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Has anyone seen a problem with the ATV 4k playing 25fps at 25Hz? running 14.5
I typically watch 25fps videos at 25Hz on my Samsung Q70R TV (no projector). With my Apple TV 4K gen 2 (2021) and tvOS 14.6, I recently watched a 25fps video in the Amazon Prime app at 25Hz, and the motion looked fine to me.
 

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@AndreNewman - I'll give mine a go this evening.
If I recall the motion ends up quite different between 25p and 50p out to JVC projectors (or at least it did on my X7900), and I can't fully remember the detail. I know this from watching the same title coming out of the AppleTV at 50p and the Nvidia Shield 2019 at 25p, I think it was Top Boy I was watching at the time.
Interesting comment, I wonder if my problem is actually the projector, that would be bad...

I'll try MadVR at 25Hz too just to be certain.

I was thinking that it could be related to de-interlacing with iPlayer stuff but it's the same with 720p25 and Netflix 2160p25.

H'mm, really don't want to have to get a new projector, or a Lumagen!!
 

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I typically watch 25fps videos at 25Hz on my Samsung Q70R TV (no projector). With my Apple TV 4K gen 2 (2021) and tvOS 14.6, I recently watched a 25fps video in the Amazon Prime app at 25Hz, and the motion looked fine to me.
Thanks, shouldn't matter if it's a projector or TV, I don't have an Amazon Prime account.

I didn't think 14.6 was out for AppleTV yet, will update and try again tonight.
 

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afaik the ATV doubles 25Hz up to 50Hz, maybe that results in problems with your Projector. You could fix the output in the Video settings to 25Hz for testing
 

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Not sure if you're referring to surround, or all Boost functionality.

The info on surround lack of availability comes straight out of the FAQ from NowTV. Could be out of date though, let me know if you find anything that plays in surround on the AppleTV4k in NowTV.


Yes you would need to install the developer HUD, and even then I'm not 100% you'll get the info in the new NowTV app. As they've got their own UI overlays for the player controls, it might imply they've done all the playback themselves (I think the HUD can only display diagnostics for HLS streams through Apple's framework, but I'm not sure)
Just to say that I checked and I couldn't find ANY show or film on Now that wasn't Stereo HD, even on the Gen 4 ATV. I think it's mostly their sports channels that benefit from that aspect of Boost (1080p / 5.1). I can't test because I don't have a sub for their sports (or movies), I only have it currently for their shows.

I've cancelled the Boost free trial. 2 screens is more than enough in our house for this garbage.

Game of Thrones in 720p stereo? Come on!

Thanks for pointing this out to me.
 

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It looks like Disney’s new Marvel show Loki is also 24.0fps, in addition to their last new Marvel show Falcon and Winter Soldier. To verify, I manually set the refresh rate to 24.0Hz, turned on only frame rate matching, started the first episode, backed out of the stream, and confirmed the menu immediately loaded with no HDMI resync. It’s going to be interesting to see how many new streaming shows are shot at true 24fps over the next several years. I know Netflix has already been doing that a lot, but now that Disney is dipping their toes in it as well, I wonder if this going to turn into a bigger trend for them and anyone else.
 

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It would be great if someone already running the tvOS 15 developer beta could check if everything is still alright regarding this matter: that both, integer and fractional rates are still supported and are also still available in the display settings menu.
 

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It would be great if someone already running the tvOS 15 developer beta could check if everything is still alright regarding this matter: that both, integer and fractional rates are still supported and are also still available in the display settings menu.
Can confirm everything still works as expected in that regards with respect to tvOS 15 Beta 1.


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I don't see any reason why Apple should remove this feature
I didn’t see any reason to leave out in the first place, either ;)
Remember we are talking about the “you are holding it wrong” company.

Btw it seems that I can’t get TV led DV anymore but just player led DV after 14.5 I think. Anybody experience the same?
 

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I don't see any reason why Apple should remove this feature
I also don't think they will remove it again. But that Apple added support for integer rates stayed rather unnoticed. Just compare it to the attention their little "display calibration" feature got. So they "sneaked" the integer rates in, and they know they could remove them again and barely nobody would even notice. So I stay a little sceptical, so I could at least stay on a tvOS version where integer rates are still supoorted.

Btw it seems that I can’t get TV led DV anymore but just player led DV after 14.5 I think. Anybody experience the same?
Wouldn't this kind of "fix" the raised blacks issue on LG OLEDs with the old ATV? Might this be the reason some consider this fixed on the new one? Could it be that they just force LLDV on all TVs now?
 

