tends more to increase in time, not to go down :). The only reason to use this promo for me might be sort of getting familiar with new design etc. but in my case even if I don't like the design and new bells and whistles I'll have to upgrade because of 24.000 compatibility :). Sо, I'm sort of in a bobsleigh chute :).
 

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I still see a lot of stutter watching the (British) show "Humans" on Amazon Prime through an AppleTV HD on a Sony 40ES projector. I'd assumed this was a 24Hz problem. But after updating to tvOS 14.5, making sure my aTV was set to 59.94 Hz (which my projector supports) and making sure Match Frame Rate is off, I still see a lot of judder or stutter with that show.

No idea what's going on. :)
 

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I still see a lot of stutter watching the (British) show "Humans" on Amazon Prime through an AppleTV HD on a Sony 40ES projector. I'd assumed this was a 24Hz problem. But after updating to tvOS 14.5, making sure my aTV was set to 59.94 Hz (which my projector supports) and making sure Match Frame Rate is off, I still see a lot of judder or stutter with that show.

No idea what's going on. :)
If match frame rate is disabled, your ATV will just stay at 59.940Hz, so the tvOS 14.5 update won’t make a difference. To benefit from the added support for integer refresh rates, you have to enable the feature, so ATV can match the frame rate of the video automatically.

Apart from that, as it’s a British show, it’s not unlikely that Humans was shot with 25fps. So switching your ATV to 50Hz should give you smooth playback in that case. Or as mentioned: just enable the match frame rate feature so you don’t have to worry about the frame rate of the content, as ATV will switch to the matching refresh rate automatically.
 

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If match frame rate is disabled, your ATV will just stay at 59.940Hz, so the tvOS 14.5 update won’t make a difference. To benefit from the added support for integer refresh rates, you have to enable the feature, so ATV can match the frame rate of the video automatically.

Apart from that, as it’s a British show, it’s not unlikely that Humans was shot with 25fps. So switching your ATV to 50Hz should give you smooth playback in that case. Or as mentioned: just enable the match frame rate feature so you don’t have to worry about the frame rate of the content, as ATV will switch to the matching refresh rate automatically.
My projector doesn’t support 24.000 or 25.000 Hz. I guess I misunderstood, thinking that aTV now understood 24 and 25 Hz and would smartly interpolate up to the fixed frame rate to largely eliminate the stutter.
 

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My projector doesn’t support 24.000 or 25.000 Hz. I guess I misunderstood, thinking that aTV now understood 24 and 25 Hz and would smartly interpolate up to the fixed frame rate to largely eliminate the stutter.
Are you sure the HW40ES doesn't support 24.000Hz? I find that very surprising...
 

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My projector doesn’t support 24.000 or 25.000 Hz. I guess I misunderstood, thinking that aTV now understood 24 and 25 Hz and would smartly interpolate up to the fixed frame rate to largely eliminate the stutter.
As mentioned, when your ATV is running at fixed 59.940Hz, the situation is the same like before tvOS 14.5. ATV will do a frame rate conversion to 59.940fps, no matter of the original frame rate. For 23.976fps content, you will get a 3:2 pulldown, for 29.970fps content ATV will just do frame doubeling. But getting 25/50fps to 59.940fps is problematic. Personally I don't even know how that conversion will work, but it's no surprise that the result of this won't look very smooth at the end.

The problem this thread was about is that ATV supported only the output of fractional 23.976/29.970/59.940Hz refresh rates, but lacked support for the integer 24./30./60.000Hz rates. But there is also content out there that uses those integer frame rates. So before tvOS 14.5 ATV couldn't match these rates with its match frame rate feature. This caused additional frame glitches due to the mismatch. With tvOS 14.5 Apple added support for those integer rates. But as mentioned, running your ATV with match frame rate disabled, this won't make a difference.

But connected to your projector, ATV should detect which refresh rates it supports and which not. And I'm quite sure that it should at least also support 50Hz, which is also fine for 25fps content. So enabling the match frame rate feature, your ATV could at least switch to 50HZ for such content and give you smooth playback this way.
 

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Are you sure the HW40ES doesn't support 24.000Hz? I find that very surprising...
Sony HW40ES should support 24.000 I guess
The manual lists only 23.976. It doesn’t list 24.000 as a supported frame rate. It also doesn’t support 29.97 or 30 Hz either. That’s a recurring annoyance when watching some content ripped from DVD.

As mentioned, when your ATV is running at fixed 59.940Hz, the situation is the same like before tvOS 14.5. ATV will do a frame rate conversion to 59.940fps, no matter of the original frame rate. For 23.976fps content, you will get a 3:2 pulldown, for 29.970fps content ATV will just do frame doubeling. But getting 25/50fps to 59.940fps is problematic. Personally I don't even know how that conversion will work, but it's no surprise that the result of this won't look very smooth at the end.

The problem this thread was about is that ATV supported only the output of fractional 23.976/29.970/59.940Hz refresh rates, but lacked support for the integer 24./30./60.000Hz rates. But there is also content out there that uses those integer frame rates. So before tvOS 14.5 ATV couldn't match these rates with its match frame rate feature. This caused additional frame glitches due to the mismatch. With tvOS 14.5 Apple added support for those integer rates. But as mentioned, running your ATV with match frame rate disabled, this won't make a difference.

But connected to your projector, ATV should detect which refresh rates it supports and which not. And I'm quite sure that it should at least also support 50Hz, which is also fine for 25fps content. So enabling the match frame rate feature, your ATV could at least switch to 50HZ for such content and give you smooth playback this way.
Thanks. I’ll toggle back to match frame rate and see if the troublesome show looks better. Maybe the projector manual isn’t exhaustive on supported frame rates and 24.000 and 25.000 are supported.
 

