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Not necessarily. The 480p & 480i>480p product they offer complies with and exceeds any & all FCC requirements requirements for DTV.


Until the FCC makes HDTV mandatory, which may not ever happen, Fox is in the clear on this issue. In some respects, they are at the forefront of DTV advancement in the areas of reception/tuner issues and providing DD 5.1 programming.
 

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Ha- Powell "wants to know". Like the head of the FCC has to ask nicely.


Proof positive he won't mandate a thing.
 

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Reception and tuner issues?


Also:
Quote:
Now Powell wants to know whether broadcasters are fully using their spectrum for a mix of digital programming or "are they using it to do the minimum amount of programming possible -- a single stream of standard-definition digital programming -- and permitting much of their digital spectrum to lie fallow?"
I consider Faux widescreen to be standard definition in terms of bandwidth utilization (and PQ as well :)).


ron
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by R11
Reception and tuner issues?


Also:I consider Faux widescreen to be standard definition in terms of bandwidth utilization (and PQ as well :)).


ron
Please allow to step on my soapbox for this one time. I am not picking on R11, but his comments are typical and will work here. (nothing personal, really)


I am sure everyone has heard of the old saying "more dollars than sense."


Quite a few DTV/Home Theather types truly fall in this catagory.


It amazes me how every few months this same issue comes up and the numbers of people WHO THINK they have caught someone or something doing something wrong.


If these same people who OBVIOUSLY read their owners manuals and just about EVERY home theater magazine in existence, and are quite knowledgeable people in their own right, will time and time again stick their necks out on this subject with NO forethought or research or information, just their "gut" instincts and wonder why people like me hand them their heads in their laps.


Yes, it is TRUE that FOX has been VERY involved with not only manpower but DOLLARS in better tuners (among other DTV things) because they KNOW the 8VSB standard is lacking in certain areas, and great strides have been made to improve them because FOX KNOWS that is the future of terrestrial broadcasting.


Plus if these same DTV/HT people KNEW what it actually took to transmit a digital signal of ANY kind, then the following WOULD NEVER BE HEARD:

Also:I consider Faux widescreen to be standard definition in terms of bandwidth utilization (and PQ as well :)).


Little known fact, I can run 4mps of bandwidth for 480i 4:3 or the FULL 19.3mps for the SAME 480i 4:3 stream. It is up to the broadcaster, not the government.


Considering that when DTV started in 1998, only ONE stream of 1080i could be sent on a DTV channel. Things have improved where we can send ONE 1080i and 2 480i streams in only 6 years, and yes FOX has been involved with that as well. FOX has a full digital lab setup that all the new technology that comes out, at least one of everything goes to this lab for testing and evaluation.


It also amazes me that a lot of these same people who say the FCC needs to get tough are the same people who in other instances will say the government needs to stay the hell out of our lives. You can't have it both ways.

("Sure you can! When I spend a small fortune I DEMAND the government protect MY investment, but the government better NOT RAISE TAXES ON THAT SAME FORTUNE!" Oy Vay!)


I am firmly convinced that the technological issues are being worked out at a rapid rate and really all that is left are the political ones. And yes FOX IS meeting the LETTER OF THE LAW when it comes to DTV, even if some people don't like what they are doing. Last time I checked this was still a free country, and if a man wants to run his legal business into the ground, that is his right as along as he meets the letter of the law in doing it. ("Let the marketplace decide!") FOX is not the only one doing this, but other less known "targets" are doing the same thing. FOX was the only O & O group that made the Nov 1 1998 DTV dead line, and was one of only a hand full that made the May 1, 2002 DTV dead line. Not NBC, not CBS, not ABC. So who is REALLY serving the public?


If the broadcast flag isn't dealt with by fall, kiss CBS HD good bye. (that is why Congress is pushing SO hard on this. The "Build it and they will come" attitude that Congress has shown will fall flat if ALL the networks pull the HD plug, and that COULD HAPPEN) Are all of you going to "hate CBS" if that happens like you hate FOX? The attitude of, "well I WON'T watch them and their ratings will go down and THAT will get their attention!" It WON'T. Why? Until Nielson starts counting the viewership of DTV stations, YOU AREN'T COUNTED ANYWAY when you watch that DTV station! As far as the stations are concerned, when you watch their DTV stations, YOU ARE NOT WATCHING THEM! YOUR VIEWING DOESN'T COUNT! You might as well have your TV turned completely off! Counts the same. Now we all hope that Nielson gets their technology in gear to start tracking DTV stations, but until that happens, no one who is watching DTV is going to effect them anything. That is one of the main reasons 99% of all stations do not publicize their DTV stations. It takes away counted viewers from the ratings, and I can tell you, EVERY rating point is vital these days.


