[tdemelle]

I posted this question on the HTPC forum a couple days ago, but didn't get a response. Thought I'd try my luck here...


When I startup my HTPC, although my G11 displays the lower rez VGA booting screens fine, it has a very difficult time auto syncing at the desktop at SXGA3.


I've got the G11 fed via a 2 meter Bettercables VGA->RGBHV from port 1 on the Gainward Twinview card and into computer 2 on the G11. It's set to autosync and I've got perfect timings set up with Dilard, Powerstrip and a custom G11 driver made through powerstrip.


Occassionally the image will flicker as if it's trying to sync, and then after a while it will usually "warm up" and sync. Sometimes it takes a frustratingly long while and all my noodling with the display profiles and monitor control panel on the cloned desktop monitor doesn't seem to help. Sure would be nice to get it rock solid! Any ideas?


Thanks!



------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[David Panko]

Hi Todd,


Try setting both the horizontal and vertical polarity to positive. It could also be that the refresh rate is off.. SXGA3 only auto-syncs to 75Hz.


Worse case, turn off the auto-sync and leave it on SXGA3. You just won't be able to read the boot screen, which isn't a big deal.


Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Mark Hunter]

...Also, changing the resolution of SXGA3 from 1365x1024 to 1360x768 (which is fairly common) will mean that the AUTO sync. won't pick SXGA3 any more (it will pick SXGA2 instead). If you are a PowerStrip user, or have otherwise created custom resolutions, then AUTO doesn't work as advertised.


I wish that there was a way to reprogram how "AUTO" works, but there doesn't appear to be...


As Dave mentioned, you many need to manually select the input you wish to use.

 

[tdemelle]

Crumbs. It would be nice if autosync worked with the 1360 resolution... not just for the boot screens, but certain games I play go through menu screens and so forth which are at different resolutions and which won't be easy to navigate without autosync.


Additionally, my problem may go beyond the 1360/1365 discrepancy as specifically choosing SXGA3 doesn't result in any sync improvement. It still just takes time for it to "warm up". Doesn't really impress the friends! "um, could sync up any time now..."


A question about refresh rates... in Powerstrip there seem to be 2 refresh rates, one for vertical the other for horizontal. The preconfigured horizontal refresh rate for the DILA is 76. Should I change that to 75? Am I looking in the right place?


In the advanced settings dialogue box in the monitors control panel under the adaptor tab the refresh rate was at 72, switching it to 75 doesn't seem to help. Eek.


I'm a bit confused how the dual monitors through the twinview should be working together in my installation. Although the G11 is hooked up to the primary VGA port on my twinview card, the driver that gets listed in my monitors control panel is the one for my desktop monitor which is on the 2nd port. Hmmmm. Is that what the 72 Hz refresh rate above refers to?


Is there any such thing as a G11 driver apart from something custom generated through Powerstrip?


It all seems a bit knotty. Any help or pointers is/are appreciated!



------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[tdemelle]

Going back over the elements of this problem, I think I may have found a possible primary culprit. The Dilard Mod I loaded is for perfect timings using Comp 1. I am using Comp 2. Think this could be it?


I took a look on the Dilard support site, but didn't see a mod for 1360x1024 for Comp2. Is there such a beast publically available, Mark? Or am I gonna need to read the Dilard instruction manual? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Thanks!


------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[Mark Hunter]

Hi Todd,


I've got bad news for you, buddy. The mod trading activity level isn't what I expected it to be. In fact, I've had to fill the bin o' mods almost completely by myself (but many thanks to those who have contributed!).


Unfortunately, that means that the only stuff available is for equipment/uses that I personally have (which is modest, at best). I have always done everything through Computer 1, so many of the mods on the site were created on that input. I just recently started using Computer 2.


...By the way, once you are done making those Computer 2 mods, you might want to upload them to the bin o' mods http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif <big grin>.

 

[CCLAY]

Todd,


I have exactly the same setup as you. I've done the mods on Comp.2 but they won't help too much as my screen/mounting is different than most.

I can e-mail if you wish, though. I'm actually in Mammoth Mountain skiing now, so give me a few days.


Mark, I think the reason for the lack of uploaded mods is the fact that most installs are different to the point of one mod not working for the next guy, for example I shot a DTC HD mod to a fellow member that worked perfect for me but not for him. On the other hand, nothing to lose, right?

Maybe I'll start sending some over.


