[vinodk]

Hi Guys!

I currently have 16:9 screen but don't mind the black bars with 2.35 aspect ratio movies. Only thing that bothers me is the resolution I am losing with HD-DVD & Bluray when displayed in 2.35:1 aspect ratio on a 16:9 screen. Is there a way to sqeeze that full resolution from HD media on 16:9 screen but in that 2.35:1 window? I don't want to go through the expense of a 2.35:1 screen & the anamorphic lens at this time & don't mind the black bars. I am using Runco RS1100 & do have DVDO VP50 processor if that will help.

Thanks,

 

[Josh Z]

If you have a 1080p screen, you're not actually losing any resolution currently. All HD media is encoded in 16:9 aspect ratio at 1920x1080 resolution. Movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios only use approximately 1920x800 of those pixels in the active movie image, with the rest going to the letterbox bars.


People with 2.35:1 screens either zoom the picture so that the letterbox bars fall off the screen (still only using 1920x800 for the movie) or add an anamophic lens and scale the movie image to 1920x1080. In that case, the extra pixels are interpolated, not real resolution.

 

[vinodk]

Hi Josh!

I essence what you are saying is that a movie shot in 2.35:1 aspect has only 1920x800 resolution to begin with therefore I am not losing any resolution with the black bars.

 

[Scott Wallace]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/14178886


If you have a 1080p screen, you're not actually losing any resolution currently. All HD media is encoded in 16:9 aspect ratio at 1920x1080 resolution. Movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios only use approximately 1920x800 of those pixels in the active movie image, with the rest going to the letterbox bars.


People with 2.35:1 screens either zoom the picture so that the letterbox bars fall off the screen (still only using 1920x800 for the movie) or add an anamophic lens and scale the movie image to 1920x1080. In that case, the extra pixels are interpolated, not real resolution.

It's not interpolated per se. Granted the 1080 pixels were not originally part of the 2:35 image area. But since you are stretching the image vertically to get the 2:35 image area to fill the imaging chip then stretching back horizontally by way of a lens you are not technically interpolating (ie - making an educated 'guess' as to what would be in between the real information).

 

[Josh Z]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk /forum/post/14179072


I essence what you are saying is that a movie shot in 2.35:1 aspect has only 1920x800 resolution to begin with therefore I am not losing any resolution with the black bars.

For home theater purposes, yes. It will only have 1920x800 resolution on the HD master. Don't confuse that with how the movie was shot. Most movies are shot on 35mm film, which has much higher potential resolution than HD video is capable of capturing.

 

[Josh Z]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace /forum/post/14184796


It's not interpolated per se. Granted the 1080 pixels were not originally part of the 2:35 image area. But since you are stretching the image vertically to get the 2:35 image area to fill the imaging chip then stretching back horizontally by way of a lens you are not technically interpolating (ie - making an educated 'guess' as to what would be in between the real information).

Yes, those pixels are interpolated. How else do you think the scaler "stretches" the 2.35:1 image to fill the vertical portion of the 16:9 panel? It stretches it by interpolating new pixels.

 

[ca1ore]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk /forum/post/14178838


Hi Guys!

I currently have 16:9 screen but don't mind the black bars with 2.35 aspect ratio movies. Only thing that bothers me is the resolution I am losing with HD-DVD & Bluray when displayed in 2.35:1 aspect ratio on a 16:9 screen. Is there a way to sqeeze that full resolution from HD media on 16:9 screen but in that 2.35:1 window? I don't want to go through the expense of a 2.35:1 screen & the anamorphic lens at this time & don't mind the black bars. I am using Runco RS1100 & do have DVDO VP50 processor if that will help.

Thanks,

Unfortunately not! Some 250-300 lines of native resolution are 'lost' to the black bars and short of anamorphic encoding of 2.35:1 films on BluRay, there is no way to recover them. Even moving to a CIH setup just expands the 2.35:1 window to utilize the entire screen and full pixel complement of your projector - it does not restore the lost resolution from the source disc. CIH is well worth doing for light levels and cinematic impact, but it does not enhance resolution.

 

[GoCaboNow]

I have some old dvd's where you pick widescreen or full screen in the start up menu. I would love to see something like that for bluray, or whatever, going forward - especially as BD capacity grows. Just pick your AR and enjoy the movie.

 

[Josh Z]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow /forum/post/14191695


I have some old dvd's where you pick widescreen or full screen in the start up menu. I would love to see something like that for bluray, or whatever, going forward - especially as BD capacity grows. Just pick your AR and enjoy the movie.

Movies are composed for one and only one aspect ratio. There is no need to provide multiple aspect ratios for the same movie. You might as well ask that they provide you with a "blue" version and a "green" version of every movie, because you like the movies you watch to be tinted, no matter what they're really supposed to look like.

