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I was suprised to hear that some don't think there is a audible difference between sacd vs cd in two channel mode. From what i've read only multichannel sacd makes a difference. Any truth to that? I just got a sacd player and was curious if it's worth buying sacd's thinking they are way better than cd for strictly two channel. Any recomendations to show off sacd in two channel mode? Also i have dark side of the moon on remastered cd, sounds great, but do you think the sacd version would be noticeably, audibly much better for strictly two channel? thanks.
 

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What you've heard (correctly) is that there is no audible benefit to the technology itself. But many SACDs are better mastered than their CD counterparts, and sound better for that reason.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues /forum/post/17008040


I was suprised to hear that some don't think there is a audible difference between sacd vs cd in two channel mode. From what i've read only multichannel sacd makes a difference. Any truth to that? I just got a sacd player and was curious if it's worth buying sacd's thinking they are way better than cd for strictly two channel. Any recomendations to show off sacd in two channel mode? Also i have dark side of the moon on remastered cd, sounds great, but do you think the sacd version would be noticeably, audibly much better for strictly two channel? thanks.

There is no evidence that two channel SACD sounds better than Redbook. Clearly, well recorded and played back 5.1 can sound a lot better than well recorded and played back Redbook, since two channel can't reproduce the ambiance of the hall.


I'd suggest buying the SACD versions simply because you may well have a 5.1 system in the future.
 

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Properly recorded and reproduced two channel can produce plenty of "ambiance".

And with components capable of that level of playback excellence, a two channel recording on SACD has the capability of providing a more musically satisfying experience than the same redbook recording (depending on the mastering available and the engineers involved in the SACD process). It's all hit or miss, but some websites review SACD's and if you are diligent, you can sort out the good from the run of the mill. Definitely worth the effort for music lovers.
 

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I recommend that you purchase an SACD for yourself and give a listen.


I tried that with Roxy Music - Avalon and in my 2 channel system I did hear a difference. There was increased dynamic range for one.


Again each to their own opinion.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/17008924


Properly recorded and reproduced two channel can produce plenty of "ambiance".

Really? How do the two speakers, which I hope you have positioned in front of you, reproduce the reflected sounds from the side and rear walls of the concert hall?

Quote:
And with components capable of that level of playback excellence, a two channel recording on SACD has the capability of providing a more musically satisfying experience than the same redbook recording

More musically satisfying? What does that mean? How does it work?
 

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Originally Posted by Peter White /forum/post/17010626


Really? How do the two speakers, which I hope you have positioned in front of you, reproduce the reflected sounds from the side and rear walls of the concert hall?




More musically satisfying? What does that mean? How does it work?

Uhh....... you're kidding, right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus /forum/post/17008069


What you've heard (correctly) is that there is no audible benefit to the technology itself. But many SACDs are better mastered than their CD counterparts, and sound better for that reason.

not quite as absolute as it is made to sound here but generally correct.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/17008924


Properly recorded and reproduced two channel can produce plenty of "ambiance".

And with components capable of that level of playback excellence, a two channel recording on SACD has the capability of providing a more musically satisfying experience than the same redbook recording (depending on the mastering available and the engineers involved in the SACD process). It's all hit or miss, but some websites review SACD's and if you are diligent, you can sort out the good from the run of the mill. Definitely worth the effort for music lovers.

I have always thought of surround sound as phony sound effects well suited only to movies



.

Your post is on target.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter White /forum/post/17010626


Really? How do the two speakers, which I hope you have positioned in front of you, reproduce the reflected sounds from the side and rear walls of the concert hall?




More musically satisfying? What does that mean? How does it work?

Wtf? Have you never listened to stereo?
 

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Quote:
I tried that with Roxy Music - Avalon and in my 2 channel system I did hear a difference. There was increased dynamic range for one.

Roxy Music's Avalon is one of the best SACDs I've ever heard.


Nevertheless, there are a lot of CDs that I'd choose over their SACD counterparts. For instance, to my ears Dead Can Dance CDs sound better than the remastered japanese SACD versions.


IMO mastering process is the most important factor in the final sound experience.


This link has an interesting comparison: Vynil VS SACD VS CD:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=885485

A Comparison Of The SACD, CD, and LP Versions Of Six Titles

Quote:
Source Hardware

The analog source was a Teres model 255 turntable outfitted with a Graham Phantom B-44 tonearm, Ortofon MC Windfeld phono cartridge, Sonic Purity Concepts record clamp, and Audioquest LeoPard tonearm cable. The phono preamp was a Pass Labs Xono. The MSRP of the turntable/tonearm/cartridge/tonearm cable/record clamp/phono preamp is $16,325.


The digital source was a Cary Audio CD 306 SACD Professional Version, which has an MSRP of $8000. Although the analog source's retail cost is over twice (2.04X) as much as the digital source, it did not and does not provide twice as much resolution and listening pleasure. They both provide excellent high resolution playback provided the source material is both well recorded and well transferred to disc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues /forum/post/17008040


I was suprised to hear that some don't think there is a audible difference between sacd vs cd in two channel mode. From what i've read only multichannel sacd makes a difference. Any truth to that? I just got a sacd player and was curious if it's worth buying sacd's thinking they are way better than cd for strictly two channel. Any recomendations to show off sacd in two channel mode? Also i have dark side of the moon on remastered cd, sounds great, but do you think the sacd version would be noticeably, audibly much better for strictly two channel? thanks.


