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for all the 1080p tv owners

865 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  barth2k
not knocking your choice of tv you have ,but this article makes sense. read on = BUYING TIPS: 1080P Resolution for what?

11/07/05



The CE industry seems determined to add more confusion to already confused minds of consumers. Here comes this 1080P resolution in the fall of 2005. It would not take long for a serious person to ask this question: where is the content? Currently 1080i or 540P signal content is still regarded as “premium†programming by cable and satellite service providers, and still at the early stage of adoption by mass households. TV content providers still battle hard with TV hardware makers over the analog signal transition issue, and the mandatory cut-off date has been pushed back several times. With the current pace, it would take 2-3 years before content providers can bring the 1080i/540P programming to the mainstream. More importantly, even based on the 1080i/540P standard, the industry still has significant improvement to make on many crucial aspects of a digital TV as we have discussed in the previous segments. We always say you can’t run before you can walk. Some manufacturers simply ignore the common sense. But they could be the only party who stands to gain the extra profit in something that simply does not exist. Some people may argue that they are simply buying into a future technology. Well, future is all right. The problem is when that future becomes a reality; this 1080P TV will be probably worth half of what you pay today.

as far as i know the only content for 1080p is hd/blue ray dvd's coming soon and ps3.
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Skimming the early text/tables of the ATSC-approval final report (pdf) makes it clear, yet again, 540p isn't related to formal HDTV standards. The exception, as noted in the intro "resolution" paragraph, is that when motion takes place, interlaced 1920X1080i tends to look like 540p (just where motion occurs). If fixed-pixel-display deinterlacing circuits/algorithms often 'bob' 1080i to 540p, that's a separate topic (see dr1394's sublinks ). -- John
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Originally Posted by thebigdaddye
not knocking your choice of tv you have ,but this article makes sense. read on = BUYING TIPS: 1080P Resolution for what?

11/07/05



The CE industry seems determined to add more confusion to already confused minds of consumers. Here comes this 1080P resolution in the fall of 2005. It would not take long for a serious person to ask this question: where is the content? Currently 1080i or 540P signal content is still regarded as “premium†programming by cable and satellite service providers, and still at the early stage of adoption by mass households. TV content providers still battle hard with TV hardware makers over the analog signal transition issue, and the mandatory cut-off date has been pushed back several times. With the current pace, it would take 2-3 years before content providers can bring the 1080i/540P programming to the mainstream. More importantly, even based on the 1080i/540P standard, the industry still has significant improvement to make on many crucial aspects of a digital TV as we have discussed in the previous segments. We always say you can’t run before you can walk. Some manufacturers simply ignore the common sense. But they could be the only party who stands to gain the extra profit in something that simply does not exist. Some people may argue that they are simply buying into a future technology. Well, future is all right. The problem is when that future becomes a reality; this 1080P TV will be probably worth half of what you pay today.

as far as i know the only content for 1080p is hd/blue ray dvd's coming soon and ps3.
I'm glad more people are begining to see through the B.S.
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Originally Posted by Auditor55
I'm glad more people are begining to see through the B.S.
I didn't buy my TV for todays video being displayed by the mainstream. If I had that in mind I would have stuck w/my "32 Sharp CRT. I bought it to be, as it says on sticker of my HL-S5687W, "Future Ready." I wanted the HD format & the ability that when Blueray comes out this year & when 1080P content comes being asit may that it could be 10 years from now before it's mainstream, I'll already be able to display. I keep my TV's for a long time so I wanted to ready for what comes. There will always be something better in the future but I'll think about that 10 years later when I'm ready for a new TV. As I stated & as the article says, I'm one for the future but my tv needed to be replaced now. I'm not going to wait 2 to 3 years for it be half price because my current tv won't last that long. That's the case w/any technology, wait long enough & it becomes cheaper but why spend $300 less now in some cases for 720P. :cool:
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Originally Posted by davidnjessicacrz
I didn't buy my TV for todays video being displayed by the mainstream. If I had that in mind I would have stuck w/my "32 Sharp CRT. I bought it to be, as it says on sticker of my HL-S5687W, "Future Ready." I wanted the HD format & the ability that when Blueray comes out this year & when 1080P content comes being asit may that it could be 10 years from now before it's mainstream, I'll already be able to display. I keep my TV's for a long time so I wanted to ready for what comes. There will always be something better in the future but I'll think about that 10 years later when I'm ready for a new TV. :cool:
Boycott Blu-Ray and HD-DVD by not purchasing them. :mad:
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Originally Posted by Auditor55
Boycott Blu-Ray and HD-DVD by not purchasing them. :mad:
Why?
Another thread where people ignorantly conflate content resolution with display choices.
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
Another thread where people ignorantly conflate content resolution with display choices.
Agreed. In fact, your argument (that 1080p content availability has little to do with the merit of 1080p displays) is my favorite argument because it totally short-circuits all of the "there's no 1080p content" BS that we get from our resident trolls.


