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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm about to be a proud new owner of a Sony G90 & I'm looking for tips and descriptions of how people have their own G90's equipped and running, ie--what video processor, what resolution, what connection types, what screen size?


Also, I'm looking for do's and don'ts--ie--don't go any bigger than this for a screen, don't go any smaller than this for a screen, use this resolution, use that resolution, use the moome HDMI card, don't use the moome HDMI card, etc...


I'm also looking for set-up tips--ie--be sure and do this for gamma, be sure and do this for grayscale, be sure and do this for color, be sure and do this or that mod, etc...


G90 OWNERS--SHARE YOUR WISDOM!!!



Thank You!!!................Scott W.
 

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What size is your room? Is it light-controlled?

What sources will you be using? Cable? Satellite?

Do you already have a screen? Your screen size should likely be between 8'-9' wide.


Definitely get a HDMI adapter, like moome's HDMI+gamma IFB ( link ). Or wait for his upcoming external box ( link ). Or the HDFury looks promising, especially for only $150 ( link ).


[email protected] is probably what you want to feed the G90... you could play with other refresh rates (47.95 or 71.928), but it adds a lot of complexity to the video chain.


I suggest using a good HDMI A/V receiver. Route everything to the receiver... then use it as your switcher and connect one HDMI cable to the G90. I'm using the Yamaha HTR-6090. It also converts (without scaling) the component inputs to HDMI.


Here's my basic G90 setup:



At this point, my Lumagen HDP is only being used to deinterlace my HD cable box to from 1080i to 1080p... probably overkill. The DVDO VP50 would be good overkill too. But now that 1080P HDMI sources are becoming more common, something like the $399 Gefen boxes ( link ) would be sufficient and we probably don't need $1200-$2000+ video processors as much as we did before 1080p sources arrived.


Even if you're not a gamer, consider the XBox360 Elite and/or the PS3 as a DVD upscaler, HDDVD, and/or Bluray player. I use the X360 as a media extender to stream HD movies from my MCE2005 PC ( link ). Much easier than building a HTPC, plus there's no need for massive CPU or a top-notch video card... the XBox does all the video processing (and quite well). Plus, I like their wireless controllers better than the standard rectangular remotes.


Definitely contact a professional calibrator like Ken ( link ) or Terry ( link ). In one day, they'll be able to do a better job than 99.44% of us could do in a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Clarence,


Impressive! Thank you so much for taking the time. I can give you some info to help tailor any advice you or anyone chooses to give me...


On the audio side of things, I have a Classe Audio SSP-300 surround processor and CA-5100 5 channel amplifier. For video sources, I'll be using a Motorola HD DVR for broadcast. I will be getting the new 2nd gen Elite Blu-ray player. And I'll be getting an SDI-modded standard def DVD player.


The room will be completely light-controlled and the screen will be flush within a black fabric screenwall so all you'll see is the screen (16x9 StudioTek 130). I'll only be sitting 9 feet from the face of the screen, so 9 feet wide would be way too big. I actually was thinking 6', so the picture would really pop (pixel-oops-I-mean-line density baby!). Seems some confusion on whether the G90 will throw to that 'small' a screen(???)


At this point, I was thinking I would run everything thru something like the Lumagen HDQ. That way, even for 1080p sources like Blu-ray I have control over picture parameters like grayscale, gamma, [email protected] for the SDI standard def DVD player>to the HDQ via RGBHV output, 1080p24Hz>HDQ DVI in (w/HDMI>DVI adaptor), process to 1080p60Hz>out of HDQ DVI out>HDMI in of Moome IFB HDMI card, using the HDQ for gamma rather than the Moome card (and 1080p60Hz because I don't believe the G90 can do 1080p72Hz, which would be the ideal).


Any opinions on that thought and if someone would recommend something different based on their experience???


Thanks!.................Scott W.
 

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The Lumagen HDQ will be very nice with that setup. Since you plan on using the HDQ for gamma instead of the moome, the HDFury should be fine too.


I'm not familiar with the 2G Blu-Ray Elite, but hopefully you'll be able to go directly from 24p to 2:2 (47.95Hz) or 3:3 (71.928Hz). I've tried both and I prefer 47.95... looks like flickering crap on a PC desktop, but it's silky smooth on film content. The G90 will certainly accept and output 1080P72Hz, but on single-pixel test patterns, the lines start to soften.


But my HDP won't give [email protected] you have to reduce the horizontal resolution from 1920 down to about 1800. AFAIK/IIRC, the HDQ has the same bandwidth limit. So that's another good reason to consider [email protected] or my original suggestion of skipping the processor completely and just use [email protected] native from the source.