In my recent experience 2 channel SACD is always better than 2 channel CD.


OTOH my best CD discs (which are by definition 2 channel) are very close in sound quality to my best 2 channel SACD discs.


At this point I don't think it is worth worrying about.


Just a thought/idea.


With regard to 2 channel music vs 5.1 channel music, my take on the whole thing is still somewhat open, but I'm seriously leaning to that 5.1 music (without video) doesn't mean much if anything.


Cheers
 

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I've read several recent comments which describe the new MFSL redbook CD version of Beck's Sea Change as being every bit as good and actually superior to the SACD version of the same title. Bare in mind, the SACD version of Sea Change is probably in the top five list of mostly highly and frequently praised popular music hi-res titles (i.e., "popular" meaning not including jazz or classical).


I used to assume that when both CD and SACD 2 channel are done equally well, the SACD version should sound better. I also thought I could hear these improvements too, but after absorbing some of the counter arguments on this subject, I've come to accept that what I thought I knew and what seemed intuitively true, probably isn't. If I purchase a SACD these days, it will only be because I want the surround mix, or, I've determined that the mix or mastering employed on a particular SACD version just happens to be better than the mix/mastering on any other format versions.


It's all about the mastering. Format is a far distant secondary.
 

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I think the bottom line here is that the SACD has much higher bandwidth than Redbook. Also, Redbook has _enough_ bandwidth to store VERY nice sound. There has been quite a lot of debate about whether the higher bandwidth of SACD is essentially wasted on detail and frequencies that are inaudible.


As for myself, while I have several SACD albums and many hundred Redbook albums, I have never bought the same album under both formats. So I can't do an apples-to-apples comparison. I _do_ know that the SACDs that I own are all beautifully recorded and mastered - that my SACD's (and DVD-Audio discs) are among my most beautiful recordings. Whether that is a function of their higher resolution or just the quality of the production work, I have no idea.


I imagine you could test it out yourself without too much trouble. Just change to the CD layer, listen to a track, then change it back to SACD layer and listen to the same track. Heck, have a friend switch 'em and not tell you which layer you are listening to. If you notice a difference, and you prefer the SACD layer, then your question is answered. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphon /forum/post/17036725


I think the bottom line here is that the SACD has much higher bandwidth than Redbook. Also, Redbook has _enough_ bandwidth to store VERY nice sound. There has been quite a lot of debate about whether the higher bandwidth of SACD is essentially wasted on detail and frequencies that are inaudible.


As for myself, while I have several SACD albums and many hundred Redbook albums, I have never bought the same album under both formats. So I can't do an apples-to-apples comparison. I _do_ know that the SACDs that I own are all beautifully recorded and mastered - that my SACD's (and DVD-Audio discs) are among my most beautiful recordings. Whether that is a function of their higher resolution or just the quality of the production work, I have no idea.


I imagine you could test it out yourself without too much trouble. Just change to the CD layer, listen to a track, then change it back to SACD layer and listen to the same track. Heck, have a friend switch 'em and not tell you which layer you are listening to. If you notice a difference, and you prefer the SACD layer, then your question is answered. :)

There was a year long research done comparing SACD and the exact same SACD being downgraded to Redbook to make sure the CD track on the disc wasn't a different mastering. This was done double blind, lots of listeners and Journal published in JAES


No audible differences could be attained. SACD can have a lower noise floor but only noticeable when the CD was cranked up beyond normal listening levels
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphon /forum/post/17036725



I imagine you could test it out yourself without too much trouble. Just change to the CD layer, listen to a track, then change it back to SACD layer and listen to the same track. Heck, have a friend switch 'em and not tell you which layer you are listening to. If you notice a difference, and you prefer the SACD layer, then your question is answered. :)

Unfortunately, more often than not, the mastering or the mix or the levels or all three elements are different between the two layers. You'd have to be sure that you have an exact match between the two otherwise such a comparison would be meaningless.


I wish there was a list of SACD dual layer titles which describes whether or not the two layers are the same.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions /forum/post/17039427


Unfortunately, more often than not, the mastering or the mix or the levels or all three elements are different between the two layers. You'd have to be sure that you have an exact match between the two otherwise such a comparison would be meaningless.


I wish there was a list of SACD dual layer titles which describes whether or not the two layers are the same.

The way to get around this would be to downsample to Redbook quality. It is somewhat easier on the DVD-Audio side, or even better, a FLAC download in 96/24. You can use software like Audacity to make a 44.1/16 of the exact same hi-rez download. Then run them back-to-back on a home-made DVD-Audio disc or direct through a standalone DAC.


Again, if you can hear the difference, buy the one you prefer (hi-rez or Redbook). If not, then you join the company of folks in those studies that can't hear it either.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphon /forum/post/17039718


The way to get around this would be to downsample to Redbook quality. It is somewhat easier on the DVD-Audio side, or even better, a FLAC download in 96/24. You can use software like Audacity to make a 44.1/16 of the exact same hi-rez download. Then run them back-to-back on a home-made DVD-Audio disc or direct through a standalone DAC.


Again, if you can hear the difference, buy the one you prefer (hi-rez or Redbook). If not, then you join the company of folks in those studies that can't hear it either.

Yes, but... this is a lot of time in light of the above experiment. Sure, that is one, but many subjects and DBT


On the other hand, the sadists can have at the experiment
Me, I will bow to the Journal results and accept it, until a better Journal result that can be replicated comes up
 
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