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Discussion Starter #1
Just bought a white 'Glasteel' Polywall sheet from Home Depot. This is my first experience with a projector (IN72) and DIY screen -- but as soon as I set it up, I was immediately disappointed! Huge blotches of hotspotting all over, and the texture of the sheet was clearly visible on any solid color. I tried both sides to no avail. Blacks were brownish, too, though I'm not an expert enough to determine the cause of THAT. I thought this would be a good Parkland Plastics alternative... Long story short, I'm returning it tomorrow.


My question is: what other 1-step surface should I look into? I don't want to get into a painting ordeal, as I'm in a small apartment (with little skill). I can't afford pricey name brand stuff, but I'd like another "buy it and hang it" solution, if possible. I can order a 4' X 8' sheet of Wilsonart Designer White from my HD for about $67 -- is this a better route? I have good light control, though I'd like to use it in the daytime, too.


Any help or input is much appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey MississippiMan, I appreciate the advice! You're just the man I hoped would reply, though -- I've been interested in your 'Light Fusion' screen ever since I found out about it. Could you point me to a how-to page? I won't be able to put one together immediately, considering my situation, but I'd like to keep it as a serious option for the future. Thanks in advance



P.S. How much 'punch' does Fashion Gray have compared to the DW? I'll be using the IN72 about 90% in pitch black, and 10% in some ambient light. Which should I go with?
 

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FG will give you better ambient viewing, but you lose some of the "punch" that the dw has. Check out the silverfire mix, all the punch in the dark and excellent ambient light performance (i'm using the comercial formula, but the shot I've seen of the diy mix look good too) all you would have to do is prep your surface with kilz first.


I'd recommend spraying with the wagner, it is a little extra expense but I think the end result is worth it. With the sprayer, paint, kilz, tape, primer, and a velvet covered wood border, ect you will still be under $200. That's about what it cost me to do a 116" screen on drywall.
 

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I recently got into the PJ setup too. I bought an IN72, and made my own screen, I used 3/16" Hardboard from HD, painted it with 2 coats of Kilz 2, and then a thick coat of True Value Winter Mountain, as per the suggestions of this forum, and with use of a 3/16" polyester nap.


It turned out very nice, Blacks are Black, Whites are white, I am very happy with the screen, as well as many folks that have come over to watch TV/Dvd's on it. The frame was the hardest part of the project, but if you can get thru that, you will be good to go.


I have read that others have had good luck with Behr Matte Urethane, and actually bought a quart when I purchased my materials, but to date I have not used it.. yet. It's not so bad to paint your own, and is relatively cheap.


Good luck on your project.



Larry
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Big Lar, I wish I could make that screen! Unfortunately my situation just wouldn't allow for such a project. I don't have the place or tools (let alone the skill) for a paint solution.


Anyway, I forgot to mention that my walls are all white. Even in a dark environment, I'm worried there will be some ambient light simply caused by the PJ. Considering these parameters, does anyone think I ought to check out Fashion Grey instead of DW? I want that 'punch,' but it's not really 'punch' if the blacks aren't there... right?


I received samples of each laminate today. I just can't decide. Can anyone help?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwervel16 /forum/post/0


Just bought a white 'Glasteel' Polywall sheet from Home Depot. This is my first experience with a projector (IN72) and DIY screen -- but as soon as I set it up, I was immediately disappointed! Huge blotches of hotspotting all over, and the texture of the sheet was clearly visible on any solid color. I tried both sides to no avail. Blacks were brownish, too, though I'm not an expert enough to determine the cause of THAT. I thought this would be a good Parkland Plastics alternative... Long story short, I'm returning it tomorrow.


My question is: what other 1-step surface should I look into? I don't want to get into a painting ordeal, as I'm in a small apartment (with little skill). I can't afford pricey name brand stuff, but I'd like another "buy it and hang it" solution, if possible. I can order a 4' X 8' sheet of Wilsonart Designer White from my HD for about $67 -- is this a better route? I have good light control, though I'd like to use it in the daytime, too.


Any help or input is much appreciated!


