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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I need some expert advice on designing a system for my garage.

WHERE

- Garage

- 30' x 40' Area

- 10' Walls

- Wood (OSB) covered walls

- Sheet-Metal covered ceiling (10' AGL)

- Concrete Floor (w/ ~0.5" thick rubber-type epoxy covering)

WHAT

- Garage is for "Man-Cave", "Party-Pad", etc

- Will have DVD Player connected to system (via either HDMI, or RCA L/R)

- Will have PC connected to system (via phono->RCA; L/R adapter)

OBJECTIVE

- Provide deep "physical-felt" bass, primarly from music listening

- Provide crystal-clear high-end/mid

- Lastly, there is a bit of echo -- if reasonable to fit into budget, I might try some acoustic treatment.


I'd like advice on designing the system, and figuring out what type of subwoofers, and main high/mid speakers, plus receiver.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19545922


Hi,

I need some expert advice on designing a system for my garage.

WHERE

- Garage

- 30' x 40' Area

- 10' Walls

- Wood (OSB) covered walls

- Sheet-Metal covered ceiling (10' AGL)

- Concrete Floor (w/ ~0.5" thick rubber-type epoxy covering)

WHAT

- Garage is for "Man-Cave", "Party-Pad", etc

- Will have DVD Player connected to system (via either HDMI, or RCA L/R)

- Will have PC connected to system (via phono->RCA; L/R adapter)

OBJECTIVE

- Provide deep "physical-felt" bass, primarly from music listening

- Provide crystal-clear high-end/mid

- Lastly, there is a bit of echo -- if reasonable to fit into budget, I might try some acoustic treatment.


I'd like advice on designing the system, and figuring out what type of subwoofers, and main high/mid speakers, plus receiver.

A receiver is probably not going to provide the reserve power that you are looking for. The space is very large. I would think a two channel, high powered "pro system" with perhaps a powered left and right speaker and a large 18" sub driven by a high powered amp. Working on the acoustics of the room is a separate issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I just purchases a Harman Kardon 120w Receiver, and two Cerwin-Vega! XLS-215's -- think that should produce some nice sound?


Also -- if you think it would be necessary to get an amp -- what kind, how many, etc?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19549275


I just purchases a Harman Kardon 120w Receiver, and two Cerwin-Vega! XLS-215's -- think that should produce some nice sound?


Also -- if you think it would be necessary to get an amp -- what kind, how many, etc?

The sound won't be that good with 120 watts available for those speakers. You need more head room for those large drivers to work. I own a pair of CLS-215's. I would recommend that you get a pro amp to run those. Its the most affordable way. Something with at least 300 watts to 500 watts per channel. Those large drivers will hardly work at lower volumes and forget about it at louder volumes without head room. There is another forum member that owns several pairs of CLS-215's. He may also chime in on this. No one powers these speakers with an AVR. They all use dedicated amps to power them. Including myself. There is a huge difference in sound between an AVR powering them and a dedicated amp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Alright. What amp (link, if possible) would you suggest I get to power them?


Would I need a dedicated amp per speaker, or would there be a way I can get an amp that will take the L and R input, and then have a L and R output?


Budget isn't much, since I already spend $1,200 on the speakers and AVR.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19549846


Alright. What amp (link, if possible) would you suggest I get to power them?


Would I need a dedicated amp per speaker, or would there be a way I can get an amp that will take the L and R input, and then have a L and R output?


Budget isn't much, since I already spend $1,200 on the speakers and AVR.

You need a 2 channel amp. Something like these. I would get the bigger one if it where me. I have used an amp similar to the EPQ2000 to power my CV's.

Check to make sure that your HK has pre outs. You must have them to use a dedicated amp.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/EPQ1200.aspx
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/EPQ2000.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks again for the input.


I was looking at the speakers.. and it says... "Power Capacity: 500 watts (Peak )"


Would that mean that I would need an amp that can push 500w peak per channel?


