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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings, all.


Gary Merson's review of the D'Ahlia appears in the latest issue (#38) of The Perfect Vision.


All in all, I thought it was somewhat positive, although he found some issues which I would have to have addressed to my satisfaction before I'd buy the set.


I don't want to give away the contents of the article, especially when it's so new, but I wonder if perhaps Gary could comment on whether any information has become available regarding the issues he mentioned in the article. The article did mention that he reviewed the set right after it was released, at JVC, and that some information he wanted wasn't available.


In particular, I'm interested in finding out whether the set can be ISF calibrated.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)


[This message has been edited by JustMike (edited 08-18-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by JustMike:

All in all, I thought it was somewhat positive, although he found some issues which I would have to have addressed to my satisfaction before I'd buy the set.


This doesn't sound like a rave review. I believe in letting these new technologies mature before diving in. The CRT still seems, IMHO, to be the best bet out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, you should really read the review. Like I said, I don't want to post the details here when it's a brand-new publication.


For me, the advantage of never having to worry about convergence or burn-in makes this type of technology a winner, and the lack of any moving parts is an advantage over DLP.


If I thought what Gary had written was a strongly negative review, or would preclude my buying it, I wouldn't even be looking for more information. But, what he raised were a number of issues mostly having to do with being able to adjust the set. That's what I'd like to know about -- since magazines have long lead times, I figured that there might have been further developments since he did the review.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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To the reader, formerly known as replaymike and others,


I am waiting for the answer to your questions. I expect to know early next week.


I do know that JVC says that the warranty will be voided if the set is adjusted by a person other than a JVC authorized servicer. No problem for me, since this is the exception rather than the rule for ISF calibration. I do not know if this set is adjusted by custom external software or internal registers. Regardless, JVC training would be required. The question I posed to JVC is whether they would have one of their servicers adjust a consumer's set to obtain white field uniformity, accurate gray scale, proper color decoder matrix, etc. under warranty. When I get the answer I will post it.



By the way, another ISF calibrator (who usually posts on another forum) has posted the following advice: Any person that gets their CRT based projector calibrated and optimized (by him) should LIE to the set maker about it, for fear revealing it was calibrated/optimized by this person may be reason to have the set's warranty voided.


I do not agree!


All the major manufacturers know that I calibrate/optimize sets and none has ever denied warranty service to any of my clients. In fact, companies have used my services (and other ISF calibrators) to calibrate and optimize their sets

for trade shows and special events.


I will respect and convey any position that JVC or any other manufacturer takes. I believe cooperation and honesty

will ultimately benefit the consumer, calibrator and the set maker.




[This message has been edited by Gary Merson (edited 08-19-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, Gary! I'll look forward very much to hearing what response you receive from JVC.


Thanks also for being up-front about the work you do on people's sets. I think JVC is making a mistake if they don't support ISF calibration, and certainly the ability to get a properly-adjusted picture is a pre-requisite for me before I would make a purchase. My fingers are crossed! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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Uh, what exactly is this D'Ahlia I keep hearing people talk about?


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..RM
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It's a JVC HDTV rear-projector. It uses a reflective element (similar in concept to the Texas Instruments DLP), but the element is liquid-crystal-on-silicon, with no moving parts. Also, rather than using a spinning color wheel, the element has 3x the number of pixels (one each for RGB), and there's a stationary holographic color filter that divides the incoming white light onto the correct pixels.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4209300


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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To carry it a step further . . . The D'Ahlia uses a small LCOS chip to provide the imaging (the picture) instead of a Cathode Ray Tube(s). This means light weight, small footprint, all digital system, and no burn-in or convergence problems (as there are with the old CRT sets). There are several other similar technologies appearing on the market, including RCA's LCOS set and Samsung's fLCD, both of which are much less expensive that the D'Ahlia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by M.Hat:
There are several other similar technologies appearing on the market, including RCA's LCOS set and Samsung's fLCD, both of which are much less expensive that the D'Ahlia.
I hadn't realized the fLCD was a reflective technology. Interesting.


The RCA LCOS is definitely less expensive than the D'Ahlia, even though it uses THREE LCOS chips and a prism for color separation. However, the only set they've announced is a 50", which is substantially smaller than the 61" D'Ahlia. Also, the D'Ahlia has a digital input (a DVI connector) in addition to the analog inputs. I don't believe the RCA does.


If anybody knows where to see the RCA LCOS in the SF Bay Area, I'd love to hear about it. Same goes for the Samsung.


[edit: Just read the fLCD specs on the Samsung site. I was surprised to see that they lose 50% of the light impinging upon their reflective panel. The D'Ahlia claims to reflect more than 90%. Perhaps they're calculating differently. Anyway, it's nice that the fLCD supports both 1080i and 720p input, and PC input]

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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)


[This message has been edited by JustMike (edited 08-19-2001).]
 

