[cwoody222]

Today I had to migrate *another* show over to my TiVo to ensure reliable programming http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


Here's what I mean:


I record "X-Men: Evolution" which airs Sunday morning on my WB affiliate. Every week since it's premiere a few weeks ago I've been watching Replay to make sure it'll record...since they seems to juggle it around the schedule a bit (Sat or Sun, 10:30 or 11am). I was hoping they wouldn't move it two time slots so Replay would always find it.


Well...next week they moved from 10:30 to 11am - which was fine by Replay - I still had my two red dots. But...they had an *additional* episode playing at 11:30am which Replay did *not* catch!


Moved it over to TiVo I did...both episodes perfectly appear in "ToDo".


I also had to move "Friends" over to TiVo a week before the Season Premiere because my 30min. guaranteed show would've not recorded the hour-long season finale from last year. Then, the following week ReplayTV would not have recorded the "bonus" episode at 8:30pm right after the season premiere.


Ditto w/ Will & Grace...Replay would have missed the "bonus" Will & Grace that aired Week 2 of the new season at 8:30pm - right before a regularly scheduled episode.


This week Replay would not have been sure to get the special one-hour Will & Grace since the channel is only set up to guarantee 30 minutes.


Also, Malcolm in the Middle is a problem this year. With FOX showing two first-run episodes a week I either have to set Replay for one hour, two episodes or BE SURE to watch Sunday's episode before Replay records over it on Wednesday. Or - I could just use TiVo, which I did in this case.


Right now I only have TWO shows on my Replay that are there for a reason. Simpsons - so I can "pad" to start one minute early and exclude Saturday's (local affiliate shows syndicated eps at 7:30pm) and South Park - so I can exclude other days of the week.


It seems this season has a lot of "oddities" that Replay can't deal with. And devices like ReplayTV will, no doubt, make networks even MORE likely to break out of their typical scheduling habits as years go on...I hope Replay's ready for the world it creates...

 

[karog]

Quote:

Originally posted by cwoody222: Also, Malcolm in the Middle is a problem this year. With FOX showing two first-run episodes a week I either have to set Replay for one hour, two episodes or BE SURE to watch Sunday's episode before Replay records over it on Wednesday. Or - I could just use TiVo, which I did in this case.

You could set up 2 separate records, one for Sunday and one for Wednesday.




[This message has been edited by karog (edited 11-19-2000).]

 

[DrJoe]

You can also set it up as a guaranteed theme based channel...


First, set up the guaranteed show/time slot based channel... Safer to do this AND the next step because theme based channels are "as" guaranteed...


Then set up a theme channel with the same show name...


All the regularly scheduled shows will go into the first channel;

all of the off-regular slot (or second time in a day) shows will get caught in the second.


ciao


Joe

 

[cwoody222]

Quote:

Originally posted by karog: You could set up 2 separate records, one for Sunday and one for Wednesday. [This message has been edited by karog (edited 11-19-2000).]

I will stupidly admit I had not thought of that obvious answer!


Here I am recording all my Sunday viewing on Replay EXCEPT this one half hour...which always annoyed me.


I'll do this immediately. Boy...do I feel dumb. Thanks! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

[cwoody222]

Quote:

Originally posted by DrJoe: You can also set it up as a guaranteed theme based channel... First, set up the guaranteed show/time slot based channel... Safer to do this AND the next step because theme based channels are "as" guaranteed... Then set up a theme channel with the same show name... All the regularly scheduled shows will go into the first channel; all of the off-regular slot (or second time in a day) shows will get caught in the second. ciao Joe

Sorry, nope, I won't use Themes for ANYTHING I NEED to have recorded. With no conflict reporting and not being the highest priority it's too risky.


And you can't use this to fix the Malcom problem - as the Show-based would still "empty" itself in order to record the Wed. episode - Replay wouldn't just use the Theme one you created.

 

[cwoody222]

Quote:

Originally posted by ReplayMike: Hey CWoody, Remember that "difficult recordings" thread I started a few months ago? The stuff you describe here is the kind of thing I had in mind when I started that thread. In fact, I think everything you've mentioned here was covered in the responses I got. So, the good news, in short, is that we're working on it! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif In the meantime, I have an observation. If the networks do stuff like this -- moving shows around in the schedule and doing special double episodes or special longer episodes, then viewers without PVR's are likely to miss them as well (and be annoyed). Therefore, they tend to heavily advertise these specials. So, in general you should have enough warning to adjust your recording setup appropriately. I definitely agree that a "fire and forget it" system would be preferable, but it's not as though they don't give fair warning. The only trick is that you have to catch one of the commercials.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Of course I remember that thread! And of course I know you're working on it.


