It may be worth trying to determine whether the respondants are viewing full resolution 1080i content or "HD-Lite." For me, using content through Comcast (which I believe is full resolution) and a 61" screen, 1080i is noticably better. A smaller screen and/or lower resolution content would likely narrow the gap, though.
For 1080p users only, which source looks better?
Please do not answer this poll unless you have, or have access to, a fixed pixel display with a 1080p resolution. I'm trying to find out whether most owners of such sets think they get a better picture from 720p (scaled to 1080p) or 1080i (deinterlaced somehow to 1080p).
I'm guessing the advent of affordable fixed pixel (non-scanning-crt) displays will change the economics of the 720p/1080i debate a bit. So let's find out.
- Tom
edit: the way I set it up I can't even answer my own poll, since I don't have the display. But I intend to get one eventually.
I'm guessing the advent of affordable fixed pixel (non-scanning-crt) displays will change the economics of the 720p/1080i debate a bit. So let's find out.
- Tom
edit: the way I set it up I can't even answer my own poll, since I don't have the display. But I intend to get one eventually.
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Well, even if HD-Lite it appears folks are liking 1080i a bit better so far.
But with only 3 people responding so far I guess that if anyone got 1080p displays for Xmas they must still be playing with them, and not here responding to polls.
- Tom
But with only 3 people responding so far I guess that if anyone got 1080p displays for Xmas they must still be playing with them, and not here responding to polls.
- Tom
BTW, for anyone responding, maybe you could comment here if the results seem to be at all dependent upon whether you are watching movies or sports. The difference might depend upon how well your equipment can do inverse telecine vs deinterlacing, etc.
- Tom
- Tom
I have 1080p native 37" LCD display and all source of feeds will be scaled to 1080p from the display itself. I've tried watching in 1080i and 720p modes from the H20 DTV box, but they both looked good. I can't really side on what looks better because I can't really tell the difference. I know that 1080i feed on my display will seen as 1920x540 by the display, since all feed source will be scaled by the display again to 1080p even when interlaced materials are feed. When I was making the comparison, I was trying make an effort to catch ghosting which many people seems to see on non-LCD displays, but I've not seen such issue unless the signal feed itself was not proper. In case of bad signals, even in 720p mode will ghost as well, which hints me to believe that it's source dependent.
I currently have my box at 1080i mode, since in theory, it manages more data per second by about 10% compared to 720p source.
All in all, experience from other types of display may vary, but as for the 1080p native LCD panel, 1080i vs. 720p is indistinguishable.
I currently have my box at 1080i mode, since in theory, it manages more data per second by about 10% compared to 720p source.
All in all, experience from other types of display may vary, but as for the 1080p native LCD panel, 1080i vs. 720p is indistinguishable.
The primary content I compare with is new HD content (sitcoms, dramas, etc) and, to a lesser extent, HD transfers of films. I don't watch a lot of sports.
Can anyone else weigh in on sports (or any HD 60 fps video source, typically live things like the Grammy's, I'm not sure about Leno)? Again, only on these 1080p displays.
- Tom
- Tom
Last time I was looking at 1080p, the display was a Barco iCon, 3 panel LCD. It looked really good on all sources (for $50k w/lens it should), including the built in Windows XP server at native 1080p, but I didn't see a notable difference between 720p and 1080i sources. As a matter of fact, at time I thought both looked about as different as when viewing them on my normal 1080i display. Not what I was expecting to see, and probably not what you were expecting to hear....
http://www.barco.com/Presentation/en...p?element=2605
Oh, I was watching a bunch of D-VHS tapes I've made over the years, mostly movies and live sports.
http://www.barco.com/Presentation/en...p?element=2605
Oh, I was watching a bunch of D-VHS tapes I've made over the years, mostly movies and live sports.
Tom,
Come back to visit Ferndale again and watch my 37" 1080p Sceptre and you can decide for yourself. We did get above freezing today.
I've watched various sources through a H-20 via HDMI using 720P and 1080i and also the internal ATSC tuner. I really can't discern much of a difference between 720p and 1080i but then I don't claim to have the best eyes. The biggest difference I see is the difference in quality of the programing.
Come back to visit Ferndale again and watch my 37" 1080p Sceptre and you can decide for yourself. We did get above freezing today.
I've watched various sources through a H-20 via HDMI using 720P and 1080i and also the internal ATSC tuner. I really can't discern much of a difference between 720p and 1080i but then I don't claim to have the best eyes. The biggest difference I see is the difference in quality of the programing.
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Sports and any HD source broadcast look just stunning on both 720p/1080i. As I stated before, suspected ghosting for 1080i Sports broadcast just doesn't exist on my 1080p LCD panel. I watch two football and one basketball games today and just kept flipping back and forth between 1080i and 720p and didn't see any difference at all.