I'm pretty much blind when it comes to this.


Another think I'm not sure of is how to go about hooking it all up.


The AVR I have is the HK 120w receiver, which has output for speaker 1, speaker 2, and then a sub output... the sub output is for a powered sub or going to an amp, I suppose -- so with that being said, would I need to go from speaker1/speaker2 out of the HK into the speaker1/speaker2 input of the amp and leave the sub output of the HK out of the loop?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19549919


Thanks again for the input.


I was looking at the speakers.. and it says... "Power Capacity: 500 watts (Peak )"


Would that mean that I would need an amp that can push 500w peak per channel?


I'm pretty much blind when it comes to this.


Another think I'm not sure of is how to go about hooking it all up.


The AVR I have is the HK 120w receiver, which has output for speaker 1, speaker 2, and then a sub output... the sub output is for a powered sub or going to an amp, I suppose -- so with that being said, would I need to go from speaker1/speaker2 out of the HK into the speaker1/speaker2 input of the amp and leave the sub output of the HK out of the loop?

Having an amp that can at least put out the speakers peak rated power is a good idea. Especially with large speakers like these. You wont be using all the peak power much if ever. It is still good to have. It's called head room. Those speakers have very large drivers that use a lot of power at peaks at both lower and higher volumes. A receiver just cant deliver this. Your HK needs to have R&L pre outs. What HK did you get? I can look it up and see if you post the model of the receiver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/19549963


Having an amp that can at least put out the speakers peak rated power is a good idea. Especially with large speakers like these. You wont be using all the peak power much if ever. It is still good to have. It's called head room. Those speakers have very large drivers that use a lot of power at peaks at both lower and higher volumes. A receiver just cant deliver this. Your HK needs to have R&L pre outs. What HK did you get? I can look it up and see if you post the model of the receiver.

I got the HK 3490, which has 120w per channel...
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Pr...=HK%203490/230


Like I say, at this point I've gotten the AVR (above), and the two XLS-215's ( http://www.cerwinvega.com/home-audio...s/xls-215.html ). Don't have any of the wires, or connectors (really not sure what to get either), nor do I have an amp. If you can advise on the amp and connectors, that would be great.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19549982


I got the HK 3490, which has 120w per channel...
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Pr...=HK%203490/230


Like I say, at this point I've gotten the AVR (above), and the two XLS-215's ( http://www.cerwinvega.com/home-audio...s/xls-215.html ). Don't have any of the wires, or connectors (really not sure what to get either), nor do I have an amp. If you can advise on the amp and connectors, that would be great.

Your receiver looks like it does have pre outs in the diagram in the owners manual. It is #15 in the schematic of the rear of the receiver. You would use an RCA cable connected to the pre out on the rear of the receiver. You would then connect to either the TRS1/4 ins, or the XLR ins on the back of the pro amp. You can purchase pre made cables with RCA on one end and the appropriate TRS or XLR on the other end. Adaptors can also be used to make any RCA cable usable with a pro amp. Your speaker wire would be connected to the back of the pro amp via the binding post. Your would control the volume with your receiver. You would have to set the gains on the pro amp once. Usually set to max or at least 3/4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/19550077


Your receiver looks like it does have pre outs in the diagram in the owners manual. It is #15 in the schematic of the rear of the receiver. You would use an RCA cable connected to the pre out on the rear of the receiver. You would then connect to either the TRS1/4 ins, or the XLR ins on the back of the pro amp. You can purchase pre made cables with RCA on one end and the appropriate TRS or XLR on the other end. Adaptors can also be used to make any RCA cable usable with a pro amp. Your speaker wire would be connected to the back of the pro amp via the binding post. Your would control the volume with your receiver. You would have to set the gains on the pro amp once. Usually set to max or at least 3/4.

