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Discussion Starter #1
Hi

I've been loving the image via component from my Pioneer 868i(AV59i), to the Marantz S3.

Well this morning my HDMI/DVI leads and Gefen switcher arrived.


Almost salivating, i connected it all up.


1m Better Cables Display Magic HDMI to DVI-D


Gefen 4x1 DVI switcher


9m Better Cables Display Magic DVI-D to DVI-D


The above combination works flawlessly, with zero sparklies etc.


But this is where i'm at a loss!


The image via component seems a little more detailed, and more contrasty and saturated.

Checking via Avia actually shows the DVI input to be the cleaner signal, but the component just seems nicer.


I suppose i'm mixing up my "DVI PC" or "DVI Video" levels.


I did have my DVD set to 1280x720p with the video set to "standard".

The Marantz S3 set to DVI-RGB, and the DVI black level set to "Normal".

This combination left the image drained of colour.


So i then set the DVD to HDMI "Enhanced Colour".

This had the effect of restoring colour levels, but the image went darker. I had to put brightness from -50- to -60- to get shadow detail back.


I restored brightness to -50-, and tried the S3 DVI black level to expand. This restored shadow detail, but reduced colour slightly.


So as you can guess, i'm getting myself in a right muddle here!

I assumed DVI would be straight forward as in theory there should be less to get wrong!

Yet the image via component "up to now" pleases me more than HDMI/DVI.:confused:


Please someone take pity, and educate me as to which settings i need in:-


Pioneer AV59i(868i)via HDMI to DVI cable. Which settings?

Marantz S3 DVI input.. which settings?
 

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Hi Paul,


For what its worth I have outlined my findings thus far using this combination that may be off use. FYI my room is light controlled, blacks and dark grey walls, dark grey ceiling, black carpet. My screen is Matte White with a 1.2 Gain. For reference I am using Digital Video Essentials, not Avia which I also have, and doing a little experimentation this morning it appears that results do differ between the two, namely with regard to saturation ??.


I am using the 868AVi's Direct setting for HDMI and the Professional setting for Component. All tweaking/adjustments I have done on the S3. leaving the source as I have stated.


I have calibrated the S3 for 'Normal' black level, as opposed to ‘Expand’. Colour temperature 3. My Gamma is now set to 'B' for both HDMI and Component inputs. Interestingly, my findings for Saturation differ from yours, using the settings as outlined above and appropriate test pattern it appears that everything is ‘spot on’ when using HDMI, however via Component it appears that colours are ‘over saturated’, hence in order to correct for this I dropped saturation in the S3 to 50. This then makes everything appear correct in the test pattern.


A couple of observations, firstly IMO scaling is better off being done by the S3, as opposed to the 868AVi as the latter does seem to introduce unwanted artifacts when scaling. A good way to show this can be found by using the Pluge Test on Digital Video Essentials - fist pattern Chapter 12 (PAL or NTSC versions will show the same thing).


On this test if you set the HDMI to output SD progressive (either 480/576p depending on your version) and then calibrate as you would so that the blacker than black bar disappears into the background, and you can just see the other two bars.


Now set the HDMI to output 1280x720, if you have the same results as I you should notice that the blacker than black bars outline is now visable, you cannot correct for this as when doing so means reducing brightness to such an extent that practically none of the bars are visable. Hence all I can deduce is this outline is something thats been created by the 868AVi when it is scaling....


The other thing I have found is to drop 'sharpness' from what the S3 defaults to, using picture resolution feilds from DVE you can see that unwanted ringing exists on both Component and HDMI. For HDMI (DVI input to S3) I have set 'sharpness filter' in the fine menu to zero (defaults at two) and component sharpness to 3 (defaults at seven).


I have also noticed that’s using component does crop pixels, so you loose about 2 % of intended picture from each axis, which may or may not bother you.