Any HD source via 1080i/720p looks just stunning. One thing that came to my attention is that 1080p LCD display I own has a built-in scaler and it does a great job even scaling good 480p signals via component. I currently have two DVD players hooked up to my display. One is Denon 2900 via component and my new and the upconverting dvd player is oppo via DVI. When I play same DVD's on both players but denon as 480p and oppo as 720p/1080i, both contents look just fantastic. of course, source of DVD makes a difference so I tested this with Incredibles and Nemo. Oppo does seem to be slightly crisper in image details, but it's hard to tell between two sources. They both look fantastic.
Point I'm trying to make here is that since the built-in scaler from the TV is doing a good job scaling all feeds to 1080p, as long as the good quality source of video signal is feed, 1080p panels will show good quality pictures on the screen. Hence, 720p/1080i source may be indistinguishable. Also, 1080i myth on ghosting doesn't seem to exit on the LCD 1080p panel.
| Originally Posted by trbarry Can anyone else weigh in on sports (or any HD 60 fps video source, typically live things like the Grammy's, I'm not sure about Leno)? Again, only on these 1080p displays. - Tom |
Any HD source via 1080i/720p looks just stunning. One thing that came to my attention is that 1080p LCD display I own has a built-in scaler and it does a great job even scaling good 480p signals via component. I currently have two DVD players hooked up to my display. One is Denon 2900 via component and my new and the upconverting dvd player is oppo via DVI. When I play same DVD's on both players but denon as 480p and oppo as 720p/1080i, both contents look just fantastic. of course, source of DVD makes a difference so I tested this with Incredibles and Nemo. Oppo does seem to be slightly crisper in image details, but it's hard to tell between two sources. They both look fantastic.
Point I'm trying to make here is that since the built-in scaler from the TV is doing a good job scaling all feeds to 1080p, as long as the good quality source of video signal is feed, 1080p panels will show good quality pictures on the screen. Hence, 720p/1080i source may be indistinguishable. Also, 1080i myth on ghosting doesn't seem to exit on the LCD 1080p panel.
I was just watching Sting concert on HDnet and there seems to be slight difference in the viewing angle on my LCD panel. 1080i source seems to have slightly wider horizontal angle than the 720p feed. It could be related to my panel, but this is the only noticeable difference I can see so far on my set up.
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Well, HDnet is 1080i so the 1080i maybe be being passed through directly to your display when you set that output mode. When you set to output 720p your STB may be doing something to it.
You might also want to compare some HD viewing at both modes on one of the 720p channels like (usually) ABC, Fox, or ESPN and see if you get the same results.
- Tom
| Originally Posted by bitemymac I was just watching Sting concert on HDnet and there seems to be slight difference in the viewing angle on my LCD panel. 1080i source seems to have slightly wider horizontal angle than the 720p feed. It could be related to my panel, but this is the only noticeable difference I can see so far on my set up. |
You might also want to compare some HD viewing at both modes on one of the 720p channels like (usually) ABC, Fox, or ESPN and see if you get the same results.
- Tom
Maybe not a surprise but it looks like we don't have that many members here with 1080p displays yet.
- Tom
- Tom
I voted I don't see much difference between 720p and 1080i:the biggest difference I see is the Cable card PQ is better than from any set top box
as far as some source material being 720p and some 1080i: I can leave the stb set for native passthrough but again I do not see much difference and it increases the channel changing time
I am hoping this will change in the future when the newer generation of more powerful deinterlacers is widespread along with more true 1080 source material
just my observation on a Sharp LC-45GX6U
as far as some source material being 720p and some 1080i: I can leave the stb set for native passthrough but again I do not see much difference and it increases the channel changing time
I am hoping this will change in the future when the newer generation of more powerful deinterlacers is widespread along with more true 1080 source material
just my observation on a Sharp LC-45GX6U
Tom, still awaiting blacker blacks and HQV Realta deinterlacing/processing (or equivalent) in 1080ps before jumping, so didn't take your poll. But, as I posted in the current 1080i/720-input thread in the RPTV forum yesterday, it's a real puzzler why 1080p owners wouldn't see better images from 1080i sources than 720p. That's been the reported pattern from the beginning of 1080i/720p based on displays capable of far less resolvable detail than true 1080ps. (From C-NET's 1080p shootout, wouldn't think the Mits they tested, with a ~1400-line max resolvable rez was a 'true' 1080p, even though most current HD material doesn't exceed its maximum by much.)