What's frustrating to me, however, is that there are several sources that will indeed generate a pure 1080p image when deinterlaced, and there are even some native 1080p sources, but mentioning these always degenerates into an argument about what month Blu-Ray will become available, the outcome of the pending format war, and a bunch of other nonsense.


I would be more than willing to discuss these points with reasonable people, but 1080p is the current hot-button troll topic. Which might explain why we get 3 new threads per week rehashing the same stuff.


My heart is with the argument that content DOES exist. But your argument is still my favorite because it shuts the trolls up in a hurry. There simply is no sound counter-argument.
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What's frustrating to me, however, is that there are several sources that will indeed generate a pure 1080p image when deinterlaced, and there are even some native 1080p sources, but mentioning these always degenerates into an argument about what month Blu-Ray will become available, the outcome of the pending format war, and a bunch of other nonsense.
Absolutely. The availability of 1080p content is not a totally moot discussion, but people confuse display choices with content at the native resolution of the display, which is unfortunate. And then we get bogged down to a big argument about there not being any 1080p content so there's no need for 1080p displays, which is of course ridiculous. :)
This whole 1080p arguement is useless because it depends on the consumer's use of the display. Also, the price differencial on a 1080p RPTV as opposed to a 720 display is relatively minor compared to plasma, so it's not as if you are paying a premium for 1080p. People who plan to upgrade in a couple of years can buy a 720 set now and be happy. People who plan to keep their set for 8 to 10 years are looking for something more futureproof which is a 1080p set that can accept 1080p sources. Consumers who plan on buying blueray or turning their display into an HTPC are more apt to want and buy 1080p's now. Some people use their display to watch some HD and some 480 DVD's, 1080p is not needed, people like myself, who will be heavily into HTPC use as well as keeping the set for a few years prefer a 1080p set with 1080p inputs. Different strokes for different folks.
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Agreed. In fact, your argument (that 1080p content availability has little to do with the merit of 1080p displays) is my favorite argument because it totally short-circuits all of the "there's no 1080p content" BS that we get from our resident trolls.
As in the last thread, before the Industry Plants, Corporateers and Marketeers intentionally got that thread closed, the Consumerist never proved the "pratically" the merit of a so-called 1080p display.


Most people here believe that in the in order fo a set to truly be considered 1080p it "must" include 1080p inputs. Why would 1080p inputs be a necessity to folks? The answer is one thing and thing only, NATIVE 1080p source content. And how much native 1080p source content do we currently have? Probably less than 0.1 percent.

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What's frustrating to me, however, is that there are several sources that will indeed generate a pure 1080p image when deinterlaced, and there are even some native 1080p sources, but mentioning these always degenerates into an argument about what month Blu-Ray will become available, the outcome of the pending format war, and a bunch of other nonsense.
Why don't you want people to take into account a pending format war, why would that frustrate you. You rather have folks get stuck with a dead format?

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I would be more than willing to discuss these points with reasonable people, but 1080p is the current hot-button troll topic. Which might explain why we get 3 new threads per week rehashing the same stuff.
I share your desire to discuss the pertinent issues with reasonable people and not arrogant know it alls.

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My heart is with the argument that content DOES exist. But your argument is still my favorite because it shuts the trolls up in a hurry. There simply is no sound counter-argument
Talking about revisionist history, that argument was thoroughly refuted.
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Originally Posted by lipcrkr
This whole 1080p arguement is useless because it depends on the consumer's use of the display. Also, the price differencial on a 1080p RPTV as opposed to a 720 display is relatively minor compared to plasma, so it's not as if you are paying a premium for 1080p. People who plan to upgrade in a couple of years can buy a 720 set now and be happy. People who plan to keep their set for 8 to 10 years are looking for something more futureproof which is a 1080p set that can accept 1080p sources. Consumers who plan on buying blueray or turning their display into an HTPC are more apt to want and buy 1080p's now. Some people use their display to watch some HD and some 480 DVD's, 1080p is not needed, people like myself, who will be heavily into HTPC use as well as keeping the set for a few years prefer a 1080p set with 1080p inputs. Different strokes for different folks.
Exactly. Different people have different needs. I couldn't agree more.