I would recommend DW but don't expect it to perform well with ambient light unless light fixture is recessed and way to the rear of the room.


You can also try black out cloth from Jo-Ann Fabrics but it has only 1.0 gain whereas the DW has a gain of 1.2.


A third option is to get the High Power material from Da-Lite. It does a very good job of rejecting ambient light from the sides, top and bottom, plus it has a gain of 2.8. However, it may not match your HD72 well since it has an offset which will negate most of the advantages of the retroreflective qualities of the High Power material.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi FremontRich -- where would you place Fashion Grey in your list of recommendations? Is it a viable alternative to DW in a little ambient light? I'm assuming the High Power material is a little pricey. I only need a 92" screen size, however. Let me know!


I have an IN72 by the way, not an HD72. Offset is 128% for my PJ.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just an update for anyone interested -- I ordered both the Designer White AND the Fashion Grey. Whichever one doesn't stack up, I'll just take back to Home Depot. I'll be sure to post side-by-side screenshot comparisons in varying light before I do that, though. I look forward to making a real contribution to the board!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwervel16 /forum/post/0


Just an update for anyone interested -- I ordered both the Designer White AND the Fashion Grey. Whichever one doesn't stack up, I'll just take back to Home Depot. I'll be sure to post side-by-side screenshot comparisons in varying light before I do that, though. I look forward to making a real contribution to the board!

I'm looking forward to your update as I'm in a similar debate. Pics would be great, but even just your feedback would help some of us non-painters looking to start a projector room.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No worries, [Square], I'm still waiting on my order! Home Depot tells me the sheets should be in any time between this minute and Thursday morning. I got my DVI-to-M1 cable in today, so I'm itching to get started.



If anybody has any tips on what kinds of photos or tests I ought to do, please clue me in. I have a Canon A520, and I plan to take side-by-side shots in a few different ambient light conditions and angles. I'd gladly do any special photo requests or settings.
 

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Just an update from my post further up. For lack of anything better to do, I took my screen down and repainted it Behr UPW, and did put a coat of the Behr Matta Poly on it, as first I tried it with my cut off from the original sheet. The UPW is much better for my setup with the IN72. Just wanted to clarify that, and so IMHO, The DW is probably better than the FG, at least in my tests, as I think the Winter Mountain and FG are similar.


Larry
 

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jwerval16,


If you have good light control stick with the DW. Here's a pic of DW and FG in ambient light though:







DW is on the left.


Dark room shots:






Keep in mind that my pj is calibrated for the FG. It's a HC3000U.


mech
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lar /forum/post/0


Just an update from my post further up. For lack of anything better to do, I took my screen down and repainted it Behr UPW, and did put a coat of the Behr Matta Poly on it, as first I tried it with my cut off from the original sheet. The UPW is much better for my setup with the IN72. Just wanted to clarify that, and so IMHO, The DW is probably better than the FG, at least in my tests, as I think the Winter Mountain and FG are similar.


Larry

So you actually have a couple of pieces of DW and FG? Or are they the small sample cards from HD?


mech
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, I apologize in advance for the uber-amateur photos you're about to see. These could not be less "setup" or calibrated, though maybe that in itself is useful to somebody.



The Fashion Gray laminate is on the left, Designer White on the right. These were taken in the kitchen/living room section of my apartment -- not a black hole, but dark as I could get it. Ambient light included a couple 100 watt bulbs in the corner of the room, and a 20 W fluorescent stick in the kitchen. Camera is a Canon A520 on "auto mode" with flash turned off. Screens are not flat, as you can see, and I didn't touch keystoning. This is all literally thrown up with the projector flipped on. Sorry for the weird angle.


I was feeling a little let down about the 480i deinterlacing lag while I took these, so I'm sure I could have done a more thorough job. I'm just going to link to the URLs to save loading headaches, but feel free to post thumbs if you want.