Alright, I was looking at the diagram also -- so the PreAmp out of the AVR will go to an amp via RCA... then from the amp to the speaker. I was looking and saw that there was a main in from the pre-amp on the AVR -- would it make any difference going from AVR PreAmp -> Amp -> AVR Main In > AVR Speaker Out -> CV XLS.


Also, would the amp that was suggested above be better than say a, CS-1800 amp?


Also, would there be any advantage to using the sub-out on the AVR? Or would it be better to just use pre-amp out on the AVR to the amp, and let the speaker separate the frequencies?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19550103


Alright, I was looking at the diagram also -- so the PreAmp out of the AVR will go to an amp via RCA... then from the amp to the speaker. I was looking and saw that there was a main in from the pre-amp on the AVR -- would it make any difference going from AVR PreAmp -> Amp -> AVR Main In > AVR Speaker Out -> CV XLS.


Also, would the amp that was suggested above be better than say a, CS-1800 amp?


Also, would there be any advantage to using the sub-out on the AVR? Or would it be better to just use pre-amp out on the AVR to the amp, and let the speaker separate the frequencies?

You need to use the pre out mains on the HK. Not the ins. The sub pre out is only for a subwoofer. The CV amps are alright. I have used a CV-2800 in the past. I have since switched to different amps for my mains. If I was looking for a pro amp again I would of purchased a Behringer or other pro amp. Possibly not the CV amp. When looking for a pro amp as well as any amp it should have a low THD value. Less distortion is better.

The receiver you purchased is a little limiting as far as inputs and it lacks bass management. It also lacks much adjustability for EQ adjustments. It is a nice receiver, but it's a little primative. Can you return it? There are AVR's a available with more inputs and functions for audio calibrating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/19550202


You need to use the pre out mains on the HK. Not the ins. The sub pre out is only for a subwoofer. The CV amps are alright. I have used a CV-2800 in the past. I have since switched to different amps for my mains. If I was looking for a pro amp again I would of purchased a Behringer or other pro amp. Possibly not the CV amp. When looking for a pro amp as well as any amp it should have a low THD value. Less distortion is better.

The receiver you purchased is a little limiting as far as inputs and it lacks bass management. It also lacks much adjustability for EQ adjustments. It is a nice receiver, but it's a little primative. Can you return it? There are AVR's a available with more inputs and functions for audio calibrating.

Im sure I can return the AVR -- just bought it, havent got it yet. It was for $295. IF you can advise of a better one in that price range, let me know!


So what is so different from the CV-1800 vs the EPQ2000? I looked for a comparison review, but didn't find one...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19550220


Im sure I can return the AVR -- just bought it, havent got it yet. It was for $295. IF you can advise of a better one in that price range, let me know!


So what is so different from the CV-1800 vs the EPQ2000? I looked for a comparison review, but didn't find one...

The EPQ2000 seems to have a lower distortion rating of .01. That seems to be across the board. It is also class H. It is also lighter because of this. The CV is rated differently. At half power it is rated at .01. But it's distortion increased more as it puts out more power. It is rated for .1% distortion at 1kz hz. It is also a class A/B amp so it will be heavier. The CV 2800 is even higher in distortion. That is the main reason I wouldn't use them. Low distortion does make a difference. I noticed the change in sound as soon as I stopped using my CV-2800 and started using amps with less distortion. I don't know of any other receivers in the $295 price range. I will post back if I come up with something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/19550314


The EPQ2000 seems to have a lower distortion rating of .01. That seems to be across the board. It is also class H. It is also lighter because of this. The CV is rated differently. At half power it is rated at .01. But it's distortion increased more as it puts out more power. It is rated for .1% distortion at 1kz hz. It is also a class A/B amp so it will be heavier. The CV 2800 is even higher in distortion. That is the main reason I wouldn't use them. Low distortion does make a difference. I noticed the change in sound as soon as I stopped using my CV-2800 and started using amps with less distortion. I don't know of any other receivers in the $295 price range. I will post back if I come up with something.