Remember, less than 5 million DIGITAL (NOT JUST HDs) displays have been brought into the US since 1998. (Even less IN HOMES.) Compare that to the over 350 million analog sets in use in the US today, and then I ask you, who are the networks and stations going to cater too in the beginning? If ANY of these broadcasters want to stay in business, they HAVE to follow the rules. If you don't like the rules, then do what everyone else does when they want a law changed, CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE in Washington.


I now step off my soapbox. Thank you for your indulgence.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
So who is REALLY serving the public?
CBS, NBC, , WB, and ABC who give us HDTV while Faux sits on its hands with 480P.
 

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Quote:
Please allow to step on my soapbox for this one time. I am not picking on R11, but his comments are typical and will work here. (nothing personal, really)
Wow, looks like I hit your hot button there foxeng!


To begin with, the first part of my post was an actual question (hence, the question mark at the end of the sentence). I was wondering what Ken was referring to in his comment. You have given me a little background on this in your essay so thank you :). Secondly, I fully support Fox's right to do what ever the heck they want. From a business standpoint what they are doing makes some sense. It doesn't, however, mean I have to like it though or wish they would step up to the plate like many other broadcast entities are doing and provide actual HD. I also have no doubt that they will eventually do just that. As it is, they only have one show that I watch now (24) so it's really not a big concern of mine at the moment anyhow.


As far as using a small slice or the whole 19.3mbs for a SD feed, I think you may be surprised at how many here understand the logistics, capabilities and limitations.


Clearly you are unhappy with the FCC and their pushing of the broadcasters into the DTV/HD realm. So, I'm glad I provided you a springboard to vent some of your frustrations. I hope you feel better now! BTW, no personal offense taken :).


ron
 

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If Fox is serving the public - why did they buy an 800 watt Digital transmitter for the city of Birmingham, AL? They are cheap - period.


I hate to see what happens to HDTV on D* after Murdoch gets his hands on it.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bhambrad
If Fox is serving the public - why did they buy an 800 watt Digital transmitter for the city of Birmingham, AL?
They didn't, according to http://100kwatts.tmi.net/ :


WBRC-DT

Channel 50

Network Service: new - to be

ID: Birmingham AL

Owner: Fox Television Stations

Web Site: http://www.wbrc.com/

Facilities: 1223' 1000 kw


Transmitter: 33° 29' 19" N 86° 47' 58" W

Red Mountain
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by R11
Reception and tuner issues?
Yes indeed.


Excerpted from Broadcast Engineering, January 2003

http://rfupdate.broadcastengineering.com/jan15/


New DTV receive chip set announced


Under an agreement between Fox, Philips Semiconductor and an Australian college, data collection and data analysis was conducted last year with the goal of producing the next generation of ATSC receive chips. For this study Fox provided extensive data collection of ATSC channel characterization for laboratory and field analysis. The data was gleaned from four local Fox O&Os. The DTV reception data was gathered from 1,100 locations in four cities, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Atlanta.


The data collected was sent to Philips Semiconductors' laboratory in Briarcliff Manor, N.Y. Philips Research was responsible for contributing algorithmic and architectural modifications to improve the performance of 8-VSB receivers. Philips conducted software tests on the data collected to determine improved channel equalization techniques that might be implemented in a next generation of ATSC demod chips. Australian National University also assisted in determining channel characterization and receiver improvement aspects for the project. Philips and Fox both hope that a next generation of receive chips will fall out of the tests. At this time no date has been announced as to when the new chipset will be available.


Andrew G. Setos, Fox Group President of Engineering, said at the beginning of the project almost three years ago, that Fox's partnership with Philips was the key needed to improve ATSC performance. He observed at the time that color TV took off because RCA owned NBC and made color TV sets. Since that level of vertical integration doesn't exist today, FOX said it created a “virtual one" with Philips.


According to the study, indoor reception rates were 85 percent of the locations tested. But the study also found that use of two receive antennas in an antenna diversity scheme could greatly improve an ATSC’s receiver to successfully demod 8-VSB signals in multipath situations. Fox claims that this next generation of DTV receive chipsets being developed should end the ATSC modulation controversy. Setos said the chip set would be made available to all consumer-electronics manufacturers from Philips Semiconductor when it becomes available.
 

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Ken...


They were supposed to have a 1 million watt signal but took advantage of a 9/11 loophole that let them buy a cheesy transmitter that is 800 watts. Here is a quote from a local engineer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Your website says 1 million watt digital signal - what is it in reality

> 100,000 watts?


