Technical and civil. Well in my opinion HD DVD has nothing left to fight with, with Funai jumping on BR not to mention Onkyo the price argument is leaving fast. Not like being half the price ever seemed to help. I think its all over but the crying. But I would be glad to listen to someones theory on what HD DVD can offer that Blu Ray cant to turn around the sales trend. Aside from a few movies, I know those, but BR definantly has the advantage in the "movies not available on other format" area. Toshiba cant keep giving their format away forever.
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Format Battle General Discussion Thread III: Discuss it here!
This is a continuation of Format Battle General Discussion Thread II: Discuss it here!
Format Battle General Discussion Thread III: Discuss it here!
This thread is intended for general discussions of the format battle
please remember these forum rules
Originally Posted by David Bott
MEMBER ABUSE IS NOT WELCOME
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Format Battle General Discussion Thread III: Discuss it here!
This thread is intended for general discussions of the format battle
please remember these forum rules
Originally Posted by David Bott
MEMBER ABUSE IS NOT WELCOME
>>> NOTICE
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1 - 20 of 4862 Posts
While I agree with you to a point Shug, if cheap HD-DVD players keep hitting the streets and people are buying them, this war is only going to get bloodier and bloodier. The more these heavily subsidized HD-DVD deals continue, the more HD-DVD is adopted by consumers. Once a consumer has bought into a format, most are loyal to it for sometime.
I just wish this damn war would end one way or another so HDM can take off, it's not going to happen with two optical HD formats at war...
I just wish this damn war would end one way or another so HDM can take off, it's not going to happen with two optical HD formats at war...
Hidef digest's review for the new Matrix set indicates that the TrueHD set is supposedly 16/48... Has anyone who's heard it thought that 16 bits was insufficient?
It's kind of hard to make an argument that 16bit is insufficient with 5.1 movie soundtracks when 16bit has proved more than sufficient with much more critical stereo music-only applications (Evidenced by failure of and apathy for DVD-A/SACD over CD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD /forum/post/0
Hidef digest's review for the new Matrix set indicates that the TrueHD set is supposedly 16/48... Has anyone who's heard it thought that 16 bits was insufficient?
It's kind of hard to make an argument that 16bit is insufficient with 5.1 movie soundtracks when 16bit has proved more than sufficient with much more critical stereo music-only applications (Evidenced by failure of and apathy for DVD-A/SACD over CD).
Why I still like HD-DVD as a consumer? No region coding (this is HUGE) and less DRM. I can understand why STUDIOS like blu-ray better but I think that HD-DVD is the better format for the consumer.
As a consumer the format war is awesome. It has driven prices down much quicker than would have happened otherwise. As a consumer I couldn't care less if fighting this war drives all the companies involved into the ground. I want the best technology at the cheapest price possible. I don't really care if the backers of the technology are making money or not. That is their problem.
As for the studios they don't make any money if their content sits in a vault. As a consumer I love HD but SD is fine too. I will buy HD versions of the films I like if available, if not the upscaled SD version is fine.
Laters,
Jeff
As a consumer the format war is awesome. It has driven prices down much quicker than would have happened otherwise. As a consumer I couldn't care less if fighting this war drives all the companies involved into the ground. I want the best technology at the cheapest price possible. I don't really care if the backers of the technology are making money or not. That is their problem.
As for the studios they don't make any money if their content sits in a vault. As a consumer I love HD but SD is fine too. I will buy HD versions of the films I like if available, if not the upscaled SD version is fine.
Laters,
Jeff
I agree for the most part. It's only an issue because certain individuals didn't seem to think that the 16/48 PCM included on many Blu-ray releases wasn't good enough if it wasn't 20/48 or 24/48...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/0
It's kind of hard to make an argument that 16bit is insufficient with 5.1 movie soundtracks when 16bit has proved more than sufficient with much more critical stereo music-only applications (Evidenced by failure of and apathy for DVD-A/SACD over CD).