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Sorry to rain on this fine parade,


but before JVC's behind gets sore from our kisses for bringing the wonderful technology to masses, allow me

to remind us that this is the first commercially available

set with DVI input.


As such it deserves nothing but the Booos from avsforumers.


Gonna be cold day in hell before I buy one (not because I can not afford it).

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rashid11:
Sorry to rain on this fine parade,


but before JVC's behind gets sore from our kisses for bringing the wonderful technology to masses, allow me

to remind us that this is the first commercially available

set with DVI input.


As such it deserves nothing but the Booos from avsforumers.


Gonna be cold day in hell before I buy one (not because I can not afford it).
That's exactly what I was thinking.


Shawn
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Rashid, if you choose not to purchase a DVI/HDCP-equipped set, that's fine. But I don't think it's up to you to decide which products should be "booed" by the readership of this forum.


I see the DVI input as a positive factor for me to consider in purchasing the set, not a negative. I have explained my reasoning in great detail here . Not everybody on this forum shares your opinion that DVI is bad.


The strongest negative I can find for this set right now (besides its cost compared to the original announced price) is the uncertainty about whether it can be adjusted to produce a proper picture, as detailed in Gary's article. If that concern is answered satisfactorily, I'm buying one. If set-tops come along with DVI inputs, I'll be a happy camper. If not, I'll happily use the analog component inputs.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JustMike:
Not everybody on this forum shares your opinion that DVI is bad
Maybe not everybody, but certainly most of us do. You, my friend, are in a minuscule minority.


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I respect the opinions of those who disagree with me. I expect only the same in return.


I've read a lot of the postings on the subject here, and thus far I've seen nothing to persuade me that DVI is a bad idea. Nobody challenged any of the factual information in my postings on the other thread, and my analysis of those facts leads me to conclude that DVI is the best choice for a display connector among the current options.


Have any of the STB makers said that they would produce boxes with only DVI outputs? I've seen that claim made in other threads, but I've never seen anything to back it up. Everything I've found indicates that DVI is being considered as an *addition* to 1394 and analog outputs on STBs, at least for the next several generations of products.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:
You, my friend, are in a minuscule minority.
Utterly irrelevant Vic. Truth is that only a few weeks ago, STB manufacturers put their stamp of approval on DVI and it's only a matter of time (few years) before it prevails. Given a choice between buying a TV that's guranteed to be obsolete in a few years (i.e. any HDTV with component-only HD input, which is most on sale right now) or one which we know STB manufacturers have commited to, I'd go with DVI. We don't exactly have a choice in this matter. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the D'Ahlia (if it weren't for wanting to eat something other than twinkie bars for the next few years).



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Quote:
Truth is that only a few weeks ago, STB manufacturers put their stamp of approval on DVI and it's only a matter of time (few years) before it prevails.
Huh?

JVC is the only display/projector mfgr that has aligned themselves with DVI. Mitsubishi is on record as stating they will not market any devices with DVI connectors. No other display/projector mfgrs have announced they will include a DVI connector. The STB mfgrs can include a DVI connector but if the display folks don't put DVI inputs on their stuff then DVI is going nowhere in the HT world.


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Geof
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Geof:
Mitsubishi is on record as stating they will not market any devices with DVI connectors.
I apologize, I must have missed that statement. Please could you point me to the statement that Mitsubishi will never "market any devices with DVI connectors". I only thought I saw one in which the US head of HDTV marketing for Mits argued against it.



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This HDTV also has two sets of component HDTV inputs as well as DVI. However, it does not have IEEE1394. I got this from the JVC website.


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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yup, that's correct. DVI and component inputs. That makes perfect sense to me. For a whole host of reasons, I think 1394 is a rotten choice as a display connector (although I think it's a very good connector for recording and the like).


I also agree with Geof -- if the display makers don't support DVI, then it will go nowhere. The flip side is true, too, though. If the STB makers don't support 1394 for the display connection, it will also go nowhere.


I believe that, to date, Mitsubishi is the only display maker to have anybody in the organization say on record that they won't do DVI, although I'm with HiDefGuy in questioning whether that was really the final word from Mitsubishi corporate on the subject.


Personally, I'm baffled by that statement from Mitsubishi on DVI. The marketing types seem to be spinning it as a recording-rights issue, which is just nonsense. It's only a recording-rights issue if DVI is the only connector on the STB. E* and Cable Labs both said they'd do both DVI and 1394 in the big press release, and while D* didn't say as much, I expect they will also.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)


[This message has been edited by JustMike (edited 08-19-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by HiDefGuy:
We don't exactly have a choice in this matter
See, that's where you're wrong. No one is forced to do anything. We don't HAVE to buy into this. We make our choice with our dollars. And if we don't buy it, it will fail.


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 
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