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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been researching which sub to buy for the last two years and have a few in mind. I've been looking into the HSU vtf-15h and the pb-13 ultra. I like the looks of both and the numbers seem to be promising, theire just so darn big. I then cameaccross this funkywaves site just the other day, and though its not much smaller, the FW 18.0 looks to be a killer sub. has anyone heard this thing in a real world environment? The only way i would consider it is if it would best both other subs I had in mind as it is quite the pretty penny, almost $3,000 CAN
if I can't be reasured that this thing will blow the toupee of my neighbour's head, than I think I will pull the trigger on the HSU. Anythoughts on how these funky subs perform? specifically the 18.0.Thanks in advance.
 

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I believe the 18.0 is using a new plate amp with about 2,500watts and has the TC Sound LMS Ultra 18" driver in a sealed box. I would choose this sub over the other two, but it's going to cost more. The advantages are small box, great mid-bass and deep extension. Perhaps around tuning, (15hz-30hz) the Hsu and SVS subs will have the edge since they are ported, above and below that, the 18.0 should have the edge. You have to remember that the LMS driver is 80-lbs and sold for at least $1,000 if you can find one and is perhaps the best driver out there.
 

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I could be wrong, but I don't think the 18 will "blow" away the PB13 by any means in a small box. Looking at this ...

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...cial-test.html


vs

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...5-hz-tune.html


In 15hz tune the PB13 has an advantage over the 75L (100L box, which I think is approx. the same as the 18.0?) from 15hz to about 35hz or so, then they are both approx. equal though the LMS has a slightly more flat curve. This is with a 3600 watt pro amp powering the LMS.


I don't know the size of your room, but the larger box you can fit, the better it is. You're paying $3k for an incredible driver that you can throw TONS of power at and in a small box do what most can only do in much larger ported boxes. Then there is the SQ debate between ported and sealed, and of course the SQ debate between that LMS driver and other drivers. I believe the PB13 driver was designed by the same individual who designed the original LMS driver FWIW. The new LMS driver I would think performs slightly better than the old one, so maybe it's a wash "SPL wise" from 15hz on up in that size box.


I can't comment on the VTF, but it looks to be a winner as well as far as very large ported boxes go...
 

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Having said that, it does look like they ran a 115db sweep which the 100L box handled from about 28hz on up, they didn't run the same sweep on the PB13, so this could be because it couldn't handle it without significant distortion?
 

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Strictly from a numbers perspective the new JTR Captivator will best all of the above at probably every frequency from 15hz on up and it's only 3" larger than a boxed PB13 in one dimension. You do have to add your own amp (power is cheap these days) but it will definitely blow your neighbor's toupee.
 

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Every time I see those charts on the PB-13 Ultra, I'm reminded what an incredibly strong product, and what a sound engineering effort that piece is.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/19533754


Every time I see those charts on the PB-13 Ultra, I'm reminded what an incredibly strong product, and what a sound engineering effort that piece is.

It is with good reason that three and a half years after it came to market, the 13Ultra is still the ported sub that is considered the reference sub that others are compared with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
well, thank you for all your feedback and useful information . the 18.0 definitely holds its own as it has one of the best drivers on the market, but i just can't imagine my self spending that much on a one sub when chances are, for the same price I could get 2 15H's and come out ahead, it just seems more logical. Besides how fun would it be to have 2 15H's in a 8' x 14' room.
Lets face it, I'm currently running a paradigm PW-2100 and I'm guessing any one of these would be a significant upgrade, but one would cost me around half the price of the other two, and give almost the same results.
 

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Being a sealed design the 18.0 is a completely different animal. The advantages and disadvantages are quite different compared to a ported subwoofer. Cost being one factor, to get similar overall output costs more, but then you gain output below where a ported would be tuned, and sometimes above depending on the design, and usually in a smaller package.


Sound quality etc are quite subjective, and also have a lot to do with room acoustics and placement, which is a determining factor as to whether a ported or sealed subwoofer would perform best.


That said we do have products other than the 18.0 that compare more closely both in cost and performance to the others mentioned.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 /forum/post/19534895


thanks for your input nathan, I am now curious to know which subs you would cosider a close comparison to the other two mentioned. Thanks

I think he is referring back to the OP mentioning the HSU VTF15 and the SVS PB-13 Ultra.


It should also be pointed out that the latest version of the PB-13 Ultra has the 1,000 watt SLEDGE amp, and the 750 watt BASH version of the PB-13 is no longer available new (at least not from SVS-USA).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/19536056


I think he is referring back to the OP mentioning the HSU VTF15 and the SVS PB-13 Ultra.

I think that is what Devin (the OP) was referring to - wanting to know what Nathan offered that would be more of a direct comparison.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves /forum/post/19534472


Being a sealed design the 18.0 is a completely different animal. The advantages and disadvantages are quite different compared to a ported subwoofer. Cost being one factor, to get similar overall output costs more, but then you gain output below where a ported would be tuned, and sometimes above depending on the design, and usually in a smaller package.