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No that’s not the reason. It’s just that the rgb mode which is used to package the dolby vision output is more stable. On the old model the output fluctuates across the whole picture but is most noticeable in black content as your tv erroneously displays an above black image. The new Apple TV’s fluctuate much less (the problem isn’t gone completely) so blacks remain black


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Discussion Starter · #1,534 ·
Wouldn't this kind of "fix" the raised blacks issue on LG OLEDs with the old ATV? Might this be the reason some consider this fixed on the new one? Could it be that they just force LLDV on all TVs now?
I didn’t look into the raised black issue but I’d assume that it’s less likely to happen for TV led DV as the processing happens in the TV.
No that’s not the reason. It’s just that the rgb mode which is used to package the dolby vision output is more stable. On the old model the output fluctuates across the whole picture but is most noticeable in black content as your tv erroneously displays an above black image. The new Apple TV’s fluctuate much less (the problem isn’t gone completely) so blacks remain black
Not sure what you mean with stable and fluctuating output.
 

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There’s a ton of info on this in the cheap test pattern generators thread and Vincent Teoh also covers it on an hdtv test. The rgb output is not stable on the Apple TV.

So … a pure black pixel in RGB format should be 0,0,0. With the old Apple TV that pixel’s signal would fluctuate from one frame to the next. It would maybe output 1,0,3 then 0,0,4 then maybe 2,3,0. Your tv would interpret this as an above black pixel and your screen would emit a glow due to those frame by frame fluctuations in the Apple TV’s output.

The new Apple TV still does this to an extent but it happens far less frequently and with less extreme variations. So… frame by frame it might look like this 0,0,0 - 0,0,0 - 0,1,0 - 0,0,0 -1,1,0 and so on. You will still get slight fluctuations but it won’t affect as many pixels at once and when it does it’ll only be a slight shift so your tv essentially displays a pure black image.


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No that’s not the reason. It’s just that the rgb mode which is used to package the dolby vision output is more stable. On the old model the output fluctuates across the whole picture but is most noticeable in black content as your tv erroneously displays an above black image. The new Apple TV’s fluctuate much less (the problem isn’t gone completely) so blacks remain black


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Yes … I was aware of the fluctuations. But @jwort93 reported in another thread that using his HD Fury and manipulating EDID with it, it was possible to make the ATV send player-led DV to his LG TV. The player-led DV gives a darker picture in general, so it wasn’t necessary to adjust the brightness to make the raised blacks disappear. So I don’t want to deny the fluctuations but this might be another reason why the problem only occurred on TVs where ATV sends TV-led DV like on LG OLEDs.

That’s why I suggested in that other thread that Apple, if they can’t fix it in software, they could at least provide a settings option, so people could work around this by forcing the ATV to send player-led DV to their TV.

So now as @Sledgehamma is reporting that he gets player-led DV now, I ask myself if Apple might have decided to “fix” the elevated blacks on the old ATV this way: by just always sending player-led DV now. And I also ask myself if the people that did the measurements to see if the elevated blacks are fixed on the new one, paid attention if the new one is still sending TV-led DV in a RGB Container to LG TVs or if Apple might just have changed to always sending player-led DV on the new one too. Which would have to be called a “cheat” rather than a fix if it’s true. ;)
 

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But the old model is still showing raised blacks as far as I am aware. At least mine did on the latest os. I only replaced it last Tuesday


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Ah ... ok. So it seems the situation is still the same ... at least for most users. I still think it would be nice if Apple would add such an option on the old ATV like Oppo does on their UDP-203/205 Ultra Blu-ray Disc Players. There Oppo offers a "Dolby Vision Processing" option where you can choose between TV-/player-led DV.

If I would be affected by this, I would prefer to be able to work around the elevated blacks by changing to player-led DV than having to adjust brightness everytime the ATV sends DV. Or having to buy the new one. But of course that's against Apple's interest of selling their new model. ;)
 

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Ah ... ok. So it seems the situation is still the same ... at least for most users. I still think it would be nice if Apple would add such an option on the old ATV like Oppo does on their UDP-203/205 Ultra Blu-ray Disc Players. There Oppo offers a "Dolby Vision Processing" option where you can choose between TV-/player-led DV.

If I would be affected by this, I would prefer to be able to work around the elevated blacks by changing to player-led DV than having to adjust brightness everytime the ATV sends DV. Or having to buy the new one. But of course that's against Apple's interest of selling their new model. ;)
It is. But selling the old one on eBay got me the upgrade got the same price as the new remote.


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It is. But selling the old one on eBay got me the upgrade got the same price as the new remote.


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Now that Apple doesn't offer the old remote anymore, I hope that there will be people who love the old one so much, that I will be able to sell it on ebay for the price of the new remote. ;)
 
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