 

[MarkH]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/14192817


Movies are composed for one and only one aspect ratio. There is no need to provide multiple aspect ratios for the same movie. You might as well ask that they provide you with a "blue" version and a "green" version of every movie, because you like the movies you watch to be tinted, no matter what they're really supposed to look like.

Sme people here are just asking questions Josh - no need to appear harsh or condescending.

 

[wse]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/14178886


If you have a 1080p screen, you're not actually losing any resolution currently. All HD media is encoded in 16:9 aspect ratio at 1920x1080 resolution. Movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios only use approximately 1920x800 of those pixels in the active movie image, with the rest going to the letterbox bars.

Interesting I had read that with anamorphic lenses you regain all your pixels!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/14178886


People with 2.35:1 screens either zoom the picture so that the letterbox bars fall off the screen (still only using 1920x800 for the movie) or add an anamorphic lens and scale the movie image to 1920x1080. In that case, the extra pixels are interpolated, not real resolution.

I use the zoom on my JVC RS-2 so my pixel stay square rather than becoming rectangular shaped!

 

[Josh Z]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wse /forum/post/14193777


Interesting I had read that with anamorphic lenses you regain all your pixels!!

"Regain" isn't the right word. Using an anamorphic lens allows you to use the entire projector's pixel panel, which will increase brightness and reduce individual pixel visibility. But you're not reclaiming resolution otherwise missing. On a 2.35:1 movie, the source is only encoded with 1920x800 resolution for the active movie content portion of the frame.

 

[blabus]

My questions is, say I had a 2.35 screen and simply zoomed the picture from my projector to fill the screen, with the top and bottom black bars just falling off the screen onto black felt or whatever. Heard this works fine.


But, what happens if I run across a movie that is 16:9. Then the top and bottom of my picture is hanging off the screen.


So, with this setup, essentially I'd have to look on the back of every DVD case, find the aspect ratio, and then, if necessary, manually change the zoom on my projector?


Is there a better solution (that doesn't involve external anamorphic lenses)?

 

[5mark]

Welcome to the forum. You've perfectly described the "zoom method", which can work great, but can also be inconvenient depending on the setup. Check out this thread for a discussion on the "shrink method", which uses a scaler to fit a 16:9 movie on a 2.35:1 screen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1022306

 

[AlexBen]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/14194827


"Regain" isn't the right word. Using an anamorphic lens allows you to use the entire projector's pixel panel, which will increase brightness and reduce individual pixel visibility. But you're not reclaiming resolution otherwise missing. On a 2.35:1 movie, the source is only encoded with 1920x800 resolution for the active movie content portion of the frame.

I think technically whether or not you reduce pixel visibility depends on how greedy you are with your NEW screen width and height. If you adjust the zoom to a new position, and use a 2.35 screen that is shorter than your prior 16:9 screen, then yes, the pixels may be "shorter"... but...


Any HE at all beyond the original width in 16:9 will widen the pixels.... visibily I'm sure if you go wide enough on the new screen.


There is probably a very individual cut-off of tolerance where the CA and stretching of the pixels width-wise becomes noticeable.......and the people that see it either go smaller..or spend more for a mulit-prism solution.


Alex.

 

[D_B_0673]

for a 16x9 screen you need a vertical compression lens

 

[blabus]

I've got another solution. After looking at the anamorphic lenses that slide over the projector lens, I've seen they are so expensive! A cheaper solution would be to just buy 2 Sanyo (or whatever brand, the $1500 Sanyo has excellent picture quality) projectors, and mount one above the shelf on the wall and one hanging underneath. Split the DVD signal to both projectors, but have one zoomed to fit 16:9 on the screen and one zoomed for 2.35:1. Then, on your universal remote, just have two buttons- Watch in 2.35:1 and Watch in 16:9. Whichever one you push, the remote turns that projector on.

 

[Josh Z]



Quote:
Originally Posted by blabus /forum/post/14334801


I've got another solution. After looking at the anamorphic lenses that slide over the projector lens, I've seen they are so expensive! A cheaper solution would be to just buy 2 Sanyo (or whatever brand, the $1500 Sanyo has excellent picture quality) projectors, and mount one above the shelf on the wall and one hanging underneath. Split the DVD signal to both projectors, but have one zoomed to fit 16:9 on the screen and one zoomed for 2.35:1. Then, on your universal remote, just have two buttons- Watch in 2.35:1 and Watch in 16:9. Whichever one you push, the remote turns that projector on.

A nice thought, but if you have two identical projectors, your remote won't be able to distinguish between them. When it sends the signal to turn one on, both will turn on.

 

[blabus]

Unless I have an RF remote (like the MX3000) and have separate IR flashers on each projector. Then, I can just send the command to one flasher or the other.

 

[shamus]



Quote:
Originally Posted by blabus /forum/post/14336202


Unless I have an RF remote (like the MX3000) and have separate IR flashers on each projector. Then, I can just send the command to one flasher or the other.

Check out this thread for another possible solution...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1022306