Am I semi-worried it wasn't hit upon in 3.0? A bit. Am I a bit scared future releases are going to be ancilliary stuff like MyReplayTV, Palm-stuff, advertiser stuff? A bit.


So...I just like to remind ya http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


But...I have no say; no, the commercials are not gonna do it.


Especially for my little X-Men cartoon. I watch no other cartoons - it's highly unlikely I would see a notice about this show.


And W&G's hour-long on Thursday? I can't tell you how many times I've flipped thru my TiVo ToDo List and seen that episode there...and I didn't even notice until today that it was an hour.


PTV has made me ignore commercials, ignore printed TV schedules, ignore channel guides, etc. Frankly I just type in the name of the show i want and record it. Period.


I see your point...and it's a good one. But, I wouldn't have caught all the commercials necessary to tell me 'bout these things. And the point is: I shouldn't have to. I'm not being argumentative - I know you know that was my point.


Oh, plus, I tend to watch my stuff a bit later - ie: I JUST watched last week's X-Files...so if they told me DURING X-Files that there was a special one mid-week I would not have known.


Oh - and one more example? L&O's special Monday episodes - especially bad since they would record over themselves in 48 short hours when Wednesday's episode comes on.


I know you're working on it...I'm waiting for it... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

[toots]

Quote:

Originally posted by cwoody222: Sorry, nope, I won't use Themes for ANYTHING I NEED to have recorded. With no conflict reporting and not being the highest priority it's too risky.

I think you may be overblowing the risk.


I don't use any show based channels (or to be more accurate, very few). For those things that I want recorded, absolutely, positively, I use a guaranteed theme based channel based on the show name (and not a search on the show).


The Replay has absolutely never failed to record one of these. The only thing that'll cause it not to be recorded is a guaranteed show based event, in which case, you've got problems anyway.


I find the theme based channels to be much more useful for the very reasons you specify, namely that it will follow the show all over the schedule (and to different networks), and as I said, in my experience it has never failed to record.

 

[mark_shiffer]

I haven't had most of the problems your having. Actually replay picked up and recorded the special hour long editions of 1/2 hour long shows that I had set to record. (You bought a Tivo and a Replay! One isn't enough? Do you ever see sunshine?)


------------------

Mark

 

[DrJoe]

Quote:

Originally posted by toots: I think you may be overblowing the risk. I don't use any show based channels (or to be more accurate, very few). For those things that I want recorded, absolutely, positively, I use a guaranteed theme based channel based on the show name (and not a search on the show). The Replay has absolutely never failed to record one of these. The only thing that'll cause it not to be recorded is a guaranteed show based event, in which case, you've got problems anyway. I find the theme based channels to be much more useful for the very reasons you specify, namely that it will follow the show all over the schedule (and to different networks), and as I said, in my experience it has never failed to record.

Ditto Here....


And I didn't realize that having a 2 episode guaranteed channel for Malcolm was such a bad idea -- I assumed you did that... Didn't know you could do it any other way... Isn't setting up two seperate guaranteed records the same as setting up on guaranteed 2 episode record?


I do have Iron Chef set up as two show based channels -- so that I won;t catch the 12:00 AM Fri/Sat rebroadcasts if I have already viewed/deleted the evening's show... I have one set up for 2 episodes, Friday and Sat at 9:00; one set up for one episode, Sunday at 6:00...


Would be nice if I could set up ONE show based channel for all three shows -- but I don't think I can even with 3.0...


ciao


Joe

 

[Michael Gwynn]



Without studying the manual again... would anyone know if you "unguaranteed" a show-based record that was normally 30 minutes long, would that allow you to record that hour-long episode, too?

 

[toots]

I also use theme based records to address the variable length episode issue.


If anyone's tried recording Frontline or Nova lately, you'll know that their running times have been all over the map. I set up non-guaranteed (or guaranteed) records for shows and give the maximum time I'm willing to buffer for them. The show is then recorded, regardless of length.

 

[jbarr]

While I understand "Woody's" frustration, and he does bring up some very good examples of problems, I also agree with "Toots" that he may be overblowing the risks of Themes.


