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Discussion Starter #41
Thanks to TMcG I have now decided that I will probably need new ductwork throughout the house. Thanks a lot. I was enjoying buying new toys but I guess I'll be a grown up and do what needs to be done.

When I was installing my non fully functioning HDMI cable, I noticed a leak or two in the rigid duct work joints. My house isn't overly hot or anything and my electric bill isn't out of hand either but it's definitely something that needs to be done. I have a guy bidding the job as we speak. My unit is a 2005 or 06 Goodman. Most people hate Goodman HVAC but I've never had an issue with this thing other than a capacitor last year. It may be time to replace the whole thing, ductwork and all. This won't be a cash transaction but I also wouldn't consider this a "theater" transaction either, so my cash only objective is still viable.
 

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Thanks to TMcG I have now decided that I will probably need new ductwork throughout the house. Thanks a lot. I was enjoying buying new toys but I guess I'll be a grown up and do what needs to be done.



When I was installing my non fully functioning HDMI cable, I noticed a leak or two in the rigid duct work joints. My house isn't overly hot or anything and my electric bill isn't out of hand either but it's definitely something that needs to be done. I have a guy bidding the job as we speak. My unit is a 2005 or 06 Goodman. Most people hate Goodman HVAC but I've never had an issue with this thing other than a capacitor last year. It may be time to replace the whole thing, ductwork and all. This won't be a cash transaction but I also wouldn't consider this a "theater" transaction either, so my cash only objective is still viable.


One word - Mastic. Buy it and use it on all duct joints. Problem solved and substantial money saved.


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FWIW I work in the film industry and you're not going to get anything in the consumer world that's more than 300 NITs in terms of brightness. The Sony x300 is the professional monitor of choice for HDR work and that only gets to 700nits, and it's $30,000. As of right now HDR isn't a standard yet as theres a competition between HDR10 & Dolby Vision. Most movies/shows are being finished in both formats


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Discussion Starter #45
FWIW I work in the film industry and you're not going to get anything in the consumer world that's more than 300 NITs in terms of brightness. The Sony x300 is the professional monitor of choice for HDR work and that only gets to 700nits, and it's $30,000. As of right now HDR isn't a standard yet as theres a competition between HDR10 & Dolby Vision. Most movies/shows are being finished in both formats


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Thank you for posting Charlie. I wouldn't think any of us in this type of thread would get close to the pro world, otherwise, big cinemas wouldn't last long. We are striving to get as close to it as possible though!
 

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Actually, I didn't think anything of it. Unless your ducting is sized incorrectly for your home....which it sounds like it isn't....I would simply seal every joint with duct mastic and then re-wrap everything with brand new insulation, taping the insulation seams with aluminum tape. Last I checked, galvanized metal is the same in the 1970s as it is today. Why spend the money if the old ducting works and can be improved through sealing and new insulation?
 

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I have an Epson Pro 4040 projector. I think you are probably right about the cable. I hate being wrong too. Such is life I guess. I think I will stick with the Monoprice for now until the rest of my upgrades are finished and hopefully cable pricing will come down by then. The real issue I'm having right now, is the brand new Samsung 4K player I bought doesn't read 4K discs. Found out, that's kind of a wide known issue. I have the latest Firmware and everything. Reads blu rays just fine. I got lucky with that screenshot. I was able to get to the Passengers menu screen. I tried 3 different almost new 4K discs and one fresh out of the package and I still have the same issues. Hopefully Samsung will replace this. A lot of Amazon reviews have said Samsung basically does nothing about it. Back to the Xbox for now.
This takes us back to what I was saying in BrolicBeast's thread about the cables. You know what I'm talking about now. My general advice to anyone running above beyond 20' is to go with fiber, pay for it, don't look back, and enjoy never having to doubt the cable and just knowing if something doesn't work its not your main cable. Saves a lot of time and hassles, especially with the description of what you had to go through to run it.

Well for one, how does it all become about scope movies? I would argue a media collection might be actually skewed towards 16x9 content when I think about all the Bluray tv series and Bluray concerts one might own. I know my collection still has a ton of 16x9 content, and when I think of some hdtv series numbering fifty hours plus, does scope content actually even have a chance to outnumber 16x9 content on a per hour viewing "scale"?

I basically agree pushing the screen size, but the ergonomics are eyes might not able able to take the whole screen into view, and if one's eyes start to have to jump around the screen, then eye strain might be a result, for some people. And an argument also might be a "standard" is no more then 80% of the front wall as screen. I understand people push this, but maybe the best results also take into consideration the need to capture light coming off the screen.