Maybe for better accuracy it requires comparing things like live 720p versus 1080i sports shots, or the best direct-tape 1080/60i programming (late-night shows, HDNet, INHD, etc.) versus 720p. 24p-originated material seems filtered enough, and motion-juddered enough, to often minimize significant 1080i/720p differences--although film via 1080i often appears better than 720p-delivered film here. -- John
Maybe for better accuracy it requires comparing things like live 720p versus 1080i sports shots, or the best direct-tape 1080/60i programming (late-night shows, HDNet, INHD, etc.) versus 720p. 24p-originated material seems filtered enough, and motion-juddered enough, to often minimize significant 1080i/720p differences--although film via 1080i often appears better than 720p-delivered film here. -- John
What's worth noting is that even though 1080i/720p upconverted DVD materials weren't very different from each other, however, the 1080p upconverted material of a same dvd via htpc was noticeably better. As noted above, it's possible that future deinterlacer/processor that is capable of scaling to 1080p can improve the image even more. When that happens, it will definately be worth comparing 1080p vs. 720p/1080i.
All I know is a neighbor who has been in my house many times and seen many HD programs on my old Panasonic 50" LCD RPTV commented that she had never seen such a clear picture. I had a FOX 720p NFL game on via OTA on a Toshiba 56MX195.
I have to agree that it is the best picture in the house. And that is up against a 57" Hitachi CRT-RPTV which I now want to replace with a 62MX195. Or maybe the 72".
And SD programs via D* look pretty good as well.
I have to agree that it is the best picture in the house. And that is up against a 57" Hitachi CRT-RPTV which I now want to replace with a 62MX195. Or maybe the 72".
And SD programs via D* look pretty good as well.
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This poll has not at all shown it but based upon my own expectations of current deinterlacers I had sort of expected good movie material from 1080i (and good reverse pulldown in the TV's) to look better than 720p movies. This is because (except for vertical filtering) a 1080i movie actually contains 1080p resolution that you can retrieve. I guess that much has sort of been supported.
But, also based upon expectations of deinterlacers, I was half way thinking that for sports 720p might come across a bit better than 1080i since economical scaling is probably easier than deinterlacing. I don't think most cameras get much past about 720p resolution anyway and I was skeptical about the varous TV's deinterlacing capabilities. But the poll seems to put the lie to that one. This last is one test I'd like to see for myself.
- Tom
| Originally Posted by John Mason Tom, still awaiting blacker blacks and HQV Realta deinterlacing/processing (or equivalent) in 1080ps before jumping, so didn't take your poll. But, as I posted in the current 1080i/720-input thread in the RPTV forum yesterday, it's a real puzzler why 1080p owners wouldn't see better images from 1080i sources than 720p. That's been the reported pattern from the beginning of 1080i/720p based on displays capable of far less resolvable detail than true 1080ps. |
But, also based upon expectations of deinterlacers, I was half way thinking that for sports 720p might come across a bit better than 1080i since economical scaling is probably easier than deinterlacing. I don't think most cameras get much past about 720p resolution anyway and I was skeptical about the varous TV's deinterlacing capabilities. But the poll seems to put the lie to that one. This last is one test I'd like to see for myself.
- Tom
What a disappointing poll turnout! It appears overwhelmingly that folks feel 1080i source looks better on a 1080p fixed pixel display than 720p source does. But with only 16 1080p-owning members of AVS responding it's still really hard to say much about it.
Bump.
- Tom
edit: I'll post this comment as an edit, since it's a correction to the above paragraph. I sort of misinterpreted the numbers since it's about 50-50 whether there is an advantage to 1080i vs 720p source. What is overwhelming with this low turnout is the very small number of folks that think 720p is better. But, statistically, that is very different from stating everybody thinks 1080i wins. The solution of course is for more folks to vote.
Bump.
- Tom
edit: I'll post this comment as an edit, since it's a correction to the above paragraph. I sort of misinterpreted the numbers since it's about 50-50 whether there is an advantage to 1080i vs 720p source. What is overwhelming with this low turnout is the very small number of folks that think 720p is better. But, statistically, that is very different from stating everybody thinks 1080i wins. The solution of course is for more folks to vote.
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Hi John -
Long time. I think you had 720p DLP the last time I was there. I'll take you up on that, but only after the weather changes. I suspect living in Jax has destroyed my tolerance for Michigan winters.
- Tom
| Originally Posted by water1 Tom, Come back to visit Ferndale again and watch my 37" 1080p Sceptre and you can decide for yourself. We did get above freezing today. I've watched various sources through a H-20 via HDMI using 720P and 1080i and also the internal ATSC tuner. I really can't discern much of a difference between 720p and 1080i but then I don't claim to have the best eyes. The biggest difference I see is the difference in quality of the programing. |
Long time. I think you had 720p DLP the last time I was there. I'll take you up on that, but only after the weather changes.
I suspect living in Jax has destroyed my tolerance for Michigan winters.- Tom
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