Chris

 

[tdemelle]

I am just getting around to sleuthing this mod thing out after being out of town a few days. Thanks for your email, Chris.


Working as I type this message:


In the Dilard Geometry Wizard I load up the settings from my projector. To the best of my knowledge, these should be the settings from the perfect timings mod that comes with the Dilard installation. I had installed these immediately after setting up.


I select the SXGA3 through Computer2 memory to work on.


The first thing I notice that looks out of whack when looking at these settings is that the height dimension is set at 1027. I change that to 1024.


That is about it for intuitive changes to my layman's eyes. Looking at the Dilard manual's descriptions of the advanced settings encourages me that there is more to try should this not work (Pulse Adjustment, Voltage Control Osc. Gain), but I'm hesitant to noodle around with those just yet. Is the setting of these adjustments merely guess work?


Is there any other setting or set of settings which would make the original Dilard perfect timing mods work for Computer1 for which they were written and not Computer2 which I am using?


Thanks! Fingers crossed...


------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

Hi Todd,


You ARE using the "no, I'm viewing this on a seperate monitor" feature, right. That's one of the neatest things for tweaking the mods. You can go hog wild, screw up, but always bring it back because changes in the Image Wizard won't be seen on the 2nd monitor.


Anyway, I'm a little confused as to what you're trying to do. Is this all just to get SXGA3 to sync quicker? When you say it looks out of whack, do you mean the number 1027 compared to 1024? I wouldn't worry about that too much. I've had to expand those numbers a few times, but only for the sake of being able to view all of the lines of res in my image, vertical or horizontal, not for any other reason.


You should be able to pick the mod you were using for comp1 in the wizard, load it using the comp2 selection(no need to backup, as you already have it saved), save and name it, SXGA3 Mod on Comp 2, for example, and off you go.


Chris

 

[CCLAY]

Twin view manual? Now THAT'S funny. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


The only help you're gonna get's gonna come from this great forum.


Fortunately, my friend, I've been through the whole gamut of twin view tribulations.


If you want to go to e-mail, let me know.


Your're right, there's a myriad of possibilities to deal with. I've got my setup very stable now. An occasional hiccup in booting up to the 2nd monitor, but that's it. You MUST use the 649 drivers for the card, period. I've tried most all the rest, always went back to the 649s.


Syncing to SXGA3 was the same on C1 as it was C2 for me. I stared on C2 with the PC, then switched to C1 when I got my DTC100 going. Sometimes it was quick, sometimes it wasn't. I've kind of learned to live with it. If you find something that fixes it, please let us know.


Chris

 

[tdemelle]

Thanks a bunch, Chris.


I had the 650 drivers loaded. I just tracked down and installed the 649s ( version 4.12.01.0649, 11/17/2000). Hopefully that will help stabilize things.


Although it may now be moot, what has had me scratching my head about the twinview installation is the fact that the G11 is in port 1, but that the display listed in the display properties settings dialogue box in the control panel is my desktop display, a 19" KDS monitor (which is in port 2 of the twinview). I wondered if the G11 was being driven by that driver instead of the one I made up through Powerstrip (which does show up listed with the KDS driver in my device manager).


Also, under the Twinview tab in the advanced settings under the monitor control panel, the "change resolution" option is greyed out under monitor 1 (the G11). I'm uncertain what the refresh rate is (ie is it 75Hz as David suggested it should be in the 2nd post in this thread?).


The only other access to refresh rate adjustment I could find is through Powerstrip, but it has both vertical and horizontal refresh rates, neither of which are 75. (the horizontal comes in closest at 76).


Finally, it has come to my understanding that although PS3 can support multiple monitors simultaneously, I don't think it can support 2 different ones through the same card (ie the twinview). I wondered how that might play into complicating things.


Thanks again!


------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

Todd,


The *Display:* in the settings tab should read "plug & play monitor on NVIDIA GF2". The display will then read from the Nvid driver, not your KDS driver. You don't need your KDS driver, I don't believe, as your G11 res/timing will be controlled by either the PStrip program thru the driver or the Nvid card/driver alone. Your 19" monitor will always be controlled by the twin view feature and Nvid driver. The only driver I have in Dev Mgr is the Nvidia.