I agree for the most part. It's only an issue because certain individuals didn't seem to think that the 16/48 PCM included on many Blu-ray releases wasn't good enough if it wasn't 20/48 or 24/48...
Sorry, I disagree. I'm sure a good 16bit track can sound great as some great sounding CD. But CD is format limited at 16bit. On blu-ray 24bit is simply a flip of switch at the encoding so why not? What ever that small gain over 16bit it still a gain in quality. I see no argument to push for 24bit while enjoying the existing 16bit track.
It's the same thinking on the video bitrate. Given the same codec, a higher bitrate must give a better picture no matter how small the gain. As long as the format can easily support the extra bandwidth, we should always aim for the best. Don't let no one tell us what is "good enough"!
![]()
regards,
Li On
It's the same thinking on the video bitrate. Given the same codec, a higher bitrate must give a better picture no matter how small the gain. As long as the format can easily support the extra bandwidth, we should always aim for the best. Don't let no one tell us what is "good enough"!
regards,
Li On
I often hear the argument that HD-DVD is better because of "less DRM" but I can't figure out why this would matter to an average consumer. If you are buying your discs legally, neither format is capable of allowing you to make managed copies, and whether or not the disc has stronger vs. weaker encryption doesn't seem to matter to a consumer. Where is the downside for me as a purchaser if the disc has BD+ protection or not? Its not like DivX (the old one) where a network link is required or anything truly evil like that.
Both types of discs can be played on my PC with an authorized player, so where is the advantage for HD-DVD in this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eq_shadimar /forum/post/0
Why I still like HD-DVD as a consumer? No region coding (this is HUGE) and less DRM. I can understand why STUDIOS like blu-ray better but I think that HD-DVD is the better format for the consumer.
I often hear the argument that HD-DVD is better because of "less DRM" but I can't figure out why this would matter to an average consumer. If you are buying your discs legally, neither format is capable of allowing you to make managed copies, and whether or not the disc has stronger vs. weaker encryption doesn't seem to matter to a consumer. Where is the downside for me as a purchaser if the disc has BD+ protection or not? Its not like DivX (the old one) where a network link is required or anything truly evil like that.
Both types of discs can be played on my PC with an authorized player, so where is the advantage for HD-DVD in this?
Media servers. Sure TODAY it would cost about $7 per movie to store HD DVDs on a PC, but HDD prices will continue to come down even as capacities rise, and it won't be long before a home media server is a reasonable alternative to a single-disc player.
That brings up an interesting issue. With certain people very anxious to get their hands on a BD+ disc in order to defeat its protection, is a PC based BD+ player a good idea? Will BD+ only work with Vista 64 and TPM combination? Are Cyberlink and Intervideo going to play in the BD+ game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innerloop /forum/post/0
Both types of discs can be played on my PC with an authorized player,
That brings up an interesting issue. With certain people very anxious to get their hands on a BD+ disc in order to defeat its protection, is a PC based BD+ player a good idea? Will BD+ only work with Vista 64 and TPM combination? Are Cyberlink and Intervideo going to play in the BD+ game?
Just out of curiosity, what kind of audio setup do you have? Can you even utilize the 20 or 24 bit audio without losing it due to less than optimal equipment?
In theory, I agree with you, but in practice, It won't matter to me anyway because I don't have 10-50K to spend on kickass audio/video components.
It's kind of like saying "They should offer 110 Octane at the pump" for the boost junkies out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On /forum/post/0
Sorry, I disagree. I'm sure a good 16bit track can sound great as some great sounding CD. But CD is format limited at 16bit. On blu-ray 24bit is simply a flip of switch at the encoding so why not? What ever that small gain over 16bit it still a gain in quality. I see no argument to push for 24bit while enjoying the existing 16bit track.
It's the same thinking on the video bitrate. Given the same codec, a higher bitrate must give a better picture no matter how small the gain. As long as the format can easily support the extra bandwidth, we should always aim for the best. Don't let no one tell us what is "good enough"!![]()
regards,
Li On
Just out of curiosity, what kind of audio setup do you have? Can you even utilize the 20 or 24 bit audio without losing it due to less than optimal equipment?