I use Themes and really have no problems with them. For me, Themes are great for getting all the episodes of those shows that I want to watch but really don't want to have to track. Allocating a bit of (admittedly precious) extra space to each Theme channel (say an extra 1/2 hour or hour) typically guarantees that ReplayTV will record what I want recorded. For those special cases and those can't-miss oddities, I use Single Show recordings.


That said, as I see it, the fundamental problem with Themes is that it is a process that must be used entirely "on faith". There is absolutly no way for a viewer to know specifically what will be recorded. I firmly believe that some sort of indicator (a yellow dot, whatever) should appear on the Channel Guide on every show that is a Theme "hit". Further, if the hit conflicts, it should also be indicated (say, a slash through the yellow dot or something). Given that Guide data is completely static between dial-ins, I see no reason why generating these indicators could not be done both during the dial-in process as well as when any new recordings or recording changes are initiated.


(Speculating from a different point of view, if these "on-the-fly" algorithms (30 seconds before recording) were designed in a forward-thinking way to accomodate eventual real-time, dynamic Guide data, that's fine, but it still doesn't negate the need for better information for the viewer.)


Further, once you have all these shows flagged, it would be a simple matter to create a new screen that would show a consolidated "Scheduled Recordings" list (AKA a ToDo list) sortable alphabetically and by recording time.


When it comes to ReplayTV features and requests for features, I have always, and continue to push for giving the viewer the informaiton he needs.




------------------

-Jim


ReplayTV: The only way to watch Iron Chef!

 

[toots]

I agree: this is all the best ad possible for a todo list.


FWIW: When I got my 3030, I set it up with only non-guaranteed zones - no show based channels. For two days, the 3030 didn't record anything at all, despite the fact that there were shows that should have been recorded. It started recording everything on schedule shortly after I set up one "sacrificial" show based recording.


I don't know what kind of bug this is. Is it a bug when there's no show based recording, or is it a "first time" bug, where once you get things rolling with the first show based recording, and everything works after that?

 

[just_mike]

here's my work-around to handle both double-episodes and shifted schedules due to sporting events. unfortunately it wastes space, but that's the trade-off of course for actually, really guaranteeing a recording, given that program listing information is not and never will be 100% accurate. of course this work-around really only works for shows that don't get their time-slot moved.


there are 3 shows that i definitely do not want to miss every sunday: futurama, simpsons, x-files. since these shows are on after football (which i do not watch/record), they may be delayed, not even shown or (haven't seen this yet) shown early.


my solution is to set up show-based, guaranteed recordings as follows:[*]futurama - pad -2, +28: Su 6:58-7:58[*]simpsons - pad -2, +28: Su 7:58-8:58[*]x-files - pad -2, +90: Su 8:58-11:00

plus the following show-based, non-guaranteed recording:[*]to be announced - pad -1, +28: Su 6:59-7:58

(i clicked on the "to be announced" show when it was in the listing last week)


pros:[*]this is better than one long, 4 hour "manual record" - everything's labeled[*]it virtually guarantees that each requested show, if aired, will be found somewhere within what was recorded[*]if shows start really late, i still get all the content, just spread across two recordings (missing ~15 seconds while it changes channel)[*]if the program listing doesn't list futurama because they "think" they won't show it, i record the "to be announced" slot anyway, just in case. (it would probably be better if i had a manual, non-guaranteed 6:59-7:58)[*]it catches double episodes


cons:[*]no other shows can be recorded from 7-11 on sundays[*]at least 2 hours of guaranteed space is always "wasted", but that's not really RTV's fault ((1/2 + 1/2 + 1) times # of episodes to keep)



------------------
...mike

 

[toots]

I guess I never have that problem because I know when I'm scheduling two programs opposite each other. Yeah, it'd be nice if Replay told me about the conflict, but I can assure you that my TiVo has never been able to record both programs at the same time, either.


And, of course, non-guaranteed show based records do not trump guaranteed theme based records, but you knew that.


I guess I don't get all that hung up on programming.


1) Set up a theme channel for the program

2) If I *REALLY* want to see it, I guarantee it. Nothing that I don't REALLY want to see is guaranteed, so nothing trumps anything else

3) If I REALLY want to see two shows that are on at the same time, I move one over to another machine.

4) If the show time of one guaranteed theme moves to conflict with the current show time of another guaranteed theme, I can fix it for next week. After all, this is just TV, and it ain't like my life's gonna end if I miss an ep of West Wing or something.


