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Option A or B

  • A

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  • B

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Hello, this is my first post and I would like to get some input on a fun little situation I've been mulling about in my head. In the next few months I'd like to take my 15x25 rectangular living room and turn it into a full theater with surround and a projector. Watching Blu-rays would be the sole purpose of the system. I'm planning on spending about 5k (pre-tax) on audio. I'm thinking about two possible options (just for the audio, I have the video covered):

 

Option A)

 
  • 11 Pioneer Andrew Jones floorstanding speakers (front wide, rear surround, and 2 on risers for front high)
  • 2 BIC Acoustech Platinum subwoofers or similar
  • Oppo 103 HDMI out 1 split into 3 HDMI using a high quality, powered 3D/4K splitter
  • The three HDMI outs would go to a 3 identical Pioneer 1123 7.2 receivers, one for front high, one for front wide and one for surround back (3x 7.1receivers is pretty much the same price as a 9.2 receiver)
  • I would distribute the rest of the speaker connections evenly between the three receivers
  • Activate all 7 channels on all 3 receivers (to fool them into distributing the surround sound properly) and calibrate them manually with a SPM
  • All three receivers would get an identical LPCM stream from HDMI and I'd playback using DTS Neo:X
  • Hopefully, theoretically, I'd be able to control the volume of all 3 with one remote since they'd be identical
  • Would any of this even work?

 

Option B)

 
  • 7 Klipsch RF-52ii speakers (surround back config)
  • 2 BIC Acoustech Platinum subwoofers or similar
  • Oppo 103
  • Marantz 7.2 receiver
  • Play native 7.1 LPCM, Neo:X for 5.1 tracks
  • No other wizardry or trickery

 

Now option B seems like the obvious winner but I'm really not that much of an audiophile when it comes to movies, I like quality music reproduction but for movies I just want to the sound to be as BIG, wide, exciting and immersive as possible, being enveloped in 11 channels sounds awesome to me. However if option B truly sounds magnitudes of levels better then I'd clearly just be a fool not to go with it.

 

I'd also probably not like to compromise with, say, a Marantz 9.2 receiver and 9 Pioneer speakers or something like that. I'd like to go full on audiophile 7.1 or full on budget 11.2

 

Also since it's the living room it's kind of the centerpiece of the house. While appearances aren't very important to me 11 floor speakers would look pretty impressive, then again the Klipsch speakers are infinitely more beautiful.

 

I really don't have strong opinions towards either option, anyone have any thoughts?
 

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The Denon AVR 4520 provides full 11.2 audio if you add a two-channel amp. It'd be compatible with those few (currently 3) movies which are available with 11.1 channels of DTS Neo:X audio encoding. The Pioneer receivers would not have that compatibility.


Two of the channels would be height channels, though, so at least two of the speakers would be mounted high up, not floor-standing.


It would be somewhat more expensive, too. Be sure to call an authorized D&M dealer for a quote. They're only allowed to publicly advertise list pricing, which is substantially higher.
 

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I dunno... I own Klipsch speakers and really think your money would be better spent than having 7 RF-52Iis.


If I were you I'd concentrate on getting the best front 3 speakers you can and then supplement that with 2 to 4 surround speakers. In that scenario if you really want to increase impact, look at getting better subs.


EDIT: I didn't realize this was a poll but I would vote neither.
 

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I also would vote neither... I'm all about surround sound and speakers and all that, but I think quality is better than quantity. For me I believe the law of diminishing returns starts after a 7.2 system. My advice to you is pick up a 7.2 receiver that can do 9.2 with an external amp or a 9.2 receiver that can do 11.2 with an external amp. I would start with 7 speakers and look at slightly better than what your considering now. I love floorstanding speakers and I have some but don't think that they are always the best way to go. I would also go with 2 subs but forget about the Acoustech PL-200s get 2 subs from an Internet Direct Subwoofer company such as: SVS, Rythmik, Hsu, Outlaw Audio, Power Sound Audio.