In theory, I agree with you, but in practice, It won't matter to me anyway because I don't have 10-50K to spend on kickass audio/video components.
It's kind of like saying "They should offer 110 Octane at the pump" for the boost junkies out there.
Do any of you think this could make a difference in this war?
According to Home Media Magazine (page 32) http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2007/index.php that the BDA affiliated studios are only releasing 43 titles this year, while HD DVD backers plan on shipping 800. That's a huge difference. The numbers they give in the article just don't make sense. BDA to release 147 titles in 2008, 342 in 2009..... At that rate compaired to HD DVD, that might make a difference on how this is played out IMO.
EDIT : I'm guessing the 43 titles are ones coming out later this year, and does not include the ones already released to date. Same with the 800 (or close to it) from what it looks like. All released from date to end of the year.
According to Home Media Magazine (page 32) http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2007/index.php that the BDA affiliated studios are only releasing 43 titles this year, while HD DVD backers plan on shipping 800. That's a huge difference. The numbers they give in the article just don't make sense. BDA to release 147 titles in 2008, 342 in 2009..... At that rate compaired to HD DVD, that might make a difference on how this is played out IMO.
EDIT : I'm guessing the 43 titles are ones coming out later this year, and does not include the ones already released to date. Same with the 800 (or close to it) from what it looks like. All released from date to end of the year.
According to that article, HD DVD releases in November and December of this year alone are nearly three times what is scheduled for BD for all of 2008. If this data is accurate, all the people arguing that content will decide this war for BD better hope they are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomster /forum/post/0
Do any of you think this could make a difference in this war?
According to Home Media Magazine (page 32)...
According to that article, HD DVD releases in November and December of this year alone are nearly three times what is scheduled for BD for all of 2008. If this data is accurate, all the people arguing that content will decide this war for BD better hope they are wrong.
Theoretically, I think 20bit is probably good enough for your ordinary mortal with good equipment and an acoustically prepared room/dedicated home theater. 16bit is probably sufficient for most non-dedicated home theater setups....
I'd prefer to be skeptical on my equipment or room, if not my Mark I human ear, than uncertainty over the source itself and if the encoder was having a good day or if he was encoding on a wednesday versus a Monday, though. Lossless, if not uncompressed, means we can do this with certainty.
I'd prefer to be skeptical on my equipment or room, if not my Mark I human ear, than uncertainty over the source itself and if the encoder was having a good day or if he was encoding on a wednesday versus a Monday, though. Lossless, if not uncompressed, means we can do this with certainty.
No one seems to care that Blu-ray is by far the better computer/burn your own media format? This is for me the entire reason I so strongly support Blu-ray.. if these formats were only a matter of pre-pressed movies I wouldn't care even 10 percent as much as I do now for who wins. I'd like to live in a compatible world for the next 10 years, and I will certainly be burning a ton of my own HD content on Blu-ray.
As someone who's been late to the hi-res multichannel party (and is kicking himself because of that tardiness) I can only speculate that any "apathy" is merely due to people not hearing DVD-A/SACD. While recordings (and mixes) vary, I am generally BLOWN AWAY with the quality. I can only hope that we get concerts and music videos in both hi-res video and hi-res audio. Sixteen-bit is insufficient once one has heard 24-bit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/0
It's kind of hard to make an argument that 16bit is insufficient with 5.1 movie soundtracks when 16bit has proved more than sufficient with much more critical stereo music-only applications (Evidenced by failure of and apathy for DVD-A/SACD over CD).
As someone who's been late to the hi-res multichannel party (and is kicking himself because of that tardiness) I can only speculate that any "apathy" is merely due to people not hearing DVD-A/SACD. While recordings (and mixes) vary, I am generally BLOWN AWAY with the quality. I can only hope that we get concerts and music videos in both hi-res video and hi-res audio. Sixteen-bit is insufficient once one has heard 24-bit!
