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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Recently moved to a G70 CRT and I'm currently using a Faroudja DVP-2200 (600p).


I want to scale higher and initially just figured I'd go to the Faroudja 3000 to get 960p, but after reading more about the recent batch of scalers available it appears I need more info.


The high runner around here seems to be the Vigatec. However, quality of scaling video, LD, DSS, in addition to DVD is important to me. Reviewing the comments on the Vigatec seem to indicate that it performs well on DVD, but not so hot on the others.


I know the Faroudja 3000 does well on everything, although perhaps not as well on DVD as the Vigatec, but I really like the option of being able to drive the G70 at higher vHz with the Vigatec rather than being stuck at 60Hz with the Faroudja.


Given my requirements, any opinions on why I should choose one over the other?


Thanks in advance for any advice/comments?


Cheers, Karl
 

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Karl,


Forget the 3000. Look at the Runco PFP-11, the Faroudja NR (I "think" it does 960p but it may not), and at the Rock+. Those 3 would be my front contenders. I'm about to to a review of the Runco PFP I have with a new Faroudja NR at 720p. I would like to also take a look at the Rock+ - it looks promising.


Only the Rock+ will do higher than a 60Hz vertical refresh rate, but that is not as important IMO as de-interlacing and scaling, color, resolution, etc.


You don't need to care about SDI/DVI as a CRT owner yet.


Bogdan
 

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Karl,


I have the G70 and I have upgraded from the Faroudja 2200 to 3000, scaling to both 960p and 720p depending on the movie source I watched. The 2200 is not a match of the 3000 even both are set at 600p output. I've also tested the Vigatec against the 3000 on dvd source. The latter wins hands down. In comparison, the 3000's picture is much more dynamic between the white and black levels, the colour is vivid, bright and authentic and the image details are rendered very smooth and refined. Perhaps I don't need to mention the superiority of its DCDI system as well as the deinterlacing capability.


The 3000's reliability is incredible. From day 1 it was installed in my system, it works flawless without the slightest glitch. There is no worry about any firmware upgrading, system compatibility, etc. etc. Sit back and enjoy and you almost forgot there is a Faroudja in the system. BTW, the default setting of the 3000 won't give you a good picture, especially in colour rendering. It is of utmost importance to calibrate the entire system using the Avia or VE dvds.


The Fouradja NRS is a good substitute for 3000 from a value for money point of view. You can order the 1024x768 or 1280x768 version. I have tested a 1024x768 NRS in my system. Although it performs quite well in dvd, both its S-video and composite input are quite noisy. The picture of the NRS is as sharp as the 3000 but when it comes to colour fidelity and image details, the 3000 shows an edge over the NRS by having everything just a bit more detailed and authentic. This perhaps has something to do with the exquisite components that are built into the 3000.


Obviously you expect my answer is to get a 3000. However, I must caution you that buying a 3000 in this time and age is a big decision. You have to be prepared that there is very limited 2nd hand market for this unit given the competition from other scalers. You also need to get the latest production batch of 3000 (i.e. buying new) because earlier units have limitation in achieving the peak performance.


My advice is that if you're considering the value for money performance, forget the 3000. And if you're only looking for picture quality and money is not the concern, go and have a good audition of all the available scalers, compare each using dvds of both good and average quality to see their true performance. DO NOT just rely on those demo quality dvds because they only tell one side of the performance. Of course, you also need to compare the picture quality using S-video and composite sources.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by TK Chan



I have the G70 and I have upgraded from the Faroudja 2200 to 3000, scaling to both 960p and 720p depending on the movie source I watched. .
TK:


Based on your setup, what movie source prompts you to choose 720p, and what setup prompts 960p? Is this source dependent (e.g., DVDs are one rate, LDs another), or is it dependent on differences within the formats (e.g., anamorphic DVDs are one rate, non-anamorphic another)?


Please explain the relative advantages and disadvantages associated with each choice.


Thanks,


Nick :cool:
 

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TK Chan


Do you think a scaler with sdi connection from a sdi dvd player would give a better picture on a G70, especially with the ability to use a 72hz refresh rate at 960p. If so, that leaves the F3000 out and consideration of the Rock +, Vigatec, etc. which can have sdi options. The DCDi of the faroudja is king of the hill but from many postings it seems the Clearmatrix algorithim in the Leeza and Rock+ is a very close second for video based material. All this and still less expensive than the F3000.
 

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Karl:

I use a Quasdscan set to 960p with my G70 and it's a near perfect match.

It sounds like you already know this, but the G70 really shines with signals above the 55 to 60 khz range. The NR would not do that with it's 60 kz refresh rate using the 720p or 768p options.

The 3000 will do 960p so that would be your best option, but it's expensive and it's resale value is very limited due to the emergence of the NR series.