If you're only sitting 9' from the screen, then I'd recommend a 7-foot wide screen... that'll have a LOT of punch. The StudioTek 130 will be a very nice screen. You'll find that the ideal sitting position is about the same as the throw distance of a G90... so with a rule-of-thumb of [throw distance = screen width * 1.3] then sitting 9' back gives an optimal screen width of 6.9' (hence the 84" recommendation).


DVDs at [email protected] will be ideal... if your screen was larger, then I'd suspect you'd see scan lines at 960P, but since you're running a small screen, the lines will be effectively closer, so 960P72 will be ideal.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


Hi Clarence,


Impressive! Thank you so much for taking the time. I can give you some info to help tailor any advice you or anyone chooses to give me...


On the audio side of things, I have a Classe Audio SSP-300 surround processor and CA-5100 5 channel amplifier. For video sources, I'll be using a Motorola HD DVR for broadcast. I will be getting the new 2nd gen Elite Blu-ray player. And I'll be getting an SDI-modded standard def DVD player.


The room will be completely light-controlled and the screen will be flush within a black fabric screenwall so all you'll see is the screen (16x9 StudioTek 130). I'll only be sitting 9 feet from the face of the screen, so 9 feet wide would be way too big. I actually was thinking 6', so the picture would really pop (pixel-oops-I-mean-line density baby!). Seems some confusion on whether the G90 will throw to that 'small' a screen(???)


At this point, I was thinking I would run everything thru something like the Lumagen HDQ. That way, even for 1080p sources like Blu-ray I have control over picture parameters like grayscale, gamma, [email protected] for the SDI standard def DVD player>to the HDQ via RGBHV output, 1080p24Hz>HDQ DVI in (w/HDMI>DVI adaptor), process to 1080p60Hz>out of HDQ DVI out>HDMI in of Moome IFB HDMI card, using the HDQ for gamma rather than the Moome card (and 1080p60Hz because I don't believe the G90 can do 1080p72Hz, which would be the ideal).


Any opinions on that thought and if someone would recommend something different based on their experience???


Thanks!.................Scott W.


sounds to me like you have everything figured out already Scott



some other possibles I would maybe suggest, but the price goes up some, the Crystalio 3300 scaler offers the gamma etc. adjustments, and has a HDMI output which you could feed 10-bit HDMI to the standard moome HDMI Sony card in the G90, the Crystalio also has dual SDI inputs


the reason I mention this is that if you are picky, you will notice slight minor banding on 8-bit DVI


whatever you do you are gonna have a heck of a setup



-Gary
 

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Hello Scott,


Glad to hear that you're a G90 owner too ! I'm sure you'll enjoy it as myself.


About digital input add-on, you can also use one of my IFB-DVI input boards as well (see : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post10626784 ) There is still around 25 cards available and shipping is immediate.


Hope this helps


John
 

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I dont know if anything I have to say qualifies as 'wisdom' but I've been playing with my G90 for a few months now and grappled with most of the same questions. It is an awesome device, you will certainly enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


... what video processor, what resolution, what connection types...

Inputs, resolution, connection types - I use the built in Input A with RBGHV from my HTPC for standard DVDs. I use Theatertek and run them at [email protected] and prefer that since it doesnt judder and the scaling is a linear double of the native dvd resolution. Few artifacts and really smooth.


On Input B I have a moome card that I use with the Xbox360-Elite and PS3. Both of them on HDMI running through a cheap but surprisingly satisfactory switch. I hate scaling artifacts, so I usually run games at 720p (the PS3 forces you to run in the native resolution of the game, but the Xbox will scale - but things get soft). And I run HD-DVD and Blu-ray out of them at 1080p. The moome has the gamma correction stuff which I think helps a lot for these sources that dont let you adjust their video.


On Input C I have JohnHWman's DVI card and use that with a second output from my HTPC at [email protected] For both the DVI and RGB from the HTPC I've messed with the gamma correction in the video card and am pretty happy with it. I did have to shop around to find a DVI cable that would go the 25ft from my equipment room the the projector and not have pixel noise with John's card. The cable I got from bluejeanscable works fine, but the several others I had on hand all had sparkles. John's card does work fine, but its more sensitive to the long cable than any of the LCD monitors I have or the moome card - they all work fine with all the long DVI cables I have, but Johns was more finicky (dont know if its a general characteristic of his cards or just something about mine in particular).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


...Also, I'm looking for do's and don'ts--ie--don't go any bigger than this for a screen, don't go any smaller than this for a screen...