I mean, this really isn't rocket science, despite efforts to the contrary. And, so far, I haven't had item 4 happen to me.


I will reiterate: First-time bug on 3030 notwithstanding (which didn't have any guaranteed shows on it anyway), I have NEVER, EVER failed to get a show recorded from a guaranteed theme channel.

 

[PRMan]

Quote:

Originally posted by toots: And, of course, non-guaranteed show based records do not trump guaranteed theme based records, but you knew that.

Um, I beg to differ, as I have seen this numerous times. Although it was always when the NG show-based record started earlier than the G theme.


I don't bother with G themes anymore. Why waste precious G space for stuff that might get trumped anyway?


------------------

PRMan

 

[toots]

No, I beg to differ.


Right now, I have a NG theme that could have gone off at 10:00. It didn't. Why not?


Because a G theme is due to go off at 10:30, and the NG theme would have conflicted.


Obviously, the Replay box has enough smarts not to trump a G theme with an NG theme.


Would it have been trumped by an NG show based channel? Maybe.


But, why bother with NG show based channels? If all channels are themes rather than show based, then the software works everything out right. The guaranteed shows are... guaranteed to record, since there's nothing to trump them, and they will be recorded regardless of what time, date or channel they move to.

 

[cwoody222]

Quote:

Originally posted by toots: I think you may be overblowing the risk. I don't use any show based channels (or to be more accurate, very few). For those things that I want recorded, absolutely, positively, I use a guaranteed theme based channel based on the show name (and not a search on the show). The Replay has absolutely never failed to record one of these. The only thing that'll cause it not to be recorded is a guaranteed show based event, in which case, you've got problems anyway. I find the theme based channels to be much more useful for the very reasons you specify, namely that it will follow the show all over the schedule (and to different networks), and as I said, in my experience it has never failed to record.

Hypothical:


So I'm playing around with juggling some shows back and forth from my TiVo to my Replay...


Say I create a "Malcolm in the Middle" Theme channel on Replay. I have NO IDEA when this show is on - just that I like it and that it's on twice a week so I use a Theme to catch both.


I then set up a "Titans" Show-Based channel because I also watch that show and I don't need a "Theme" since I know it doesn't move around the schedule or anything.


Titans would outrank the showing of Malcolm EVERY WEEK and Replay would NEVER tell me - not even after the fact.


No sir - that's why I don't use Themes for ANY of my "have to have" shows. Period.

 

[stzaske]

Now I feel stupid.


I don't even know what a theme is. When the Simpsons comes on on Sunday, I hit RECORD from within the Channel Guide, and two red circles appears.


Is this a Theme or a Channel? I've personally NEVER used ReplayTV's ZONES, and really wish they'd be removed. Maybe that's another topic, but this has been something that bugs me about ReplayTV's UI...I've never quite known the difference between zones, themes, and channels.

 

[cwoody222]

Some more clarification on Themes and Shows. First off, Zones act the EXACT same as Themes. ALL THE TIME.


There are two kinds of Themes - ones where you type in search criteria and ones that it looks for specific titles.


Ie: you can create a Theme for "Friends" by TYPING IN the word "Friends" you'll also record Barney & Friends. If you use "Find All Episodes" to create a "Friends" theme you will ONLY get shows who's EXACT title is "Friends". If a special episode was called "Friends Thanksgiving Special" you would NOT record it.


Themes record matching shows on ANY channel and at ANY time.


Show-based recordings are the ones with the little dot. They only match EXACT titles, too.


Ie: If you have a show-based channel for "Babylon 5" you will NOT record "Babylon 5: A New Beginning".


Show-based channels only record on ONE channel. Furthermore, they only "look" one "timeslot" from the time you set up the show on.


Ie: if you created an 8pm Simpsons channel Replay would record episodes at 7:30 and 8:30 too. (but only if Replay didn't "find" an 8pm episode) But...if there was a two-hour movie on from 8-10pm one week and then Simpsons was on at 10pm Replay WOULD record it since the two-hour block for the movie is just one "timeslot".


Priority goes:

G Show

G Theme

NG Show

NG Theme


And a note about a ToDo List - while that would of course be a nie addition to ReplayTV it would NOT solve this problem. So I scroll through the guide and don't see W&G on Thursday - do I instictivel know it's because it's an hour long? No - I probably just assume it's not on. Also, a ToDo List would not alert me to when I would be missing "bonus" episodes since I wouldn't have known about them in the first place in order to know they were missing from the List.