To me, this is all about pushing screen sizes, but seating layout needs to be considered. And the room size does play into any discussion about the best screen.
Think about it this way. In my situation at least, the maximum height I could go with the screen was 60". I could have gone with a 60 x 106 16:9, at 60 x 120 2:1, or a 60 x 140 2.37:1. Why would I choose anything but the largest? You always have the option of making the image size smaller with masking if you wanted. You have to make sure you get a projector that can light up a screen that size, but any that put out 1500 lumens calibrated can do it sufficiently, except for HDR, which is another story.

Why not just hang a white sheet or two, and put the pj to work, and the OP decides what works biggest/best for him? In both 16x9 and scope.

Now do fixed side borders at the maximum scope width, and the bottom of the screen which would define the bottom of scope and 16x9 content.
Now for an upper mask that moves up and down. The scope maxes out on room width, or close to it.

The side masks could be as simple as at The Savoy. :) Guitar picks for the bottom of the mask and a push fit up top.

I actually am coming at this from a position where I consider my 16x9 content max'ed out but there's 8-10" of scope width potential, so
the front AT might see a rebuild.
Yes, like he says, test it yourself. In my case I went to a home theater set up in a local store and tried watching their 2.35 screen from various positions. I determined that I was most comfortable at 1.1 screen widths. I based my ENTIRE room around that seating position. Some people may find that is too close, so its a personal preference. You have to see what your sweet spot is.

Thank you for posting Charlie. I wouldn't think any of us in this type of thread would get close to the pro world, otherwise, big cinemas wouldn't last long. We are striving to get as close to it as possible though!
With TMcG posting here you are in the pro world!
 

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Think about it this way. In my situation at least, the maximum height I could go with the screen was 60". I could have gone with a 60 x 106 16:9, at 60 x 120 2:1, or a 60 x 140 2.37:1. Why would I choose anything but the largest? You always have the option of making the image size smaller with masking if you wanted. You have to make sure you get a projector that can light up a screen that size, but any that put out 1500 lumens calibrated can do it sufficiently, except for HDR, which is another story.
Many people are width limited, not height limited. In your situation the 2.37:1 makes sense. For others, like myself, the biggest screen I could put in was a 16x9. With all the kids content we watch, the 16x9 is great. For any scope movies, the screen isn't any smaller than it would have been with the same width scope screen. Best of both worlds for folks like me. I'd definitely recommend 16x9 if you have the height and watch even a small portion of 16x9 content.
 

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I just watched Beauty and the Beast at my local fairly new Cinemark XD theater. It was the most beautiful looking movie I have ever seen to this point. I was truly wowed and I don't think I get like that at cinemas anymore because of my home theater problem, addiction, hobby or however you want to classify it. I saw Rogue One in the same theater a while back but they didn't have a very memorable XD trailer. At least I don't remember it. I'm not saying it sucked or anything it just was another sound format trailer. This time around, they had one that was really interesting. They had a guy in a lab coat that was introduced as the Cinemark Chief Movieologist. He actually introduced the Barco laser projector and the 11 channel sound system, that I think is format agnostic. I read somewhere that it can reproduce Atmos and Auro which is pretty cool. Then he said something about unicorns and the sound and video started flexing it's muscles for a bit. You could hear the other people's ooh's and ahh's in the theater so they were impressed with this setup like myself.



My room isn't going to be this cool unfortunately, but I'm definitely looking to get as close as my budget allows.


Don't sell the potential for this room short (in reference to the last sentence of the post). It absolutely can be that cool, and cooler. Snag a treatment plan that focuses on soundstage width vs. envelopment, properly place your Atmos channels, and tune your subs to perfection. The room can top that experience...all this while watching in your boxers, with the wife in the seat next to you wearing nothing but a smile!


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Why not choose the largest screen? Well not every tv show, concert, or even movie, is available in 1080P. 480i/P doesn't do all that great, scaled to 1080P,
when the screen is 9' wide. So this might be a consideration for some.




I propose that if the OP can live with three seats, (or four 22" wide rocker style commercial theater seats), then you could take a page out of Art Install's
Bauhaus' front wall and check out the columns and linear difusers up front? Plate over the HVAC openings and now take two top takeoffs and connect them to
the top of the column. And maybe plant the difusers on the front surface of the columns.

http://www.artinstall.ru/en/projects/bauhaus

Now with a single row of seats, and zero sight lines issues with a second row, why not mount the screen low? And now you go bigger and do a large
screen at 2:1 or something around that ratio. A three way masking setup, could maximize screen real estate with the use of the zoom function.