The 2nd monitor will output higher res., but the way I have mine set up it won't. If I go to "change res." on the 2nd monitor, it reads "0 x 0 pixels" and my refresh rate is blank. I think it's because of the way I've setup my configs, though. If you have need to have hi res on your monitor, you'll have to play with a bunch. I don't have a need to switch to hi res on my monitor, so I've not played with it too much.


"Change Resolution" will always be greyed out for primary monitor. Keep in mind that the Nvid cards/drivers come with their own res/refreshes, add to that Mark Rs xlnt additions to Pstrip that allowed us to include 1360 x 768, 1360 x 1024 and 1360 x 580 w/perfect timings. If you notice, until you go into Pstrip and manually add the 3 DILA resolutions, your monitor icon popup won't show them.


Powerstrip doesn't support twin view. you're right, but why should it? It's sending a signal to the vid card. The vid card then decides what to do with it from there. When I'm in 1360 x 768, my 2nd monitor shows an image way bigger than the display, so I have to drag the mouse far left and right to see the whole screen. Quite normal with twin view.


Chris


Chris


[This message has been edited by CCLAY (edited 05-06-2001).]

 

[tdemelle]

Chris,

Yes, this mod tweaking is an attempt to stabilize the syncing problems as described above. Using the default dilard perfect timings on computer 2 is what I did initially, but had doubts about their applicability based on a warning dialogue box generated by Dilard. During installation it said something to the effect, "this mod was designed for computer1 and not for computer2" That lead me to believe there must be something input specific in the mod file. That seemed like as good a lead to act on as any to my novice eyes. There are others, however.


As I explained in more detail above, I'm still not confident I have my video card/drivers/refresh rate all set up optimally, but it's hard to troubleshoot using so many different resources. Powerstrip, monitor control panel/twinview control panel, custom drivers. I emailed Ashley of Powerstrip fame, asking him to look at the thread and he responded:

I did check your thread, but I don't have a DILA and I believe this

is source of the anomoly or it would happen with all output devices,

including CRTs.

If there's something specific related to the GF2 you think I might try, let

me know. But it currently takes only a fraction of a second for PowerStrip

to get an NVidia card to *output* a custom timing - and that's all PS3

really has control over.


(By contrast, with the Radeon, PS3 can take 10 times longer because there

are many more possible operations involved, but this is still a second or

less total.)


I think I need to get a better sense of how the video drivers work with the twinview and of how PS3 works with the drivers. Hope I can find my twinview manual in my as yet unpacked studio stuff!


It's strange to me how after the G11 does finally sync to SXGA3, it has no problem jumping back and forth between it and other different resolutions. The delay in sync only occurs on startup.


Thanks!


------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

Todd,


I'm not in front of my home PC right now but I think my monitor driver is the default "P & P Monitor". I'm not really sure if having the KDS driver in this spot is a good thing or bad, or neither. My 2nd monitor will only do up to 800 x 600, a standard windows res., so I haven't needed anything else. Try *update driver* to the P & P monitor driver and see what happens.


Quote

"I do have an NVidia driver installed for my "display adapter" in my device manager and the custom G11 driver and the KDS driver installed for my "monitors"."


The *custom G11 driver* is where? In monitor or the display adapter? I've never seen a custom G11 driver. Did you make it through Pstrip?


Quote

"my change res screen on monitor 2 reads 1360x1024 at 72Hz. Is that what's feeding monitor 1 also?"


Good question, but probably not. The primary should be displaying what Pstrip is set to. On the other hand, there is a set of options deep in the vid card properties that allow you to change the overlays output A/R as well as the primary monitors A/R. I think it's called something like Video Mirror Control or Zoom or something like that. I had a bit of trouble with it. I don't remember which boxes I have checked, but later tonight I'll check them and let you know what they are. I think that if your KDS will do 1360 x 1024, your're in good shape. Mine won't, and I've burned up two monitors finding that out. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif Good thing they were cheapos. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I'm not a gamer, so I don't know about the Quake3 game.


Chris

 

[tdemelle]

Quote:

Originally posted by CCLAY: I'm not in front of my home PC right now but I think my monitor driver is the default "P & P Monitor". I'm not really sure if having the KDS driver in this spot is a good thing or bad, or neither. My 2nd monitor will only do up to 800 x 600, a standard windows res., so I haven't needed anything else. Try *update driver* to the P & P monitor driver and see what happens.

I have made this change. I'll see if it works next time I restart after cooldown.

Quote:

The *custom G11 driver* is where? In monitor or the display adapter? I've never seen a custom G11 driver. Did you make it through Pstrip?