I tend to think that magnetic and solid state storage are superior to either optical format for my archival purposes, but certainly agree that a slightly bigger bit bucket is a nice to have for storage/archival purposes (assuming the cost/GB is the same).
That being said, the main arguement here anyway is for movie delivery, which is a pressed ROM format. In that regard, HD DVD has the ease of manufacture in spades over BD ROM. Not surprising that folks give more weight to HD DVD considering that this is an A/V forum, and not a computer technology forum (and HTPC setups are by far the minority, even here).
Quote:
Originally Posted by seth.s /forum/post/0
No one seems to care that Blu-ray is by far the better computer/burn your own media format? This is for me the entire reason I so strongly support Blu-ray.. if these formats were only a matter of pre-pressed movies I wouldn't care even 10 percent as much as I do now for who wins. I'd like to live in a compatible world for the next 10 years, and I will certainly be burning a ton of my own HD content on Blu-ray.
I tend to think that magnetic and solid state storage are superior to either optical format for my archival purposes, but certainly agree that a slightly bigger bit bucket is a nice to have for storage/archival purposes (assuming the cost/GB is the same).
That being said, the main arguement here anyway is for movie delivery, which is a pressed ROM format. In that regard, HD DVD has the ease of manufacture in spades over BD ROM. Not surprising that folks give more weight to HD DVD considering that this is an A/V forum, and not a computer technology forum (and HTPC setups are by far the minority, even here).
Just to tie up one post from the other thread:
From the looks of it Alex didn't quote what he saw so much as he gave a humorous summary of what he thought it was. On the other hand paidgeek said that it was only the title of a presentation made during that conference. Furthermore the intent of that presentation was to encourage more Blu-ray insiders to participate on forums like this one. As such to rephrase what I said the view that a good number of HD DVD supporters had of Phase Hydra was nothing more than a pure conspiracy theory without a hint of proof. Furthermore a few HD DVD supporters has even used it as an excuse to attack new Blu-ray supporters which I personally find disgusting. The forum is heated enough without conspiracy theories being used to attack other posters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare /forum/post/0
Just to point out... this phrase was within an actual BDA writeup of one of their meetings in Fukuoka , Japan. It was ostensibly lifted from their website and reported on by Alex Millians.
From the looks of it Alex didn't quote what he saw so much as he gave a humorous summary of what he thought it was. On the other hand paidgeek said that it was only the title of a presentation made during that conference. Furthermore the intent of that presentation was to encourage more Blu-ray insiders to participate on forums like this one. As such to rephrase what I said the view that a good number of HD DVD supporters had of Phase Hydra was nothing more than a pure conspiracy theory without a hint of proof. Furthermore a few HD DVD supporters has even used it as an excuse to attack new Blu-ray supporters which I personally find disgusting. The forum is heated enough without conspiracy theories being used to attack other posters.
Well it would be a huge difference if it was true. There has already been a thread on this and it might help if you took a quick glance through it since it sums up the reasons why so many people are skeptical of the claims made by the HD DVD Promotions Group.
Just to add to this but the 43 titles for Blu-ray are only the titles that have been officially announced so far. As for the 800 titles for HD DVD well let us just say I am skeptical, which I gave an explanation for in this post .
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomster /forum/post/0
Do any of you think this could make a difference in this war?
According to Home Media Magazine (page 32) http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2007/index.php that the BDA affiliated studios are only releasing 43 titles this year, while HD DVD backers plan on shipping 800. That's a huge difference.
Well it would be a huge difference if it was true. There has already been a thread on this and it might help if you took a quick glance through it since it sums up the reasons why so many people are skeptical of the claims made by the HD DVD Promotions Group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomster /forum/post/0
EDIT : I'm guessing the 43 titles are ones coming out later this year, and does not include the ones already released to date. Same with the 800 (or close to it) from what it looks like. All released from date to end of the year
Just to add to this but the 43 titles for Blu-ray are only the titles that have been officially announced so far. As for the 800 titles for HD DVD well let us just say I am skeptical, which I gave an explanation for in this post .
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