You may want to look at Hsu Hybrid 15 7.1 speaker package and add a 2nd VTF-15 H subwoofer. You would probably be looking at about $3200 shipped for 7 speakers and 2 subs. hsuresearch.com


You may also want to look at BIC Formula series speakers or Acoustech Platinum series speakers from acousticsounddesign.com.


Emp Tek also makes some really nice speakers in the Impression Series that have great looking finishes on them. emptek.com


Ascend Acoustics always get rave reviews on their speakers and they are apart of Rythmik so you can get discounts on the subs then.


For your room for subs I'd look at 2 of any of the following: SVS PB2000, PSA XV-15, Hsu VTF-15H, Rythmik FV15HP, Hsu VTF3-MK4, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, Rythmik LV12R, SVS PC12NSD. Obviously some of the bigger more expensive subs on this list will be better than the others but I threw them all out so you see plenty of options.
 

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Had to read that a few times to grasp the idea.

Please don't do either of those, especially the first one with 11 of those horrible Pioneer speakers.

 

With that type of budget, you can get a pretty fantastic 5.1/5.2 channel surround system that will sound miles better, or even a 7.2 system with slightly lesser-quality surrounds/heights. Focus the bulk of your budget on the front left/right/center speakers, and leave yourself enough for some decent matching surrounds. 

Some speakers with great imaging quality and more balanced sound will more than make up for not having 11 floor standing speakers around you and will please your ears to a much greater extent.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopss9922  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24420151
  • 3 identical Pioneer 1123 7.2 receivers, one for front high, one for front wide and one for surround back
  • All three receivers would get an identical LPCM stream from HDMI and I'd playback using DTS Neo:X
  • Would any of this even work?
It wouldn't work correctly.


When Neo:X extracts heights, wides and surround-back signals, it cancels that information from the main 5.1 channels so those sounds don't come from two directions simultaneously.


In your proposed configuration: the receiver extracting the height info will be leaving the wide and surround-back info in the main channels; the receiver extracting the wide info will be leaving the height and surround-back info in the main channels; the receiver extracting the surround-back info will be leaving the height and wide info in the main channels.


You would need a receiver that processes all 11 outputs simultaneously. Otherwise, for example, sounds meant to be heard from the wide speakers will also be heard in front of you (L/R speakers) and at your sides (surround speakers); sounds meant to be heard from behind (surround-back speakers) will also be heard at your sides (surround speakers).


When all 11 outputs are processed in one receiver, the additional channels are extracted AND those sounds are removed from the main 5.1 channels. Can't do that with 3 receivers, where each one is unaware of what the other two are extracting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopss9922  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24420151


I like quality music reproduction but for movies I just want to the sound to be as BIG, wide, exciting and immersive as possible, being enveloped in 11 channels sounds awesome to me.
This is a really bad time to spend lots of money on electronics, because there is a perfect storm of change coming: in audio (objects), in video (4k) and connectivity (HDMI 2.0). At this time I would buy a modest 7.1 receiver (e.g., Onkyo 818) and use the rest of the budget on speakers/subs and room treatments.


A 15x25 room is a fantastic blank canvas. Wish I was lucky enough to have such a large space. Find a bookshelf speaker that sounds good to you; get 7 of them. Get either 2 or 4 subs (4 will really help with seat-to-seat consistency). Get (or make) some absorption panels for your front and back walls.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24423741

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopss9922  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24420151
  • 3 identical Pioneer 1123 7.2 receivers, one for front high, one for front wide and one for surround back
  • All three receivers would get an identical LPCM stream from HDMI and I'd playback using DTS Neo:X
  • Would any of this even work?
It wouldn't work correctly.


When Neo:X extracts heights, wides and surround-back signals, it cancels that information from the main 5.1 channels so those sounds don't come from two directions simultaneously.


In your proposed configuration: the receiver extracting the height info will be leaving the wide and surround-back info in the main channels; the receiver extracting the wide info will be leaving the height and surround-back info in the main channels; the receiver extracting the surround-back info will be leaving the height and wide info in the main channels.


