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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering if the ghosting is caused by the TV itself (is that possible?) or by the component cables (480p, but still analog of course) from my Xbox? I've been able to eliminate a good deal of the ghosting through service mode, doing some pretty basic tweaks. Still, it's noticable in certain situations when you know what you're looking at. So, is the ghosting the TV or the cables?


I'm also having a problem with the built-in speakers causing some magnitization over time, but now I have my TV unplugged for a full deguass, is this something I need serviced?


Thanks in advance.
 

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can you see ghosting on fast motions scenes other then thge xbox? I seem to recall someone commenting on CC or CNet that they thost the TV ghosted a litle on hort movements, but I'm going by a vague memory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Actually I'm not sure the correct term for it... It's sort of an afterimage you can see slightly to the right (a few pixels), and it is mostly associated with still images. That's the only place I can really notice... Where there's a lot of contrast, light blue on black, for example.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigen
Actually I'm not sure the correct term for it... It's sort of an afterimage you can see slightly to the right (a few pixels), and it is mostly associated with still images. That's the only place I can really notice... Where there's a lot of contrast, light blue on black, for example.
Yours also? I had the same thing that happenned to the sides. It seems thata lot of HS420 have this problem.

I corrected mine by reducing the size of the screen in the service menu (HSIZ). It doesn't show up anymore. But when I had that, it was annoying as hell.
 

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Jigen and MaxDam77, what size HS420 are you guys talking about? 34"? 36"? MaxDam77, how much did you reduce the screen size to?
 

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Bumping this. I have the HS420 and notice ghosting. How do you correct this? My settings are pro, no clear edge, and everything is set at the middle for the most part. During dark scenes, the images remain for 1-2 seconds. I can't seem to find a definitive answer online anywhere that will fix this problem. Someone on this board said it will go away after it's been broken in for a few months. Is this true?


I watched The Matrix and Flightplan on dvd using Monster component cables. The ghosting was pretty bad in both of those. I can't say I've noticed ghosting watch HD cable. I'll look tonight to see if I notice it. If not, then is it the component cables causing it? I wonder if getting an upconvert player using HDMI would fix this?
 

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It sounds like there are at least two different issues being discussed here.

Overshoot


The "ringing" or "ghosting" you'll see to the right of sharp edges on static (or moving) images is most likely caused by overshoot, which I believe is an issue inherent to the analog electronics of cathode ray tubes. (Though it's certainly possible that feedthru/cabling/shielding/power/etc. issues could contribute to the problem as well.) If your game has an anti-aliasing option, make sure that's turned on, because it's the razor sharp (primarily vertical) edges on game graphics with no anti-aliasing that will make this issue most apparent.


There may be some things you can do to fine tune edge-filtering to diminish this a bit in the SM. But it's unlikely you'll be able to eliminate it completely from sharp edges with no AA at all. Turning VM off may or may not help as well. Lowering Sharpness should help, but that will of course mean sacrificing some detail/clarity in the image as well. This is one of the tradeoffs you get with CRTs, which really weren't designed with the such sharp graphics in mind.


Overshoot can look similar to edge-enhancement btw, but these are really two separate issues. Edge-enhancement is an effect applied in the video source to bump-up detail, while overshoot may originate in the mechanics of the CRT itself.


Overshoot is also different than overscan (which is a completely different topic).

Phosphor lag/persistence


If you see an "after image" or "trails" following bright images or moving highlights on the screen, that's caused by phosphor lag/persistence. Not all phosphors are created equal. Some kinds of phosphors (such as the type you would find on high-refresh PC monitors) fade to black faster than others. Sony seems to use relatively slower-fading, higher-persistence phosphors on many of it's TVs to help boost their brightness, which is why I don't generally recommend them for gaming.


There is some "circumstantial evidence" to suggest that this issue might diminish a bit as the TV breaks-in. It's hard to know if it's the phosphors themselves changing though, or simply viewers getting more accustomed to the effect. If there is any actual reduction though, it certainly won't eliminate the problem because of the type of phosphors that are probably involved. The effect will be most noticeable however when viewing in total darkness, so your best defense against it is simply to turn a couple lights on in the room (which is probably better for your eyes anyway). Adjusting gamma on the games or DVD player may help some as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
If not, then is it the component cables causing it? I wonder if getting an upconvert player using HDMI would fix this?
Using a different cable or input might possibly have an effect on the overshoot, since the edge-filtering in the TV differs a bit depending on the type of signal. But probably will not have any effect on the phosphor lag, which seems to be your main concern.


