[JohnnyPraze]

I have a question regarding gaming lag.


I finally got around to hooking up my Sony HX800 I've had for months and have been tweaking/calibrating the last few days.


I can't stand Motionflow for BD, but I like it on CGI stuff, and it will probably look good on 3D material, but I don't have the equipment to test.

I played a few games with Motionflow on (240hz) and was really impressed with the graphical results. (games like GTA/RDR)


Question is, what kind of (or how much) lag is introduced by adding the extra frames? No other enhancements are turned on. I can't feel the lag, but know it's there. Is it comparable to the lag upscaling from 720p to 1080p? Comparable to a slow internet connection? What are we really talking here? (BC2 looked great lol)


I don't think I would try to play online with it, but it really looks great.

 

[darklordjames]

Grab Rock Band 2+ and a Rock Band 2 guitar and you can easily test yourself. Rough ballparking it though? Pretty normal for a quick HD display is about 30ms, or roughly 2 frames. 240hz modes tend to add on another 2-4 frames, or 33-67ms. In slower single player games like everything that you just listed, one is unlikely to feel any real lag until you hit 100ms. Yo are likely sitting right at the cusp of "feeling it".


Bring 240hz online though and you will be 2-4 frames behind everyone else. Very simply, they see you before you see them. Or, play a quick game like Shift 2, Rock Band, or Ms. Splosion Man and your performance will significantly drop from the 30ms baseline.


For games? Just turn that 240hz interpolation crap off. You're impressed with the result because it's new and fancy looking, not because it is actually adding anything to the experience.

 

[JohnnyPraze]

You're right, it doesn't add to the game so much, but makes a game like GTA look shiney and new. Watching the cars drive by in what looks like a silky smooth 60fps is pretty. Anyone with a Sony display have any experience? It certainly adds a little immersion.

 

[Raven Crimson]

Dejudder processing like Motionflow makes 30fps games look like 60fps games. Think Bad Company 2 looking like Modern Warfare. It's an amazing effect for games.


Problem is, dejudder adds a LOT of input lag, most noticeable on twitchy response sensitive games.

 

[JohnnyPraze]

Exactly, it makes BC2 look like COD.


I understand the reasoning behind not playing competively with it on, but on the other hand, I don't think people should completely write it off. I think it has its place. Like I said, I couldn't tell the difference playing GTA, but I still need to spend some more time with it.

 

[Raven Crimson]

The reason you can't tell in GTA is because that game's FPS is really jerky and slow at like 24fps (I believe it actually dips below this at times). Dejudder really only works on 30fps and above, though the exception to that is in movies. Because GTA is slow and not constant, it seems the processing can't figure out what to dejudder. Like when I try it with FFVII, it can't dejudder the battle graphics, because they run at a weak framerate. Too many missing frames for it to dejudder properly.


Also dejudder is pretty much useless with 60fps content as we can't discern between 60fps and above, though it makes moving objects slightly less blurry in direct comparison. 60 fps content is already judder free. For example: Motionflow literally does nothing to Modern Warfare and Wipeout HD which already run at 60fps.


I've had 3 different sets with dejudder, and all behave pretty much the same, the difference being how strong the dejudder processing is...


Samsung 4071F 120hz LCD (the first to use Auto Motion Plus... Samsung's dejudder)

Samsung 52B750 240hz LCD

Panasonic 65ST30 Plasma (the weakest dejudder out of the three)

 

[JohnnyPraze]

It makes a tremendous difference in GTA. I meant I can't tell a difference in gameplay. I don't feel/see the lag but the game looks much smoother.

 

[Raven Crimson]

Ah ok. Yeah, that's because GTA isn't extremely timing sensitive. I myself haven't played or tested this game with dejudder but saw the game on my roomie's CRT. That framerate is hideously slow, so if dejudder did work (as you did say it did), it would be a godsend.


I use dejudder for games like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry (might look like it is timing reliant, but it actually isn't THAT much), and other games where button presses aren't extremely timing sensitive.


I used to play CoD4 with dejudder and was so used to it, it didn't hamper my gameplay. That was until I turned it off and REALLY felt how many frames I was behind just because dejudder was on. It's crazy what you adapt to, but you are seriously limiting yourself in a twitchy game like that with dejudder on. Not that dejudder made a graphical improvement, but I left it on because it didn't initially bother me.

 

[bd2003]

I found that I really liked the effect on my SXRD. It added lag but the games looked so bad without it that it was worth it.


OTOH, once I got a plasma, the motion rendering was so much better that I find I dont need to use it. A 30fps game still looks like a 30fps game, but it just doesnt look as awful as it does on an LCD.

 

[mbyrnes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 /forum/post/20786824


I found that I really liked the effect on my SXRD. It added lag but the games looked so bad without it that it was worth it.


OTOH, once I got a plasma, the motion rendering was so much better that I find I dont need to use it. A 30fps game still looks like a 30fps game, but it just doesnt look as awful as it does on an LCD.

Agree with gaming on a plasma. Plasma is just so smooth and usually they have very low input lag so they are great for online play. I had a Samsung DLP before it and the input lag on it was pretty bad. It does make a difference in FPS games.

 

[Daekwan]

Plasma.


Only choice I'll ever make when gaming is involved.