Sound quality etc are quite subjective, and also have a lot to do with room acoustics and placement, which is a determining factor as to whether a ported or sealed subwoofer would perform best.


That said we do have products other than the 18.0 that compare more closely both in cost and performance to the others mentioned.

Don't forget to add that Room Size is a huge determining factor to make the ported to sealed comparison, IMO it generally takes about 1.5 sealed subs to match the output of a ported alignment.


Note that the LMS is truly a GIANT amongst men, it is the last line in terms of accuracy and output. Its not the most efficient driver avail, so it takes some big power to draw out the last ounce of excursion, but you will be hard pretty to find a driver that offers the tightness of the Linear Motor design...


I just got my Submersive and its awesome, clean - tight, great output... If it was my first sealed sub I would think it was pretty much as good as it gets, but I have to be honest the LMS's are def in a different league in terms of SQ.... No offense to the Mark Seaton - he builds a fantastic product which is exactly why I bought one, and I heard it before I bought it a couple of times...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240
I think that is what Devin (the OP) was referring to - wanting to know what Nathan offered that would be more of a direct comparison.
precisely
, but i've just added another sub into the mix, I have been doing some reading over at the ULS-15 thread and i'm liking what i'm hearing so far. duals would be sweet.
I haven't come across a head to head comparison between the ULS-15 and the ultra yet, but I bet its in the ULS-15 thread somewhere.
 

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Devin,


The 15 series, specifically the 15.3 offers very good performance for the money, it is now smaller 22" cube (haven't updated the site yet waiting on the new prototype should have pictures in a week), I would put it in the same category as the others mentioned.


With the upgrade to the TC LMS15 driver it offers comparable SQ to the 18.0, and with the 2000 watt amp ~3db more output 40~18hz, fyi the 15.3 with the LMS driver and 2kw amp is the bigger brother to the 12.X being reviewed. It has the nearly the same output 20-25hz but a little more below 20hz and 2~4db more above 25hz, and uses the 15" version of the same driver, so the three would all have the great LMS sound quality.


Kyle


The 18.3 is the best of all worlds, Incredible SQ nearly the same low end output and extension, when tuned low, as it would with the LMS5400, but more than makes up for it over 60hz, much cleaner upper/mid bass and massive output. Just for comparison sake though the 15.3 with the LMS driver and 2kw amp has the same max output as the 18.3 from 25-40hz less above and below, but it shows how good a value the 15.3 is.


Warpdrv


Room acoustics was meant to include size, as that is a major factor in overall room acoustics, thanks for clarifying that, I should have been more specific.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"QUOTE" Devin,The 15 series, specifically the 15.3 offers very good performance for the money, it is now smaller 22" cube (haven?t updated the site yet waiting on the new prototype should have pictures in a week), I would put it in the same category as the others mentioned. With the upgrade to the TC LMS15 driver it offers comparable SQ to the 18.0, and with the 2000 watt amp ~3db more output 40~18hz, fyi the 15.3 with the LMS driver and 2kw amp is the bigger brother to the 12.X being reviewed. It has the nearly the same output 20-25hz but a little more below 20hz and 2~4db more above 25hz, and uses the 15" version of the same driver, so the three would all have the great LMS sound quality. ............................................................ ............................................................ ........ Very interested to see how it turns out, will be the same price as your current 15.3 model?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves /forum/post/19539631


Devin,


The 15 series, specifically the 15.3 offers very good performance for the money, it is now smaller 22" cube (haven't updated the site yet waiting on the new prototype should have pictures in a week), I would put it in the same category as the others mentioned.


With the upgrade to the TC LMS15 driver it offers comparable SQ to the 18.0, and with the 2000 watt amp ~3db more output 40~18hz, fyi the 15.3 with the LMS driver and 2kw amp is the bigger brother to the 12.X being reviewed. It has the nearly the same output 20-25hz but a little more below 20hz and 2~4db more above 25hz, and uses the 15" version of the same driver, so the three would all have the great LMS sound quality.


Kyle


The 18.3 is the best of all worlds, Incredible SQ nearly the same low end output and extension, when tuned low, as it would with the LMS5400, but more than makes up for it over 60hz, much cleaner upper/mid bass and massive output. Just for comparison sake though the 15.3 with the LMS driver and 2kw amp has the same max output as the 18.3 from 25-40hz less above and below, but it shows how good a value the 15.3 is.


Warpdrv


Room acoustics was meant to include size, as that is a major factor in overall room acoustics, thanks for clarifying that, I should have been more specific.

Hi,


Your 18.3 sub can you get it with both drivers being LMS or it only has to be one? from the pic on the website
 
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