You might want to at least try a used Quadscan before you make a larger investment in one of the other options.

Look for a used 2.05 Quadscan if you can find one, and get a firmware upgrade for it from Focus.

Some people may flame me for even suggesting this, but the 2.05 unit I have produces a picture comparable to my Radeon HTPC. So much so that

I'm even considering selling the HTPC.
 

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Gotta throw in my 2 cents. First off, my Faroudja looked better at 60hz on everything when compared to my current Leeza. At 60hz on the Leeza everything is unwatchable..go figure. I must drive my Leeza at 72hz to obtain an excellent image but, still not as good as the NR at 60hz on video based material. That said, Bogdan and I have had an ongoing "war" over the Runco PFP series, I had one for review and was offered the unit essentially for free, I still sent it back. I also had another member JLM, as well as 2 other magazine writers call or come over to discuss or view the PFP series. In short, cross it off of your list, a dvdo or quadscan is a huge leap in performance over the Runco and at $7-9000 you would be brain dead to even consider it. Why do you see no one discussing it here? It's not money, faroudja's cost 3 times as much. Why no reviews anywhere? Enough said.

The NR series does not make a 960 rate so if you need 960, forget the NR. The fact that the bigger faroudjas only output 60hz is only a problem if you watch something through the faroudja at 60hz and it looks unacceptable. My viewing with the NR at 60hz looked perfect, no jerkiness or unnatural movement. With the Leeza, 60hz looks horrendous and unnatural so 72hz is my best option. If the ideal rate for your projector is 720, go with the NR. If it is 960 TRY the bigger faroudja's and see. If it looks unnatural, you will need to look elsewhere for a scaler that has higher refresh rates. My bet is that 960 @ 60hz on the faroudja will look outstanding. No one argues that it has the best deinterlacing and color on the market, hands down. I have clearmatrix and it isn't close to faroudja's dcdi, believe me. Going further, clearmatrix is far better than the deinterlacing on the Vigatech, so it is my opinion that if deinterlacing is a big part of your viewing, forget the Vigatech altogether. My opinions, of course.
 

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Nick,


The 960p has a little bit more of dynamic than the 720p but the latter renders an edge better in showing complex details. Movie source with dark scenes (e.g. dark city, U571, Mission to Mars) may get a better picture in 960p. LDs will also show better in 960p.


jlanzy,


I haven't had the opportunity of seeing the sdi in action so I really cannot comment on the performance vis-a-vis the 3000. I know Alan of AVS has spoken highly of this format and he thinks this is the best combo. The pros and cons of 60Hz and 72Hz have been discussed in this forum many times. As I see it, Faroudja has the best formula for working in 60Hz and whatever is good for 72Hz, it is because they don't work as good as Faroudja in 60Hz. I guess it is a piece of cake for Faroudja to adopt the algorithim to work in 72Hz if it is worth picturewise. It is absolutely true that the one major disadvantage of the 3000 is its high price. If it sells under $8000, I guess nothing will need to say further.
 

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Hello Karl,


I had just upgraded my scaler with my Nec Xg75 projector. I had a Quadscan scaler for about 5 months and I was not very happy with it. I was running triple TV.


And recently I upgraded to the Faroudja NR 1280x720 and I have to admit I am very very happy with this picture. The picture is more dynamic, more color full and just plain better than my previous quadscan.


I would think an 8inch Crt like the G70 would be a good match for the Faroudja NR. And you can pick up a used Faroudja NR unit used for as little as $2250 to $2500(US).


If you really want a picture with 72hz refresh rate or higher you can always add a HTPC with your scaler.


Just my 2cents, Brian
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bkwong73



I would think an 8inch Crt like the G70 would be a good match for the Faroudja NR.
Trust me when I tell you that 720p or 768p @60hz is not enough to make the G70 shine as well as it can.

You said you were using your Quadscan in triple mode. Did you ever try it at 960p?

And if not, do you still have it? It would be interesting if you could compare the Quadscan at 960p to your NR and report what you find (although I'm not sure an NEC XG75 can do 960p as well as a Sony G70)
 

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regarding following comment on the faroudja NR: "The Fouradja NRS is a good substitute for 3000 from a value for money point of view. You can order the 1024x768 or 1280x768 version."


ix-ne on the 1280x768; it's not made. you can get 1280x720 though.


re eric's commments on the 60hz unwatchable vs 72hz output on the leeza: i have not seen this difference in pq with my system which is practically identical to his with the exception that i do not have dvi hooked up yet, nor sdi. when all the fruit is the same, i'll report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for all the input!


Being familiar with the Faroudja interface already (VP-251 -> DVP-2200) I've decide to jump to the DVP-3000.


I'm confident the 3000 will generate a great image on our G70.


Thanks, Karl
 
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