General Speaker Placement Recommendations
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Here are 3 very good methods for speaker placement to try. I found the Cardas method to be the best for my particular room and speakers. Different rooms and different speakers all react diferently.
1)Third placement.
It is a simple formula. The speakers are placed 1/3 of the length of the
room from the wall behind them and 1/3 the width of the room from the walls along side them. The listening position is then placed 1/3 the length of the room from the wall behind it. This placement reduces speaker interaction with the room to an absolute minimum. The obvious problem is space and aesthetics. Works well if you
have a dedicated listening room or HT.
2)The Vandersteen Method.
This second formula is a little more complex but, doesn't require such a sacrifice in room function and aesthetics. It is for a typical rectangular room. Measure the length of your room and convert it to inches. Now divide that by several odd numbers. I would suggest dividing by 3,5,7, 9. That should be enough. Now take a piece of note book paper or graph paper and put it down in front of you so that it is horizontal, letting the right edge represent the wall behind your speakers. Now draw a vertical line for each result of the division. (ex., say your room is 216 inches. 216/3=72, this line would be furthest away from the right side and marked 72". 216/9=24, this line would be closest to the right side of the paper and marked 24. The other lines would be between these line and marked with their results). Now do the same measurement and division with the width of the room. Now this time your lines will be horizontal. For each result you draw two lines, one away from the imaginary left wall(top of the paper) and one away from the imaginary right wall (bottom of the paper). Mark each line with the result of the division. Each place a horizontal and vertical line intersect is a optimum spot for minimal room interaction. This gives you many options for your room.
3)Golden Ratio (The George Cardas method).
Still using your room dimensions in inches try using the following method. Place speakers using the distance from the center of the woofer face to the side wall as your measurement. The side wall node closest to the speaker is the most important, followed by the rear wall, and then the opposite side wall.
RW= Room Width
Speaker distance to side wall= RWx.276
Speaker distance to rear wall= RWx.447
Speaker distance to opposite side wall= RWx.724
Speaker to speaker= RWx.447
Speaker distance to listener= (speaker to speaker)x1.1 or 1.25
A variation is; Ceiling Height (CH)x.618 for the speaker to side wall measurement.
The "formulas" only represent a starting point. You may have to move the speakers and inch or two after the initial placement due to windows, furniture, door openings, and other things that can interfer with the sound.
If properly placed your speakers should need little if any toe-in. In general you toe-in your speakers to eliminate some of the wall reflection that occurs when you have to place them in a corner or back up against a wall.
Here are 3 very good methods for speaker placement to try. I found the Cardas method to be the best for my particular room and speakers. Different rooms and different speakers all react diferently.
1)Third placement.
It is a simple formula. The speakers are placed 1/3 of the length of the
room from the wall behind them and 1/3 the width of the room from the walls along side them. The listening position is then placed 1/3 the length of the room from the wall behind it. This placement reduces speaker interaction with the room to an absolute minimum. The obvious problem is space and aesthetics. Works well if you
have a dedicated listening room or HT.
2)The Vandersteen Method.
This second formula is a little more complex but, doesn't require such a sacrifice in room function and aesthetics. It is for a typical rectangular room. Measure the length of your room and convert it to inches. Now divide that by several odd numbers. I would suggest dividing by 3,5,7, 9. That should be enough. Now take a piece of note book paper or graph paper and put it down in front of you so that it is horizontal, letting the right edge represent the wall behind your speakers. Now draw a vertical line for each result of the division. (ex., say your room is 216 inches. 216/3=72, this line would be furthest away from the right side and marked 72". 216/9=24, this line would be closest to the right side of the paper and marked 24. The other lines would be between these line and marked with their results). Now do the same measurement and division with the width of the room. Now this time your lines will be horizontal. For each result you draw two lines, one away from the imaginary left wall(top of the paper) and one away from the imaginary right wall (bottom of the paper). Mark each line with the result of the division. Each place a horizontal and vertical line intersect is a optimum spot for minimal room interaction. This gives you many options for your room.
3)Golden Ratio (The George Cardas method).
Still using your room dimensions in inches try using the following method. Place speakers using the distance from the center of the woofer face to the side wall as your measurement. The side wall node closest to the speaker is the most important, followed by the rear wall, and then the opposite side wall.
RW= Room Width
Speaker distance to side wall= RWx.276
Speaker distance to rear wall= RWx.447
Speaker distance to opposite side wall= RWx.724
Speaker to speaker= RWx.447
Speaker distance to listener= (speaker to speaker)x1.1 or 1.25
A variation is; Ceiling Height (CH)x.618 for the speaker to side wall measurement.
The "formulas" only represent a starting point. You may have to move the speakers and inch or two after the initial placement due to windows, furniture, door openings, and other things that can interfer with the sound.