I hope some that is of use. From what I have seen the difference between inputs, DVI and Component is very minimal and I to do prefer component on some sources, though this varies. IMHO it emphasizes the quality of the conversion going on in the Marantz that so little practical differences exist between the two. On a seperate note, I am still awaiting a resolution to my HTPC via DVI into the S3 as I feel this would be another interesting possibility to try.
 

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Another thing that I remember reading on this Forum that may explain what were seeing on the component inputs is that apparently they have been optimised for DVD on the S3.


As far as I remember this means that they go through another stage of Faroudja processing, which optimises them for DVD viewing - generating much more detail (however softens the image when fed HD content via component, where DVI is a better option).


I have done some searching and found this regarding the S2, not sure if its equally applicable to the S3, though perhaps another thing to bear in mind as results from a component feed do indeed seem more detailed :-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...65#post2084265
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think component looked more detailed due to the slight "EE" added by it's sharpness setting.

Using Avia, DVI shows the resolution patterns to be perfect even at the highest frequencies, with zero "EE" or any ringing etc.

Component, although very clear, still shows some slight "EE" or ringing and the resolution bars are a little smudgy at the high frequencies.


I think i just expected DVI to need no adjustment like component.

All i needed to do was turn down the brightness, and setting the DVD players black to "Direct", and the S3s black to "Normal".


I found after some extended viewing, it was like the first time you turn down sharpness on a TV. At first it can look a little softer, but before long you realise how much more detail there is etc.


tbar, have you got the option of 24 bit colour on your Radeon 9600?

I just noticed a can only choose 16 or 32 bit only? (no 24 bit option)
 

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Fulabeer, Ive just checked and no I havn't got the option for 24Bit colour, like you I have either 16Bit or 32Bit. Mmm ..... :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mmm indeed!


I was wondering if it is incorrectly converting 32 bit to 24 bit to output via DVI etc. This may be the cause of the banding etc.


I might see if i can get hold of a 9700/9800 and see if this makes any difference.
 

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Well spotted ! - I think thats a very good idea.


I know that Dan Miller said he was using a 9700, so if hes reading this perhaps he could let us know how his card is set, i.e. 24 (if option is there on 9700) or 32 Bit ? - save the hassle of getting a new card unless need to..
 

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Hi guys, do either of you have problems with the Gefen DVI switcher and your Marantz S3's? I have an S3 and am planning to get the Gefen. I heard there may be some glitches. Is the remote turning out to be as big a problem on the Gefen as mentioned in posts? Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
As far as picture/signal quality, the Gefen is great.

It has switched inputs three times while i was flicking between DVI and component on my S3.(doing A/B comparisons)

It hasn't done it while i've been watching a film etc.


I would have been upset if it corrupted the image or something like that etc.


I'm just going to wait for the fix in March, as it's not really a big problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
tbrar

The banding issue via DVI from the HTPC is nothing to do with the S3!


After i had formatted the HTPC, i reloaded the Radeon drivers for the 9600pro.

As soon as the Radeon drivers booted, i lost the DVI signal.

Switching over to VGA(RGBHV), i managed to use powerstrip to set [email protected]

This setting is the only one the S3 will lock to via DVI.

I'm going to move the HTPC closer and see if it's a cable length issue with EDID etc.


Anyway, i could see the banding was still there and was getting pretty fed up!

It was during the process of putting all the screensavers back on, that i came across a clue to what's happening.

After putting on a fishtank screen saver, a did a quick preview to check everything was ok. And low and behold, no banding!:eek:

Checking the settings, a realised that the screen saver defaults to 16 bit.

I set it to 32 bits, and the banding returned.


So since the banding can be eliminated, it can't be the S3s DVI input etc.


This does leave a problem with the Radeon drivers though.

Setting windows to 16bit isn't good, and the banding is still there in the windows screens(even at 16 bit).

Why can't i select normal windows resolutions 800x600/1024x768 @60hz etc?

If i can't use anything other than [email protected], it will simply go blank if any program uses another resolution.
 

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adidadi,


I have the Gefen HDTV 2x1 DVI switcher and it has randomly switched by itself. Other than that , it passes HDCP fine.
 
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