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Font Size and Appearance using 32 Inch LCD

2940 Views 18 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  JonnyAlpha
Hi All;


Well I have finally finished installing the last piece of hardware in my HTPC and have now attempted in vain to get the display sorted out.


I don`t mean the resolution as thats sorted what I mean is getting Icons, Fonts, Windows and Menus loking spot on as they should.


I have an Abit AN-M2HD with an ASUS 8600GT PCi E Gfx Card, I am connected to HDMI2 on a Toshiba 32 Inch C3030D Regza LCD TV using a DVI to HDMI cable.e


Before I installed the 8600GT I was using VGA to VGA PC Input on the TV and the RES was set to 1360 x 768 which filled the screen, however since installing the 8600GT and connecting DVI to HDMI I have change the res to 1920 by 1080 as recommended by the NVIDIA Control Panel which reports the signal format as 1080i but there are many other choices.


The problem is that the fonts look shadowy and in most instances are too small. I have laye with the apearance settings and now have desktop icons looking kind of OK but again the fonts are far from sharpan if I open a system winow such as control panel or system properties agin everything is too saml to read.


Can anyone help by either helping me correct the res / signal format an giving me a run down on the best font / window appearance settings for a display on a big screen.


Many thanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyAlpha /forum/post/12834975


Hi All;


Well I have finally finished installing the last piece of hardware in my HTPC and have now attempted in vain to get the display sorted out.


I don`t mean the resolution as thats sorted what I mean is getting Icons, Fonts, Windows and Menus loking spot on as they should.


I have an Abit AN-M2HD with an ASUS 8600GT PCi E Gfx Card, I am connected to HDMI2 on a Toshiba 32 Inch C3030D Regza LCD TV using a DVI to HDMI cable.e


Before I installed the 8600GT I was using VGA to VGA PC Input on the TV and the RES was set to 1360 x 768 which filled the screen, however since installing the 8600GT and connecting DVI to HDMI I have change the res to 1920 by 1080 as recommended by the NVIDIA Control Panel which reports the signal format as 1080i but there are many other choices.


The problem is that the fonts look shadowy and in most instances are too small. I have laye with the apearance settings and now have desktop icons looking kind of OK but again the fonts are far from sharpan if I open a system winow such as control panel or system properties agin everything is too saml to read.


Can anyone help by either helping me correct the res / signal format an giving me a run down on the best font / window appearance settings for a display on a big screen.


Many thanks

Your 32 Inch LCD HDTV may not actually support 1080i/p. I have a 32 Inch Toshiba HDTV and it doesn't support 1080, highest it goes is 720p. I run it in 720p and everything looks crisp and clear. I can FORCE it to 1080i but the final resolution quality looks horrible.


You may be surprised to find that your TV just won't go to 1080.
According to the manual it says that when connecting a PC via HDMI it will accept 1080i 50/60 Hz 1080p 50/60Hz and 720p 50/60Hz.


Incidentally it does list a set of recommended signal resolutions such as WXGA 1360 x 768 but these I think only relate to the PC VGA connection, so when using HDMI any res will do?


I have just hasd a play and changed the RES to 1600 x 900 and set the display DPI settings to 120dpi and at least I can now read the info on the screen from my arm chair.


Just needs sharpening up a bit.
Use your native resolution and NOT any other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyAlpha /forum/post/12835599


Just needs sharpening up a bit.

It's going to look horrible unless you use a native resolution listed in the manual. If you don't see a somethingX1080 reso in there, then it's not going to support 1080i/p from your HTPC. Doublecheck the resolutions listed in the manual and try those.. see how it looks then.
Do NOT let the NVidia CP influence you... I have your same mobo and routing HDMI through my Onkyo 803 causes CP to tell me that my display IS an Onkyo 803! NOT! But that's what the mobo "sees." Use your panel's native resolution for your best image.

Toshiba 32C3030DB



Toshiba's state-of-the-art REGZA C3030D LCD TV range is design and

technology focused to be at the forefront of the High Definition revolution.

The REGZA C3030D models feature Toshiba's acclaimed Active Vision LCD

picture processing technology. This high performance system reproduces three

times more pixels and four times more colour tones than conventional LCD

TVs for dramatic, lifelike pictures. With standard features including a built-in

Freeview tuner, twin HDMI™ sockets and HD scaling, it is easy to see why

Toshiba's REGZA C3030D LCD TVs lead the way in High Definition

entertainment.



