AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,188 Posts
Frequencies under 80hz become hard to localized by human ears. With that being said, down firing is probably easier to design the cabinet because the box is coupled with gravity. Front firing or side firing will require better support from the feet. Down firing can affect sound due to different flooring material where front or side does not affect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Personally, I prefer a front firing sub. I've build 14 or so down firing, but found that there is no substitute for a non-deflected pressure wave to hit your body. Dynamics are just as important to me as SPL and SQ, so having it first get absorbed by the foor/carpet is a compromise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KidHorn

·
Banned
Joined
·
15,491 Posts
Down firing filters out some above bandwidth harmonics, as they don't go around corners all that well. So does rear firing. There are no advantages to forward firing, other than you can see the driver. The average person, who lacks education in acoustics, will tend to think that makes a difference. Below roughly 200Hz it doesn't, but not knowing that they tend to gravitate to forward firing. There are a couple of inaccurate assumptions in the preceding posts that reflect that view. If I used direct radiator subs I'd go either down or rear firing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Now you know why I have only 164 posts in 12 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,745 Posts
I've had both, albeit on a wood floor on top of a concrete slab, and they both sounded great in a medium sized room.

Both were servo 15 inch subs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,622 Posts
Personally, I prefer a front firing sub. I've build 14 or so down firing, but found that there is no substitute for a non-deflected pressure wave to hit your body. Dynamics are just as important to me as SPL and SQ, so having it first get absorbed by the foor/carpet is a compromise.
Maybe it's all psychological, but I've found front firing to sound better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Maybe it's all psychological, but I've found front firing to sound better.
Yep, I've always said that all audio equipment evaluation should be done by blind people. Totally eliminates all visual bias, and they seem to have much better sensitivity.
Like going to CES an watching people look into a room and reject it because of the type of speakers it has. Seveal years ago there was a blind man going from room to room and I still regret not stopping and asking him which system he thought was closest to the real thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoofar

·
Banned
Joined
·
15,491 Posts
Yep, I've always said that all audio equipment evaluation should be done by blind people. Totally eliminates all visual bias, and they seem to have much better sensitivity.
When Speaker Builder magazine did its annual DIY speaker competition the listening tests were literally blind, with the speakers placed behind an acoustically transparent black scrim. When the results were tabulated and the speakers revealed very often the winners had looks that verged on the bizarre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ronny31

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
A well designed sub of any configuration will be... Well designed... and thus sound great.

A down firing sub has some natural horn loading properties, whereas an up right and outward firing sub gives more accurate placement potential.

In both cases these are *very* marginal.

I'd rather have the a well made and measured either than a crappy other.

Disclosure: I have downward firing now, but I've had outward firing before. I'm sure I'll buy something new one day and I doubt I even consider this question in my purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,057 Posts
Now you know why I have only 164 posts in 12 years.
Don't take it personally. Bill is our resident objectivist know-it-all. ;)

If you have chosen your speakers without having first done a double blind test, you have done it wrong! :p

Go ahead, ask him about cables ... :eek::D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,120 Posts
I like my front-firing sub. I previously had a down-firing one of the same size driver and amp, but on my heavy carpeting (with thick pad underneath) there must have been some loss of something because this one just sounds better to me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
15,491 Posts
I previously had a down-firing one of the same size driver and amp, but on my heavy carpeting (with thick pad underneath) there must have been some loss of something...
There was a loss, of midbass and higher harmonics. Carpet and pad have no effect below 100Hz. You may just prefer the higher THD that front-firing gives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: climber07

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Don't take it personally. Bill is our resident objectivist know-it-all. ;)

If you have chosen your speakers without having first done a double blind test, you have done it wrong! :p

Go ahead, ask him about cables ... :eek::D
Read a lot of threads he was involved in, witnessed his limited knowledge, he's just another human. As the old saying goes: "we are all idiots, only on different subjects" :) just like religion and politics.
 

·
AVS ***** Member
Joined
·
8,972 Posts
Personally, I prefer a front firing sub. I've build 14 or so down firing, but found that there is no substitute for a non-deflected pressure wave to hit your body. Dynamics are just as important to me as SPL and SQ, so having it first get absorbed by the foor/carpet is a compromise.

Hi,

People sometimes talk past each other a bit on these threads, when there is actually something to both viewpoints. I'm interested in your original proposition with respect to the direct pressure wave. I have always understood that in order to feel a direct pressure wave, the sub driver had to be more-or-less pointed at the listening position, and in fairly close proximity--perhaps a meter or two. Is that consistent with your experience, as well?

Regards,
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Hi,

People sometimes talk past each other a bit on these threads, when there is actually something to both viewpoints. I'm interested in your original proposition with respect to the direct pressure wave. I have always understood that in order to feel a direct pressure wave, the sub driver had to be more-or-less pointed at the listening position, and in fairly close proximity--perhaps a meter or two. Is that consistent with your experience, as well?

Regards,
Mike
Mike:
Yes, that's just something I have played with through the years. Out of the first dozen or so subs I built , most of them were down firing cylindrical enclosures. Most all listening rooms are carpeted. So I started turning them over to fire directly at me. Having the driver firing into an absobant layer of carpet and padding versus a direct wave makes a difference. I have already been chastised and been told that I am wrong on this, but I 'll say it again, this is what I have discussed at other subwoofer builders houses and experimented with. I am just like Bill, I have made a living in the subwoofer business(I guess he has), but here at AVS, unless you provide scientific data, you had better just go ahead and put your flame suit on when you hit the "submit reply" button. Looking at 99% of the DIY sub builds on here , suggests there is a consensus on this, especially the near field sub builds..end tables with drivers firing into the side of the couch. Down-firing offers cone protection and no grille to fabricate or get damaged by kids, sweepers, or pets, but you don't see people putting legs on a cabinet and making it down firing. Physics would also suggest the farther away the the driver is, the less forceful the pressure wave is.. 5 foot away or 50 yards away, pretty easy answer. If you have not experienced this yet, place your speakers on stands for a near-field experience, having them at your fingertips with your arms extended while sitting in a chair. At the CES Show, there was a room with a chair that had swiveling arms that had small monitor speakers you could swing out, placing the speakers about 3ft from your ears. It turned me on to near field listening and the perceived amount of bass from small drivers.
Got my flame suit on, fire away. :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16,231 Posts
I don't think Bill's comment related to nearfield use particularly fwiw. I have an 18" sub facing right in back of my seat and like the tactile advantage. Whether the THD differs I haven't measured. Anyone?
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top