In reality, our power is 800 watts. Our Web Site page on DTV was written

back at a time when we thought that is what would happen. FOX took

advantage of a change in FCC policy after September 11 that allows

broadcasters to get on the air with less than full power for a special

temporary period of time.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here is a link to our local thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&pagenumber=38



So in my opinion - Fox is cheap

Brad
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by R11
Clearly you are unhappy with the FCC and their pushing of the broadcasters into the DTV/HD realm. So, I'm glad I provided you a springboard to vent some of your frustrations. I hope you feel better now! BTW, no personal offense taken :).


ron
Actually, I want my HDTV just like you, but I deal with all the issues on a daily basis and I too, just like you, love when pay day roles around, so if not having HD right now means I keep the lights on and the gas in the car and MORE electronic gear then, so be it! :)


I really think we have just become so used to instant gratification that the reality of HDTV is a little hard to swallow.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bhambrad
If Fox is serving the public - why did they buy an 800 watt Digital transmitter for the city of Birmingham, AL? They are cheap - period.


I hate to see what happens to HDTV on D* after Murdoch gets his hands on it.
Cheap is not correct. FOX spent in excess of $80 million to make the original Nov 1 1998 date for those stations required to. For those stations who didn't make it, the FCC did nothing. Why would a business outlay money like that, that they would NOT get a return on and others get a free pass? The rules changed in 2001 and FOX, like other companies, built just what was required since less than 1% of the viewing audience could even watch it. Now I know YOU are in that 1% and YOU think YOUR are being cheated, but no one said life was fair and it certainly isn't in the world of HDTV.


According to CURRENT FCC rules, stations NOT required to be on the air Nov 1 1998, had the choice to BEGIN digital broadcasting at a REDUCED power level that covers the city of license ONLY. If you do not live within the city of license, no, you will not receive the station. Now remember, the "city of license" coverage assumes your antenna is 30 feet off the ground and NOT an indoor antenna. Those are the rules. Rules that been around for MANY years, since the start of FM and TV both. That rule is also what is currently used for FM stations and all analog TV stations to determine coverage areas. Now MANY of the remaining FOX O & O's opted to do just that along with some CBS O & O's and other group owners, like Sinclair, and PAX and Hearst-Argyle, and Gannet and...... the list goes on ad nauseum. According to the FCC around 50% of all stations on the air ARE NOT at full power and many are in 1000 to 10,000 watt range. I see no one here jumping up and down about how cheap those companies are. This DOES NOT give a pass to remain at reduced power levels forever however. At a time that is fast approaching between now and 2006, all stations will have to increase to full power or LOSE full power coverage protection. What that means is that if a station is authorized 1 million watts and goes on at 1000 watts and does not increase to 1 million watts by this soon to be announced date, after that date ANOTHER station could either increase power or move and encroach on the original station and the original station will have NO recourse. Not a good option for staying in business.


Nothing personal, but like I stated in my previous post, had you done your research, you would have known that.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
They didn't, according to http://100kwatts.tmi.net/ :


WBRC-DT

Channel 50

Network Service: new - to be

ID: Birmingham AL

Owner: Fox Television Stations

Web Site: http://www.wbrc.com/

Facilities: 1223' 1000 kw


Transmitter: 33° 29' 19" N 86° 47' 58" W

Red Mountain
Sorry Ken H, he is right. WBRC has an STA. I t hasn't been posted in the public areas of the FCC website yet so it hasn't propagated out.
 

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I confess. I had someone from Fox come to my home last year to gather data about my reception.


In order for DTV to work we either need to have it available on cable for no extra charge or to have OTA reception improved. I support the Fox effort.


Lastly, I would rather watch Fox EDTV than NTSC. Unfortunately I have constraints on my viewing time which limit me to only a few shows, none of which are on Fox. Both CSIs, Alias, The District and JAG are my favorites, and I sometimes miss them


Tom
 

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I was very excited to see how the 480p would look on my tvs. I figured that it would be better in native widescreen and analog 4x3 over digital signals is much better than compressed Directv.


I had an open mind about Fox - actually optimistic but when I found out they installed an 800 watt antenna for a city the size of Birmingham and they are an O&O Fox Station - I am convinced Fox is cheap and are all about the bottom line.
 

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At the very least you can give FOX credit for delivering a lot of SD programming digitally. The other networks aren't even doing that consistently.
 

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I avoid anything that is associated with Murdoch, so I don't really care what Fox broadcasts. I am now switching to Dish from DirecTV, so its OK with me if DirecTV stops HDTV support.
 
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