Thanks -- I think you've got me convinced on the EPQ2000, however.. I was reading something on the CV... apparently it was using input power of 220v @ 50hz...... I didn't see anything on the EPQ2000 -- can you confirm that it is 110v?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart209 /forum/post/19550325


Thanks -- I think you've got me convinced on the EPQ2000, however.. I was reading something on the CV... apparently it was using input power of 220v @ 50hz...... I didn't see anything on the EPQ2000 -- can you confirm that it is 110v?

According to the EPQ2000 manual it needs the standard 120v 60hz power. You can find this in the link I posted. You can download the manual for all their pro amps. I think the specs you read for the CV where for Europe. 220v 50hz is standard over there. My US spec CV amp uses standard 120v 60hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Good Deal. So you have a CV, and a Behringer? That make me feel better about the choice.


Alright, so below is what I've decided on from what we discussed...


- Harman Kardon 3490 120 Watt AVR

- Behringer EPQ2000 Amp (~500 Watts / Channel @ 6 Ohms)

- x2, Cerwin-Vega XLS-215's


That should be all for the equipment... next to figure out will be the connectors, etc.


Not sure if it would be better to just get this all, then go to radio shack and get the cables or figure out what I need now, and order online.


Also -- in terms of the 215's, they are floor-standing speakers, however I don't want to set them on the concrete floor, plus there will be a bench where they are going to be...


What do you think I should do...

1) Build a shelf to attach to the 6x6 post/wall to set them on

2) Find/Buy a bracket to mount them to the 6x6 post

3) Something else...


Thanks
 

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I own the CV amp. I don't own the EPQ2000. The EPQ series is popular with many people around here needing high power. Going to radio shack would be a good idea for cables. About as cheap as online and you can just drive there. Monoprice is another option if you order online. I think either of your mounting options would work. Just make sure it can hold a 120lb speaker. I agree with you about not setting the speakers directly on the concrete floor. They should at least have some sort of padding or platform under them to keep moisture away from the cabinets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/19550470


I own the CV amp. I don't own the EPQ2000. The EPQ series is popular with many people around here needing high power. Going to radio shack would be a good idea for cables. About as cheap as online and you can just drive there. Monoprice is another option if you order online. I think either of your mounting options would work. Just make sure it can hold a 120lb speaker. I agree with you about not setting the speakers directly on the concrete floor. They should at least have some sort of padding or platform under them to keep moisture away from the cabinets.

Cool.. yeah, 120lbs is pretty heavy... actually, thats a heavy ass speaker!
 

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Secret Squirrel has given the threadstarter very good advice. These XLS-215 speakers will not sound anywhere near their best being powered by a receiver. I tried going this route before and the mids and highs on these types of speakers were "faint" to say the least.


You will need a 300-500 watt amp to give these speakers the balanced, smooth sound they are capable of producing and not the stereotypical heavy bass, weak mid/high sound associated with previous model CV speakers which have traditionally been powered by low power receivers.


The CLSC, CLS, and XLS 215 speakers are a mix of traditional large home speakers and PA speakers. They are capable of producing very powerful low end and mid bass slam not associated with most of today's main stream speakers in their price range. Also their mids and highs have been redesigned to accept more power at higher sustained volume levels so the mids and highs are not drowned out by the low end like CV speakers in times past.


One whose heard these speakers could even argue that their mids and highs overpower their low end at higher volume settings which is certainly a departure from CV's past speaker lines. However as stated before you won't begin to hear the balanced, heavy sound these speakers can produce without the proper power.


If fan noise is not an issue get the Behringer EP-4000 or QSC GX-5. Both can be had for under $350. You will need XLR to RCA adapter cables for the EP 4000 however the GX 5 has RCA inputs.


If you want a quiet running amp with lower possible distortion then give the Behringer EPQ2000 a try. It also has RCA inputs so there would be no need for adapter cables when connecting it to your HK receiver.
 
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