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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I apologize. There are many threads. I have literally spent the last 4 days agonizing over reviews.


Heres what I find:

Cnet barely rates anything high that is not plasma or $4k+


AVS Has a wealth of info. Perhaps too much.



Our TV is in a 20x25 room. The chairs dit around it as close as 6' and as far as 15'. We also watch from the kitchen (our house is long and rectangular in this regard).


We have a 10x6' picture window that is always closed that faces SW. We have a patio window that is always closed, facing same. In the summer and winter (with snow) we can see the outline of the blinds on the TV we currently have

(42HP95 Toshiba).


I bought this TV for my basement since I watched TV at night, played video games, etc. However, this house now, it is primarily watched during day. No serious movie viewing is done beyond child/pixar movies. We watch sports and cartoons during day.


I have eyed the new pannys, G20, VT20 at BB, they look really nice. But the collective agreement is, 1) rising blacks may or may not be an issue, but any well lit area washes out the screen.


Cnet refers to the C8000 by samsung for applications when in a brighter room, since it seems brighter. However, I do not have access to one. BB couldnt find their 8000. Really downplayed quality of it compared to G20.


Vizio (which suprised me) got good ratings, but I cannot access them locally it seems (unless i am unfamiliar with a retailer like sears, etc carrying them. I rarely do shopping there, simply because theyre usually setup terrible. Walmart had a 4:3 zoomed playing on their "HIGH DEF TV!"


Sony get good reviews. Bravias are cheap. I however purchased a cheap 32 for the upstairs, more or less by going to sams and saying, not ******, ok happy bday wife, and she is unhappy with my lack of foresight. I dont watch tv up there though




My gut tells me to stick with plasma. I dont want to see ghosting during football, hockey, etc. That will make things unwatchable. My bro got a 50s LG, and there is a setting that helps with the ghosting, but he says it makes everything look wierd.





Feedback?


And yes, I am sure this has been asked. When I typed the subject i read all articles, and nothing covered everything. Many were just people complaining about similar posts and to use search, which seems a touch hyppocritical



Any suggestions on brands and models to ad to my VS would be appreciated.


I am around 1000-2500. Once i find a good tv, i dont mind sitting on my ass through cyber monday all the way to day after christmas sales.


3d isnt needed. VT20 was considered simply because of the package deal and the higher 2d PQ.

(which seems silly in a bright room)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by in-mn /forum/post/19526766


it is primarily watched during day. No serious movie viewing is done beyond child/pixar movies. We watch sports and cartoons during day. I have eyed the new pannys, G20, VT20 at BB, they look really nice. But the collective agreement is, 1) rising blacks may or may not be an issue, but any well lit area washes out the screen.

I have the most affected model (a 2009 G10) and honestly the only time i notice the risen black level is only when my room is completely dark and then only when watching dark content, like a dark scene on a movie. While watching HD TV programming and brighter movies at night, in my dark living room with no lights on, i really don't notice the risen black levels 98% of the time. Black suits, hair, cars, furniture etc in the scenes all still look plenty black enough. If a scene happens to go very dark, yeah i see it but the blacks still look black and it doesn't really bother me.


During the daytime, it's a whole nuther story - the risen black levels aren't noticeable at all. It's kinda like the effect of how the black levels of the LCD TVs look better under bright store lighting, but glow in a darkened room. In other words, when watching brighter content in the daytime or in a lighted room a risen black level isn't nearly as noticeable as it is at night in a dark room. HD Speedchannel, HD Theater, DiscoveryHD, CNN-HD, Sports and Sitcoms etc all look great on my G10 during the daytime in my bright living room. And the G20/G25 (as well as the VT20/VT25) have even better initial black levels and better AR Filters than my G10, and the blacks on those black levels will rise much slower than they did on my G10.