FWIW, DVI probably exacerbates the overshoot a bit on my 34XBR800, because the signal is so clear and razor-sharp. YMMV.
 

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My problem is definitely the phosphor lag. I see this lag mainly with dvds. I've changed my tv settings several times, but haven't gotten a good combination to help to eliminate it. I hope breaking the tv in helps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I see this lag mainly with dvds.... I can't say I've noticed ghosting watch HD cable.
The phosphor persistence could possibly be a bit less noticeable with 1080i because it's interlaced. If your HS420 has an "Interlaced" option for 480i up-conversion among it's Advanced or DRC video settings in the User Menu, you might try switching your DVD player to 480i and using that instead, because it should up-convert the 480i to 960i instead of 480p. May not do as good a job of de-interlacing film-based content as Cinemotion (which reverse telecines to 480p), or 480p from your player though. Another option might be a good* up-converting player (*many HDMI players actually seem to do a rather poor job up-converting to 1080i), or an HTPC via 1080i.


FWIW, I've had my 34XBR800 for at least 3 years and it still has the same persistence issues as when I bought it (though it was purchased used). If this issue bothers you, the Panasonics or possibly some other brands might be worth a look. Panasonic seemed to use faster phosphors on their HD tubes. That might mean a bit more noticeable flicker, and they may possibly have a little more of the other kind of ghosting (ie overshoot), etc.
 

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you will get used to the phospor lag. i noticed it for awhile when i first got my set. but if you just play the game or watch the movie you wont notice it too much. only when im actually looking for it is when it bothers me.
 

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My eyes never adjusted to the phosphor persistence and a couple other issues (antiglare coating, Trinitron grill) on the 34XBR800. Consequently I didn't really get the use out of the TV that I hoped.


It's also possible that some of the picture modes may be a little more forgiving to this issue (and your eyes) than others. Pro was probably the most difficult on my TV.
 

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I'll be getting the AVIA disc soon from Blockbuster Online. I hope that helps. I've been changing settings left and right. I rented Doom last night and it was very bad with ghosting. One dark scene shows the troops walking by. Looked like steam was flying off of them.
 

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Mine, KV30h420, I had the same issue and it was annoying as hell. I made a test with a DVD: the Matrix chapter 11 when Morpheus explains the real world to Neo; the part when the back ground is white and they are both wearing dark clothes. I had ghosting on the sides. So I pause the movie exacly when a ghosting appeared and I entered in the SM menu and I reajusted the size (HSIZ), it use to be at 51 and I reduced it to 44. (may not be the same for you though.

At HSIZ 44, the ghosting disapeared totally. I saved it. Then I used the Avia disc to check to test the overscan. (my DVD player is in 480p) so I reajusted the overscan in the MID3 menu.

It worked for me. I never saw any ghosting since then. Not sure it will work for the others but it did for me. Just make sure you write down your original settings.
 

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I want to avoid the service menu if I can. Don't want to mess around in there. My video options doesn't list "contrast". Is this the "Picture" setting?
 

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Are you using the Microsoft Cables? When I first got component cables for my Xbox it was 3rd party crap and I had ghosting. I got the MS cables and it went away.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I want to avoid the service menu if I can. Don't want to mess around in there. My video options doesn't list "contrast". Is this the "Picture" setting?
Yes Picture is Contrast control, try turning up the brightness a bit and turning the contrast down a bit, maybe a bit more than halfway point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I see this lag mainly with dvds.... I can't say I've noticed ghosting watch HD cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU
The phosphor persistence could possibly be a bit less noticeable with 1080i because it's interlaced.
720p might work better too, since it should convert to interlaced 1080i for display.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU
Sony seems to use relatively slower-fading, higher-persistence phosphors on many of it's TVs to help boost their brightness, which is why I don't generally recommend them for gaming.
Wow, I never knew that!! You are the first person I've seen mention this. Thanks very much, ADU! Gaming is not what I use a TV for most often but it is still a big concern, and actually my primary one for choosing a set. I will never buy any LCD until they can get the response time below 4 ms, for example. Even then I would still prefer a "zero" response time, like on most CRTs (I think, please correct me if I am wrong).


I have never owned a Sony Wega myself so I've never noticed (though I've played games on other people's). I own a Dell Trinitron computer monitor though, which I've hooked up to my Dreamcast for gaming. Should I have noticed on that? I'm guessing it shouldn't have that problem though since it is a monitor (with possible higher refresh rates) as you said.
 
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