FG & DW on the wall - AMBIENT
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...te-amb-no1.jpg


FG & DW on the wall (w/ full white screen) - DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...rk-whitesc.jpg


IN72 startup logo - DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...rk-infocus.jpg


The Sixth Sense - DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...dark-sixth.jpg


The Sixth Sense - AMBIENT
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...-amb-sixth.jpg


Mac Desktop - DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...-dark-desk.jpg


Mac Desktop - AMBIENT
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e-amb-desk.jpg


Nintendo Wii -- DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e-dark-wii.jpg


Zelda (Nintendo Wii) -- DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ark-zelda2.jpg


Zelda2 (Nintendo Wii) -- DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...dark-zelda.jpg


Super Mario World - DARK
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...dark-mario.jpg


My initial conclusion is that the 'punch' of the DW is far more valuable than the darkness increase w/FG. In fact, FG just seemed to look overall dimmer as opposed to inkier. The only exception to this was in super dark scenes, where the FG had en edge. I tried to snap a 'full black' shot, but the camera didn't pick anything up. Maybe I'll try again if it's worth anything.


Hope this is valuable to someone!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwervel16 /forum/post/0


My initial conclusion is that the 'punch' of the DW is far more valuable than the darkness increase w/FG. In fact, FG just seemed to look overall dimmer as opposed to inkier.


Hope this is valuable to someone!

The FG represents a pretty straightforward solution that is very basic, and very old in the FP world. It's a Gray hued Laminate, and the color is in a fixed state within a sealed material, rendering it less diverse at reacting to reflected light. (The density of a laminate in play) It doesn't so much as absorb light as it scatters it, thereby attenuating it across the entire scale. Most any Gray would do the same, regardless of hue, to some extent. But a hue derived from a combination of tints that is fixed (impregnated or coatedsealed within a plastic or composite

material is going to react one way only. As the examples of the FG does.


Embedded reflective material "is what it is" as well, and receives no counterbalance whatsoever as far as absorbtion, only by the attenuation properties of the selected Hue. This means if it's going to hot spot, it won't have any help controlling such. Balance is everything, and in the rush to find new and purposeful materials, a lot of assumptions are made. They always bear themselves out though.


Projector choice is the only potential mitigating factor as far as FG goes. I'd wager a Panny100u could perform much better.


But the same caveat of "Sealed Fixation" that can at times run against a material like FG is the boon for DW. Sealed, near optically neutral white whose vaguely Matte/Satin finish acts as a reflection enhancement, making DW a real asset to the Dedicated Theater Room crowd w/High CR PCs.


But the heresy of it all is how excellent a laminate with a "Fixed" color or reflectivity quotient can be as a substrate for a "specialty application". The PS90 might very well benefit from a muti-layer of "Dusted on" coating of Faux Glaze.

I can't imagine a better "off the Shelf" white Substrate to paint over than DW, and it's non-permeability

means no adverse absorbtion below the desired area of interaction.


FG? A quick spraying of Clear Matte to afford some room for light to be directed backwards and a boost across the board will result.


It's no stretch to state that the DW is the "Best of The Lot" as far as Laminates go, and I'd go so far as to state it's got the edge on White Light Fusion as far as convenience, and cost . Both have been compared to te ST130, but one needs painting and the other does not.
 

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I went with a sheet of sintra UPW pvc ,and rolled one coat of clear matte on top. I have zero hot spotting and the image still has it's pop. I wanted to go with the wilsonart DW ,but the local HD wanted $75.00 for a 4'x8' sheet and they could'nt cut it to a anamorphic size for me.
 

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with teh above comment, and with something i was wondering about... if a material such as the laminate was to hot spot(as it seems to me from the posted pic's above), would the hot spotting disappear with a coat or two of matt clear/poly?


I mean, if the surface has a shine, and you cover it with a coat thats matt, the shine should dissapear, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think I need to read up a little more on hotspotting.
I thought it was the glossy texture blotches I got on the Glasteel Polywall, but it sounds like the term refers to something else? Could somebody point out the most severe case in the photos I posted so I can get clued in on what it means?


And MississippiMan, I sure wish I knew enough about projectors to take in your post. I'm still too much of a newbie. If I said something stupid, let me know!
 
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