If properly placed your speakers should need little if any toe-in. In general you toe-in your speakers to eliminate some of the wall reflection that occurs when you have to place them in a corner or back up against a wall.
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Bob,
Just as matter of interest, how do you have your Gallo Refs positioned. In the manual Gallo say to use to use a Rule of Fourths instead of thirds. I'm still playing with mine and I'd be interested in what you've done.
Steve
Just as matter of interest, how do you have your Gallo Refs positioned. In the manual Gallo say to use to use a Rule of Fourths instead of thirds. I'm still playing with mine and I'd be interested in what you've done.
Steve
Steve,
After alot of playing around with speaker positioning, and room treatment, I found that in my room the best placement was using the Cardas method. This is just a starting point, then I started moving them in small increaments. The front center of the speakers ended up 6'2" from the back wall, 4'9" from the side wall, 10'2" from speaker to speaker center, and 10'8" from the center listening position. Your room is different than mine, in that you have an open area on the left and glass/curtains on the right so, you will have to experiment. One good thing about the Gallos is that they are so light moving them about is pretty effortless. I would think that your room could use some bookshelves in each corner of the wall in front of your couch. Also, I found that a slight, and I emphasize slight, towing in was my preference.
Something you might try is weighting down the base of your speakers once you have found the best position. I loaded up each base with 60 lbs. of shot and it made a wonderful improvement in the sound. Of course, it was easier for me because I have the covered model. You could try laying something heavy over the your bases just as an experiment.
After alot of playing around with speaker positioning, and room treatment, I found that in my room the best placement was using the Cardas method. This is just a starting point, then I started moving them in small increaments. The front center of the speakers ended up 6'2" from the back wall, 4'9" from the side wall, 10'2" from speaker to speaker center, and 10'8" from the center listening position. Your room is different than mine, in that you have an open area on the left and glass/curtains on the right so, you will have to experiment. One good thing about the Gallos is that they are so light moving them about is pretty effortless. I would think that your room could use some bookshelves in each corner of the wall in front of your couch. Also, I found that a slight, and I emphasize slight, towing in was my preference.
Something you might try is weighting down the base of your speakers once you have found the best position. I loaded up each base with 60 lbs. of shot and it made a wonderful improvement in the sound. Of course, it was easier for me because I have the covered model. You could try laying something heavy over the your bases just as an experiment.
A tip for getting a uniform toe in. If you have a laser pointer, set a object centered at the listening position. Something flat like a large sheet of cardboard is ideal, but the listening chair itself might work fine. Use the laser dot to match the angle of the tweeters. If your box is rectangular you can use the top, or inner edge to aline the laser pointer. Then just set the distance of the dot thrown from the left and right speakers in opposite and equal distance from the centerline.
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I've done some measuring and as it turns out where I have the speakers was within a few inches of the rule of fourths, 65" out, 60" in from the side, 107" apart, 145" to ears and 65" from back wall.
Bringing them out to 50% and sitting on the rear wall wouldn't go down well with my wife, not to mention making it rather hard to place my rear and side speakers.
Bob, since you were here there is more furniture in the room, including stuff in both front corners. You must be psychic http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif .
Thanks to all for some interesting tips. I also have the RPG Optimizer program so I'll be curious where that suggests, although a room as irregular as mine won't make it too accurate.
Steve
Bringing them out to 50% and sitting on the rear wall wouldn't go down well with my wife, not to mention making it rather hard to place my rear and side speakers.
Bob, since you were here there is more furniture in the room, including stuff in both front corners. You must be psychic http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif .
Thanks to all for some interesting tips. I also have the RPG Optimizer program so I'll be curious where that suggests, although a room as irregular as mine won't make it too accurate.
Steve
APM,
You are absolutly correct about Gallo's recommendation regarding the "rule of fourths". I didn't mention it because I didn't think it relevant since few people in this forum are using Gallo speakers. In fact, my placement of the Gallo's just happens to be 1/4 in from the side walls as recommended. However, bringing them into the room 1/3 of the distance and having the seating into the room 1/3 doesn't work for my HT. It puts the seating to close to my TV. So, I have found that the Cardas method was a good compermise, and in fact, sounded better to boot. All speaker placement recommendations are only starting points. Every room has it's own characteristics, plus, most people also have to make compromises when using a room for both music and movies.
You are absolutly correct about Gallo's recommendation regarding the "rule of fourths". I didn't mention it because I didn't think it relevant since few people in this forum are using Gallo speakers. In fact, my placement of the Gallo's just happens to be 1/4 in from the side walls as recommended. However, bringing them into the room 1/3 of the distance and having the seating into the room 1/3 doesn't work for my HT. It puts the seating to close to my TV. So, I have found that the Cardas method was a good compermise, and in fact, sounded better to boot. All speaker placement recommendations are only starting points. Every room has it's own characteristics, plus, most people also have to make compromises when using a room for both music and movies.
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