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The manual lists only 23.976. It doesn’t list 24.000 as a supported frame rate. It also doesn’t support 29.97 or 30 Hz either. That’s a recurring annoyance when watching some content ripped from DVD.


Thanks. I’ll toggle back to match frame rate and see if the troublesome show looks better. Maybe the projector manual isn’t exhaustive on supported frame rates and 24.000 and 25.000 are supported.
When you enable frame rate, look just below that enable for any frame rates lacking support. If they're listed, you can test each one. If they pass, they're added to your frame rate support. Just saying you should know what your projector supports before you play the content.

And maybe there's an info button you press while playing that tells you were the input framerate is- my TV does this with the info button but doesn't discern integer from fractional input refresh rates. This at least tells me it's native framerate when indicating less than 60.

What I don't like is apps that don't use the Apple matching range and frame rate API. They're input to TV is locked at 60 and may drop frames anyway. Since most popular apps are HDR, this isn't a major issue but an annoyance that I still see it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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aka jfinnie
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The manual lists only 23.976. It doesn’t list 24.000 as a supported frame rate. It also doesn’t support 29.97 or 30 Hz either. That’s a recurring annoyance when watching some content ripped from DVD.
Have you actually tried them? I think that support for the integer rate 24.00 is pretty much compulsory in the HDMI standard, but I could be wrong. And the other rates, if not directly supported, will just be doubled. That is the default behaviour of the AppleTV anyway (at 4k at least) - 25p is output as 50p even if the display supports both.
 

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Ok, thanks for the input and getting me turned back around on AppleTV frame rate behavior.

I switched my AppleTV over to Match Frame Rate for Amazon Prime’s British show “Humans”, and it seemed smooth. I checked the Projector it said it was running at 1080 / 50p. I don’t know if it’s 50.000 for a double 25.000 show or the fractional equivalents. But I know I’ve tried the various settings in the past and always had stutter, so I’m going to take it as a benefit from the tvOS 14.5 addition of integer frame rates. :)
 

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Ok, thanks for the input and getting me turned back around on AppleTV frame rate behavior.

I switched my AppleTV over to Match Frame Rate for Amazon Prime’s British show “Humans”, and it seemed smooth. I checked the Projector it said it was running at 1080 / 50p. I don’t know if it’s 50.000 for a double 25.000 show or the fractional equivalents. But I know I’ve tried the various settings in the past and always had stutter, so I’m going to take it as a benefit from the tvOS 14.5 addition of integer frame rates. :)
25 & 50 integer rate has always been supported fine, there are no fractional rates for 25 and 50. It is only 24, 30 and 60 integer rates that have been added in this update.
 

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25 & 50 integer rate has always been supported fine, there are no fractional rates for 25 and 50. It is only 24, 30 and 60 integer rates that have been added in this update.
At this point I don't recall if I first had problems with 24.000 rates, tried turning off Match Frame Rate, and then had problems there recently with watching a 25.000 show...or if it was my user error all along and I never had the aTV configurated right.

But things are working pretty well now, finally, so I'll assume it was Apple's fault and AVS helped me get it sorted after Apple fixed their software. :)
 

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At this point I don't recall if I first had problems with 24.000 rates, tried turning off Match Frame Rate, and then had problems there recently with watching a 25.000 show...or if it was my user error all along and I never had the aTV configurated right.
It's more than likely the latter. On 25.00 shows if you have constant poor motion it is usually because you are playing 25.00 at 60.00.
The issues with integer vs non-integer just manifest as a single dropped frame every 41s in the case of 24.00 vs 23.976.

Note that even with match rate enabled, not all apps will correctly match 25.00 to 25.00 or 50.00 - some apps don't have rate match enabled. And some apps match some content and not others! So in the UK, BBC live TV streaming does not rate match, and so motion is poor if the UI is set to 60Hz, but from their media library rate matching does work.
 

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... Apart from that, as it’s a British show, it’s not unlikely that Humans was shot with 25fps ...
The vast majority of British shows are now shot at 24/23.976. The progression mirrored the US's transition from shooting "TV" shows at 29.97/59.94 to shooting at 24/23.976. (The rapid advent of streaming platforms helped accelerate this shift.) In both countries some sports and news content are the big holdouts re sticking with the older "video" or "broadcast" standards of PAL 25fps and NTSC 29.97/59.94.
 

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The vast majority of British shows are now shot at 24/23.976. The progression mirrored the US's transition from shooting "TV" shows at 29.97/59.94 to shooting at 24/23.976. (The rapid advent of streaming platforms helped accelerate this shift.) In both countries some sports and news content are the big holdouts re sticking with the older "video" or "broadcast" standards of PAL 25fps and NTSC 29.97/59.94.
Talking about Netflix content, I would agree. Basically all recent Netflix originals were released with 24fps, even shows from PAL regions (e.g. Biohackers, although it’s a German production). But on the other hand the new Netflix show “The Irregulars”, which is a British production, was released with 25fps. And from my personal experience on other streaming services, I can only say that most (if not all) European shows I’ve watched so far were using 25fps.

But that’s just my personal observation, so I don’t want to say that you are wrong about that there is some transition going on. But talking about “Humans”, I checked the frame rate after posting and it’s really 25fps. At least here on Prime Video Germany. And as the user’s judder was gone for the show with his ATV set to 50Hz, I guess the same is true for Prime Video US.
 
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