FEATURES:

Integrated Digital Tuner

HD Ready
Resolution 1366x768

Dynamic Contrast

Brightness 500 cd/m²

Active Vision LCD

SRS® WOW™

NICAM

20W RMS

2 x HDMI™

Component Video Input


Case in point: I have my AW-15 downstream of the Onkyo which is 1280x720p Native. It will electrically interpret 1080i, 1080p/24 and others but this causes its internal scaler to run; hence eliminating the 1:1 pixel-mapping that is crucial for sharp images. In a nutshell, I can send it a higher res signal but the net result is as you've described: unsharp, shadowy, and too small to read.


One other point for PJ users: do NOT use any keystone-correction if you want 1:1 as this will cause the signal to route through the unit's internal scaler as well... poor image quality will result.
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Sorry been away for a week, hope your still following this:

I`m a bit lost:s


On the "Connecting a computer" page in the Toshiba Manual it gives a list of resolution that can be displayed:

From VGA 640 x 480 60Hz to SXGA 1280 x 1024 75Hz, with XGA and WXGA resolutions in between.

But on the Toshiba web site it states (shown above in the post by Andrew Hornfeck) that the panels resolution is 1366 x 768.


Does this mean that if connecting via the VGA I set the PC display to any listed and that if connecting viad HDMI I should set the PC display to the panels 1366 x 768 or as near as possible without using Powerstrip?


How does this affect the HDMI 1080 / 720 / 576 signal? where do these fit in?
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Please reread my "Case in point." Electronics manufacturers place various modes into their product's memories known as Pre-Sets. These modes allow a variety of combinations of horizontal and vertical timings to be interpreted by the device as to how to display it. They want to respond to a wide array of (what the consumer knows as) resolutions. However, in the end it is ONLY the native panel resolution that matters. All of these other resolutions (VGA, SVGA, XVGA), input format (HD-15, S-Video, Component, HDMI), and utilities (Powerstrip) are available to provide connectivity and appeal to a wide range of BUYERS.


If you send a computer VGA you force the TV to scale to 1366x768. If you send a S-Video (typically 800x600) you force the TV to scale to 1366x768. If you send YPrPb (Analog Component; 3-RCAs) you force the TV to scale to 1366x768. If you send HDMI from your commerical device (DirecTV, Upscaling DVD, etc) you have to choose 720p, 1080i, or 1080p... in any case you force the TV to scale to 1366x768. The only way to get a clear image is to avoid forcing the TV to scale to 1366x768 -- how? Send it a 1366x768 formatted image (1,049,088 pixels) in a mode the Toshiba KNOWS is 1366x768 based on the timing of the signal, so that the internal scaler is not engaged or its net scaleing is: 1:1. I suggest also that if the set does not HAVE a PRE-set mode for that then you are screwed. The manufacturer did not account for a 1:1 pixel mode, the set will always have to use its internal scaler, and you should choose whichever combination of input connector and resolution that gives what you find (subjective) to be the most pleasing.


I hope this has enlightened you and others as to how much MISinformation is around. Many of the retail stores have employees telling consumers the great things their new units can do, how they can display (1920x1080 progressive) 1080p, (1920x1080 interlaced, or 1920x540 progressive) 1080i, and (1280x720 progressive) 720p. YES, they CAN display it but ONLY at the resolution of the native panel and CLARITY of its internal scaler.


The moral of the story: if you want to see each of the 2,073,600 pixels in a 1920x1080 image... then buy a 1920x1080 native panel. Your Toshiba only has 50.6% as many pixels.
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If youre too far to make out the the fonts with the default size, you're too far away to see the detail in the movies. You should stick to the native res on the display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyAlpha /forum/post/12867330


But on the Toshiba web site it states (shown above in the post by Andrew Hornfeck) that the panels resolution is 1366 x 768.

Then use 1368x768 or 1360x768 resolution and set your display for 1:1 (dot by dot) pixel mapping. All other resolution sources will be scaled appropriately with highest quality this way.
Toshiba LCD TVs are notorious for not supporting 1:1 mapping.