You would need a receiver that processes all 11 outputs simultaneously. Otherwise, for example, sounds meant to be heard from the wide speakers will also be heard in front of you (L/R speakers) and at your sides (surround speakers); sounds meant to be heard from behind (surround-back speakers) will also be heard at your sides (surround speakers).


When all 11 outputs are processed in one receiver, the additional channels are extracted AND those sounds are removed from the main 5.1 channels. Can't do that with 3 receivers, where each one is unaware of what the other two are extracting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopss9922  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24420151


I like quality music reproduction but for movies I just want to the sound to be as BIG, wide, exciting and immersive as possible, being enveloped in 11 channels sounds awesome to me.
This is a really bad time to spend lots of money on electronics, because there is a perfect storm of change coming: in audio (objects), in video (4k) and connectivity (HDMI 2.0). At this time I would buy a modest 7.1 receiver (e.g., Onkyo 818) and use the rest of the budget on speakers/subs and room treatments.


A 15x25 room is a fantastic blank canvas. Wish I was lucky enough to have such a large space. Find a bookshelf speaker that sounds good to you; get 7 of them. Get either 2 or 4 subs (4 will really help with seat-to-seat consistency). Get (or make) some absorption panels for your front and back walls.

+1 on "This is a really bad time to spend lots of money on electronics, because there is a perfect storm of change coming"...


Kinda reminds me of 2006-2007, as the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD "wars" were raging full steam, and 1080p PJ's were just getting into the below $10k territory....When the Sony "Pearl" was released VW50 it set benchmark for price/value/performance....then the "Black Pearl" at $5k MSRP further improved that...and finally Blu-ray "won"....and HDMI was just really gaining traction vs the legacy connections.


2013-2014; Now Blu-Ray players are commodities (please no flames on that), 1080p PJ is commonplace at great value/price points, and 4k video seems to be getting into the $15k range, with NeoX/DSX holding 11.x matrix audio in bay till the object audio gets traction.


Just my guess; late 2016/early 2017; 4k PJ near $5k, object audio in high end consumer AVR's at $4k price points (lots of DSP horsepower needed).


>>Put $$$ into you keeper electronics (speakers/subs), and $ into gear for 3 year cycle that you can sell in 2017 (AVR/PJ)....


also ; Pre-wire for discrete object audio; go AT big screen,



[edit]

did some more research, posted in this thread;
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex  /t/1498937/the-beast-unleashed/180#post_24424557


This thread made me do some quick research, looks like 10.x is what Auro is working on for home theatres
http://www.auro-3d.com/system/concept/


Quote:
Top Layer : Situated directly above the listener. Enhances the realism of fly-over effects by creating a bridge with the Height Layer. This combination produces an enveloping sphere or 'cocoon of sound' around the listener.


Height Layer (40° above the Lower Layer): The most important layer in the creation of immersive sound AROUND the listener. The capturing of ambient reflections in this layer allows Auro-3D® to deliver a more natural sound & improve sound source localization.


Lower Layer (0°-20°): 2D horizontal plane where ear-level source sounds are located.
Home Theater (small rooms); Auro 10.1 (+ Top Ceiling / VOG)

Quote:
100% compatibility between all Auro-3D® listening formats All Auro-3D® listening formats have a Height Channel above and around the listener, which is crucial to a fully immersive experience.

This is unattainable with only a Top Layer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Thanks everyone for the replies. I see now that both options are a little silly but I was just wondering if either would be a good place to start. I guess I'll go back to the drawing board!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopss9922  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24430548


I see now that both options are a little silly but I was just wondering if either would be a good place to start.
Nothing silly about your second option; a 7.2 system would be a great place to start.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani  /t/1520233/frankenstein-pioneer-11-2-system-or-7-2-marantz-klipsch#post_24430664


Nothing silly about your second option; a 7.2 system would be a great place to start.

Good point Sanjay.... I just wouldn't do them with the lower-end Klipsch Reference towers. Fwiw, I would check your local used market for the original RF-7s/RC-7 for less than 1/3 of your budget and supplement t them with smaller surround and a good sub or two to start with.
 
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