Quote:

You can make custom drivers with Powerstrip by choosing that option under Options/Monitor Information. I just plugged data in from the G11 tech specs at the back of the manual and loaded it up through the device manager where it is now listed under Monitors. Although it says it's working properly, maybe I was being too thorough and would be better off deleting it!



------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

Interesting. I remember reading of the ability to do a G11 driver in Pstrip, but never bothered with it. You know, "don't screw up a good thing" thinking. Let me know if you find any benefits to it.


Chris

 

[tdemelle]

Quote:

Originally posted by CCLAY: The *Display:* in the settings tab should read "plug & play monitor on NVIDIA GF2". The display will then read from the Nvid driver, not your KDS driver. You don't need your KDS driver, I don't believe, as your G11 res/timing will be controlled by either the PStrip program thru the driver or the Nvid card/driver alone. Your 19" monitor will always be controlled by the twin view feature and Nvid driver. The only driver I have in Dev Mgr is the Nvidia.

I tried to achieve this blissful driver state, but was unable to transcend beyond the KDS driver. The KDS is the only monitor driver the device manager seems to be allowing me to install by default and I don't see an NVidia driver in my full monitor driver library.


To clarify, I do have an NVidia driver installed for my "display adapter" in my device manager and the custom G11 driver and the KDS driver installed for my "monitors".


Should I remove my monitor drivers altogether? Will the NVidia display adapter driver take over from there?

Quote:

The 2nd monitor will output higher res., but the way I have mine set up it won't. If I go to "change res." on the 2nd monitor, it reads "0 x 0 pixels" and my refresh rate is blank. I think it's because of the way I've setup my configs, though. If you have need to have hi res on your monitor, you'll have to play with a bunch. I don't have a need to switch to hi res on my monitor, so I've not played with it too much.

Quote:

Hmmm... my change res screen on monitor 2 reads 1360x1024 at 72Hz. Is that what's feeding monitor 1 also? As far as I can see, there is no entry of 72Hz in my Powerstrip config so I'm not sure where that comes from. Perhaps the KDS driver. Setting it to 75Hz doesn't seem to matter as restarting sets it back to 72.

Quote:

"Change Resolution" will always be greyed out for primary monitor. Keep in mind that the Nvid cards/drivers come with their own res/refreshes, add to that Mark Rs xlnt additions to Pstrip that allowed us to include 1360 x 768, 1360 x 1024 and 1360 x 580 w/perfect timings. If you notice, until you go into Pstrip and manually add the 3 DILA resolutions, your monitor icon popup won't show them.

Quote:

Yes, I have noticed that. In fact I was pleasantly surprised when those resolutions appeared in the options of one of my favorite games. They did not appear in Quake3's resolution options however. Do you happen to know if that's possible to achieve.

Quote:

Powerstrip doesn't support twin view. you're right, but why should it? It's sending a signal to the vid card. The vid card then decides what to do with it from there. When I'm in 1360 x 768, my 2nd monitor shows an image way bigger than the display, so I have to drag the mouse far left and right to see the whole screen. Quite normal with twin view.

Quote:

My setup is working so that 1360x1024 fills both the projected image and the 2nd monitor perfectly without having to scroll. I would hate to lose that. I don't like the viewable area scrolling around with the mouse.


Thanks again, Chris!



------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

Todd,


In the *Full Screen Video Mirror Control* panel, I have *Auto* and *Full Screen* checked, nothing else. What is yours?


Chris

 

[tdemelle]

I've got "disable" checked under full screen device and "track overlay aspect" checked under aspect ratio.


I also have "allow driver to select the full screen mode" checked.


I have no idea what these things mean.


------------------


Todd

The HT-2-B

 

[CCLAY]

I didn't either until I started playing around with them. I found that I could get my windows 1360 x 1024 screen to display properly on the 2nd monitor, without having to drag the mouse to view the entire screen, but then the Nvid overlay would be flickering when I ran a DVD. Unfortunately, I haven't found any info on how exactly each of these choices relate to the primary display and the secondary display.


Take an evening, plug in a DVD and start making a change at a time and see what happens. On the other hand, if you're happy with the way your vid card is sending info to your G11 and KDS, don't mess with them.


We sort of got off your topic here, but I don't think changing these things will do anything to resolve the issue of the SXGA3 quick sync problem.


Chris