Google and you will find various posts regarding this.

I have a wlt66 and find that on HDMI 1360x768 is the best you will get.
OK Thanks to the info provided I am pretty clear on what is required to obtain the best quality picture I need my HTPC to provide a display that is the same as the Toshibas native Resolution 1366 x 768.


Now that`s the problem when I was using the ASUS AN-M2HD onboard video one of the rsolutions available was 1366 x 768 and yes a very good picture. However I have now installed an ASUS EN8600GT PCIe Graphics Card and this resolution is not available, the nearest I can get is 1280 x 720 which gives a pretty clear picture and large enough to read from my Sofa.


NVIDIA Control Panel recommends a res of 1920 x 1080 and I presume it is decyphering what the TV can display.


I am about to download the latest NVIDIA Drivers and have found another utility called Ntune, I`ll see if this gives another RES.
You'll probably need either 1360x768 or 1368x768.
I have just installed the latest NVIDIA Forceware Drivers 196.21 but 1366 x 768 or 1360 x 768 is not available!!!


The Gfx Card supports 1366 x 768 as a non standard res.


I am connected to my LCD using a DVI to HDMI cable and my current res is 1280 x 720 with NVIDIA control panel signal set to 720p.


Wwhen I was using the ASUS AN-M2HD onboard video 1366 x 768 was available but at that time I was using VGA to VGA input on the LD TV and yes a very good picture but not HD.


NVIDIA Control Panel recommends a res of 1920 x 1080 and input 1080i or p.


Am I right in thinking the only way to output a native resolution is to connect using a DVI to VGA adaptor and connecting back into the Toshiba VGAa PC input.


DOH!!!
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If the VGA input looks better than the HDMI input because it's native, then what's wrong with that? If you can't drive the TV with native res on HDMI, then just go back to VGA.


- Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyAlpha /forum/post/12898521


I have just installed the latest NVIDIA Forceware Drivers 196.21 but 1366 x 768 or 1360 x 768 is not available!!!

Make a custom resolution in the control panel.
I had already tried a custom resolution in the NVIDIA Control Panel (1366 x 768 @60Hz & 1360 x 768 @60Hz) both tests failed.


Digital Smidgital looks like I`ll go back to DVI - VGA at least I`ll get 1:1 Pixel Mapping, what will I be missing out on?


Unless you`ve got a panel with a HD compatible Native RES its all hype.


Looking at the Toshiba manual regarding PC connetion the highest VGA res height is 1280 x 1024 @75Hz SXGA and 1366 x 768 @60Hz WXGA whereas when connecting via HDMI you get the choice of 720p 1080p & 1080i. So the only downer with VGA is its not HD?


I take it as the Toshiba Native RES is 1366 x 768 its not really proper HD as to get 1080p it would have to be scaled even though the Gfx Card can output a HD RES 1920 x 1080 when connected to the LCD DVI - HDMI.


So the Gfx Card can output HD but its of no use unless you`ve got a Full HD panel to display it on..................DOH!!!


Anyone need a DVI - HDMI cable, I`ve got two about to go on E Bay!!!!
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Any resolution above 480 lines (720x480i DVD quality) is generally considered High Definition. OK, there were some displays that called Enhanced-Definition (ED) but Viagra rectified that abbreviation!


Don't get hung up thinking you're losing any definition. You crossed that bridge when you bought your native panel. Only now you're a more educated, saavy consumer, and understand you can't get V8 performance from an inline 4 (cylinder). I'm sure the big box stores are making consumers THINK they're watching Hi-Def by selling them an upconverting DVD player to do 1080i on their EDTV -- now you're among us who know better.


In general the best picture image is achieved using 1:1 where the display does only that. Conversions can take place inside the display, an upconverting DVD player, DirecTV, STB, video amplifier/converter (DVD-IO), or HTPC. Normally your HTPC provides the best conversion because your display drivers, codecs, and the such are current -- hence using the latest technology, methods and hardware to generate the best display signal.


The digital purists will say HDMI is the only pure digital connection. They're right. But that doesn't say analog is bad... it's what we've had for years and works just fine! We won't mind if you tell your friends you have HD
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Its all 1 and 0`s anyway well it least it was until it left the PC, so what are we worried about!!

Case closed - thanks!!
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