Screen size - This was a tough one for me. The room I have for my office/theater is big. And there is a natural wall surface that is ideal for the screen. Here are some pics of the layout when I was thinking about how to lay out stuff before we moved in: Early Theater Designs


My initial intention was to follow the advice of many of the people on the forum and keep the image to around 120" on the diagonal. With the wall I have, a full frame 16x9 image could be as large as 168" diagonally.


When I first got the projector I pulled it all the way back and made it fill the wall. I expected it to be dim soft and have poor edge/corner focus. It did not, it looked f*ing awesome. But I did do some experiments with pushing it forward to get a 120" picture and a few others in between. After the room was carpeted and painted and ready to get setup I put the projector back and set it up with the really big 14' diagonal screen.


Yes, at 10' it had more punch. But at full size it fits the space better, still looks perfectly satisfactory to me at contrast levels between 55 and 70 and lets me put couches along the whole back wall with seating for lots of folks.


My advice is to experiment with various sizes in your space and go with what you like. Many people would tell me my screen is too big for one G90 and I must stack/blend/whatever. But I'm happy with it, and thats all that matters (well, my wife likes it to, so that also kind of matters too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


...use this resolution, use that resolution...

I love CRTs because they will scan to whatever resolution I need. I really dont like scaling artifacts and prefer to run most everything at its native resolution or an even multiple. To me, it doesnt make a lot of sense to run everything through a video processor to get it to a particular resolution on a CRT projector. If it will run the native resolution without obvious scan lines or other problems from my viewing distance I'm much happier doing that. So for standard DVDs I run them at [email protected] via RGBHV. HD-DVD on the Xbox360 at 1080p via HDMI. Blu-ray on the PS3 at 1080p also on HDMI. Xbox360 games and PS3 games at whatever resolution they actually render at, usually 720p. General PC stuff at [email protected] via DVI. And for PC games it usually depends on how hard my poor little PC needs to work to get a reasonable framerate and I experiment with different resolutions to find something thats satisfactory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


... I'm also looking for set-up tips--ie--be sure and do this for gamma, be sure and do this for grayscale, be sure and do this for color...

I would also encourage you to get a G90 professional to help you with the setup. But make sure they do have specific G90 experience and know what they are doing.


This is my third sony projector and I suffer from this delusion that I can do it pretty much as good as anyone on my own. But the G90 is a huge step above my old D50 in complexity and I've put in a ton of time getting it setup. But I enjoy it and its as much of a hobby as anything. At this point I'm pretty happy with the mechanical setup, focus, registration and convergence.


The next big step for me is trying to get the colors adjusted properly. So far I've just set the bias and gain by eye to be what looks like white and an even greyscale to my eye - but I know for certain that its not "correct". The couple bits of specific advice I would pass along are to drop the green gain down to 220ish to keep it from wearing too quickly. And also dont shine full screen white images at contrast for any prolonged period of time (I'm told it can break the tubes).


Any CRT folk in San Diego with colorometry experience? I'd love to chat and maybe check out eachother's setups.



If you are setting it up yourself, all the standard cliche advice applies. Make sure it is absolutely center and square to the screen, do the mechanical aim of the guns as close to perfect as you can, set the lens flapping and optical focus to show the phosphor grain evenly across the whole screen, do the EM focus to get the dots as round and flare centered in all the zones as you can, do the registration and convergence with the basic adjustments as much as possible with only minimal zone clicks where needed. Touch up the EM focus, registration and convergence for each resolution you use. Make sure you have the installation and service manuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/0


... be sure and do this or that mod, etc ...

I'm personally weary of mods. With my D50 I had a spare projector for parts so there was little fear and I did a bunch of fan mods to quiet it down. If something did overheat or break I had replacement parts on hand. With the G90, there is a healthy fear of damaging it since I dont have a spare - and apparently nobody else does. But it is not a quiet projector, and I am interested in getting it to run quieter eventually but I'm not in a super hurry.


The advice I would give is to put thermal probes in the projector and monitor the temperatures it runs at with the stock fans before doing any mods. And then continue to monitor it after changing anything. Make sure you are aware of and comfortable with the temperatures it runs at.


Many people do recommend changing the green c-element. The stock one is relatively clear, and can be replaced with one from a marquee for more true green. But swapping the c-element is non trivial and will affect your color/greyscale. I got mine from vdc but have not installed it yet. I want to get my colors adjusted first and then do the swap when I have equipment to measure what the difference really is.
 

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Say Scott, a few of us have been hunting around for good local 9-inch CRT setups for some video comparisons, not sure if you're open to that kind of thing, it seems like all the enthusiasts in seattle have 8-inchers. But it might be fun. Let me know?
 
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