My only complaint with the way this entire "merit of 1080p" discussion has gone on this board for the last several months is that we have several hardcore trolls who take a hard line stance that 1080p monitors have ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER.


Reasonable folks on the "pro 1080p" side of the argument are willing to concede that 1080p does not benefit all users and that it's not a silver bullet.


Likewise, reasonable folks on the other side of the argument are willing to concede that 1080p monitors do offer benefits under certain viewing conditions or with certain content.


But this forum is polluted by troll or two (actually, I suspect it's one troll with multiple handles) who do not take a reasonable position. Their intent is not to discuss the issue, but rather to stir people up. The very notion that we have "pro 1080p" and "anti 1080p" factions is totally rediculous to me. The silliness of the situation leads me to believe that our trolls are "geek haters," you know, the kind of guys who liked to tease the A/V nerd in highschool. Now perhaps they're bitter because the A/V nerd can afford an 8 thousand dollar TV? :D


It's just a resolution. The practical, everyday implementations of this resolution have pros and cons. Reasonable people understand this. Trolls do not.
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i post an article about 1080p display/content and say i am not knocking it and i'm called a troll? wtf. i don't know what i'm talking about? i never said a bad thing about 1080p, i put an article up about 1080p and YOU are the ones who become all up in arms. i was just sharing the article thats all i could care less what tv you buy or have or what the display resolution is 1080p/1080i or 720p. the point i was making by putting the article up is 1080p just dosen't have the content as 720p/1080i or am i missing something because all the tv show and magazine article i have read say 1080i is the standard for know and will be for awhile. anyway wasn't trying to start anything was just passing on an article. guess i will only post things that others won't get there panties in a bind lol
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Originally Posted by thebigdaddye
i post an article about 1080p display/content and say i am not knocking it and i'm called a troll? wtf. i don't know what i'm talking about? i never said a bad thing about 1080p, i put an article up about 1080p and YOU are the ones who become all up in arms. i was just sharing the article thats all i could care less what tv you buy or have or what the display resolution is 1080p/1080i or 720p. the point i was making by putting the article up is 1080p just dosen't have the content as 720p/1080i or am i missing something because all the tv show and magazine article i have read say 1080i is the standard for know and will be for awhile. anyway wasn't trying to start anything was just passing on an article. guess i will only post things that others won't get there panties in a bind lol
I apologize for dragging you into this. I assume you are a nice person with honest intentions. None of my remarks were directed at you, and I am sorry for not making that more clear. You are not the troll(s) of whom I speak.


My remarks were directed at the 1080p argument in general and the well-established AVS trolls who frequent threads dealing with said argument. Take a look at the last 15 or 20 1080p-related threads that we've had around here and tell me what you think. We have a few people (a very few, but it's enough) who are simply trying to stir the pot. And then we have a few who are fed up with the pot stirring and who have become reactionary to the point of distraction, and this last definition probably includes me. Again, I apologize.


One (and only one) of our resident trolls has made an appearance within this thread, but I have no idea whether or not he has posted troll-bait this time around since he's on my IGNORE list and I cannot see his posts. Perhaps he's turned over a new leaf. :D
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no problem. just seemed that the remarks were to me ,but yes i see your point. like i said the article was only informal thats all nothing else.
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Originally Posted by thebigdaddye
no problem. just seemed that the remarks were to me ,but yes i see your point. like i said the article was only informal thats all nothing else.
I appreciate you taking the time to post something with the intent of helping your fellow forum members. I truly am sorry that I dragged you into this. Once again, I never intended to imply that you were trolling.


I probably just need to take a powder and to refrain from posting in 1080p-related threads. Most of the forum is fully aware of who our trolls are, and they certainly do not need me to repeatedly point it out.
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Talking about revisionist history, that argument was thoroughly refuted.
No, actually I explained in painstaking detail what goes into viewing ratios and making intelligent display choices.

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As in the last thread, before the Industry Plants, Corporateers and Marketeers intentionally got that thread closed, the Consumerist never proved the "pratically" the merit of a so-called 1080p display.
You can accuse me of being a covert "agent" all day despite what I've stated openly in the past. I am not employed in any capacity that would benefit me if some manufacturer sold more 1080p sets. Frankly i don't care. I only care about image quality, and intellectual integrity, which you apparently do not care about.
I for one wish my set could accept 1080p *now*. It'd sure make it easier to hook it up to my PC.
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