Most of the negative discussion you see about this issue is from people that don't even own an affected model, others who are just making a mountain out of a molehill, and the rest are owners of an affected model that do watch dark content in a dark room and are justified in their disappointment. People love to complain on message forums, even when they are not directly affected or involved. Most of the complaining you see from owners are owners of 2009 models (G10 and V10).


Quote:
Cnet refers to the C8000 by samsung for applications when in a brighter room, since it seems brighter. However, I do not have access to one. BB couldnt find their 8000. Really downplayed quality of it compared to G20.

I think i've read that the C8000 has Samsung's better AR Filter, but reviews and owners tend to indicate that the G20/G25 and VT20/VT25 have an even better AR Filter. When i've looked at the various TVs at my local stores, this does seem to be the case. The Filter on the VT20/VT25 is a little better than the one on the G20/G25, but the G's is still excellent. Much better than the one on my older G10. The new G and VT Panasonic AR Filters are very much like Pioneer used on their Kuro, which makes sense since Panasonic bought all of Pioneer's plasma patents a few years ago.


Quote:
My gut tells me to stick with plasma. I dont want to see ghosting during football, hockey, etc. That will make things unwatchable. My bro got a 50s LG, and there is a setting that helps with the ghosting, but he says it makes everything look wierd.

Plasma is the way to go.


Quote:
Any suggestions on brands and models to ad to my VS would be appreciated. I am around 1000-2500. 3d isnt needed. VT20 was considered simply because of the package deal and the higher 2d PQ (which seems silly in a bright room)

I get the impression that you're limited to dealing with Best Buy which means you're also limited to getting a 50" screen size (The G20 and VT20 at BB max out at 50"), but the G20/G25 is available elsewhere in a 54" size for a little over half of your max budget (Sears and Costco had em for a while). The G20/G25 series is the best bang for the buck and is about 90% as good as a VT20/VT25 but at about half the price. If 50" or 54" is big enough for you, then i don't see any need for you to spend a ton more money for a a VT20/VT25 series.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you very much for the detailed response.


You are correct in your assessment. BB is the only real consumer electronic shop that carries TVs.


I havent been into sears for a year, but they have never impressed me with their awful split feed setup in a non dimmed area. Best buy of course is not ideal, but its really the only way to at least view the G/Vt series up front, as well as various samsung lcds.


A 55 would be great, larger most likely will overshoot my picture windows behind the TV and I have OCD when it comes to symmetry.


Thank you for your input though on the G10. I almost pulled the trigger on a bundle deal for a G20 that was heavily discounted and included free crap.


I will probably cruise over to sears just for giggles. I just really hate that store. Everytime i have gone there to purchase large ticket items I know I want, I get stupid salespeople that waste my time.


Nothing like waiting 45 minutes to buy their top of line water softener (only reason i went in was to get sample kits for hardness testing). Hate that place
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I spent some time intimately annoying the hell out of my local BB sales rep.


"LED Produces the best blacks" was my favorite sentence of the day.


I couldnt find a c8000. The G20 that was on bargain (50") was on silly 3d mode. My wife kept going back to the Vt25 and playing with it. Wow, the soccer ball shoots at you!




Anyways, to add substance, it does seem that the g/vt does reflect less light. However, the c7000 plasma's colors were much much brighter. Borderline obnoxious. But it makes sense why cnet referred to samsungs fairing well in brighter rooms. I think the G/VT though on display looked way more accurate.


I watched a fair amount on EX800 and the LG something something LED LCD's. They both make things look like soap opera mode. Its like watching my video shot with my HG10.


I walked away though very disappointed that the only LCD/led combo i found to NOT have a glossy screen was the Vizio. I understand that the reflective glass adds a touch of asthetics, but really - people selling LED's because theyre for "Bright rooms" that are MORE reflective than plasmas is just silly.



I hate TV shopping. I wish i could go back to not caring. Rolling up and saying sure, 3500 for a 42" toshiba is worth it, why not, just send it to my house.
 
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