Pass on the gear up front, like the Bauhaus has, and start the screen low, and think 2:1 screen(-ish).

ATMOS overhead speaker boxes could be installed as backer boxes and drywalled inside.

I have rebuilt HVAC sheet metal and it was the cost and effort. But I wouldn't rebuild much of yours. I would add two new returns and dump the exhaust
air in the entry area. Might be as simple as a hush box, and a couple of inline fans there.
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Why not choose the largest screen? Well not every tv show, concert, or even movie, is available in 1080P. 480i/P doesn't do all that great, scaled to 1080P,
when the screen is 9' wide. So this might be a consideration for some.




I propose that if the OP can live with three seats, (or four 22" wide rocker style commercial theater seats), then you could take a page out of Art Install's
Bauhaus' front wall and check out the columns and linear difusers up front? Plate over the HVAC openings and now take two top takeoffs and connect them to
the top of the column. And maybe plant the difusers on the front surface of the columns.

http://www.artinstall.ru/en/projects/bauhaus

Now with a single row of seats, and zero sight lines issues with a second row, why not mount the screen low? And now you go bigger and do a large
screen at 2:1 or something around that ratio. A three way masking setup, could maximize screen real estate with the use of the zoom function.

Pass on the gear up front, like the Bauhaus has, and start the screen low, and think 2:1 screen(-ish).

ATMOS overhead speaker boxes could be installed as backer boxes and drywalled inside.

I have rebuilt HVAC sheet metal and it was the cost and effort. But I wouldn't rebuild much of yours. I would add two new returns and dump the exhaust
air in the entry area. Might be as simple as a hush box, and a couple of inline fans there.
I have updated the second post with some basic details about the room and pictures of the current room. I guess I should have done that to begin with. I forgot that not everyone will remember every detail of my build from 3 years ago.

The seating will be 2 rows. I already have a riser built and I already have a pretty nice carpet in there. The back row are cinema style seats from Bass Seating. They are probably the nicest piece of furniture in the house to be honest. They aren't going anywhere. I love them. It's an excellent change of pace to sit in the back row if you've been sitting in leather for long time. You just don't get tired of being in them. This build is not a complete tear down and rebuild. It's just a redo with some upgrades and slight decor changes. There will be no soffits or stage just like last time as I prefer the cleaner look. Since the room is only 8' high, and I'm not soundproofing, I feel like I can maximize my space by eliminating soffits. Also, I'm on at 19 feet, long and 2 feet of that is false wall, which leaves me 17 feet, so a stage was something I didn't feel I needed either.

Unfortunately, I did not sound proof the room, but I also don't regret it. If I ever sell the house, then the next room I build will be much bigger than 19x11. It will be soundproofed properly, have really well laid out acoustic treatment plan, and have all kinds of LFE out the you-know-what. What I have now is a good room that needs a few modern touches. Not that 2014 was that long ago, but since then, 4K and object oriented surround have become the norm and I think it's high time I get with that program.

As far as dumping the projector exhaust into the hall way, I thought about that and discussed it in previous posts with TMcG. That's what I was originally going to do. I'm following his suggestion, however and putting an 8" return in the rear of the room and tying into the main return. I realized that getting voltage to the duct fan would be a pain and it's just another part that could fail. By tying into the main return, I know it's done the right way. Plus, like he said, I can use my Nest thermostat to run the fan and keep the air flowing in that room. It's going to be work rebuilding that return but it's definitely going to be worth it I think. Right now, the main return is filthy. There's no duct board or anything. It's just lumber and a slab. I know my evaporator coil is in need of a serious cleaning or probably just a completely new coil. When I rebuild the return, it's going to be done with duct board and caulked and sealed properly. This HVAC system I have right now is working, but it's not in the best of shape and I intend on fixing that while I'm going through this rebuild.

New ductwork is expensive but I'm in Southeast Texas. If you look on a map, you will see that it literally looks like I live in an armpit. The way BllDo has to worry about radiant heat floors and furnaces and all that stuff in Minnesota, we have to worry about getting everything we can out of our AC units. The AC will run over 14 hours a day for 6 or 7 months out of the year. If I can turn that to 13 hours or 12 hours a day, then I'm winning. Hurricanes Ike and Rita took down most of the big oak trees in my neighborhood so there is no shade anymore on my house. Heating is barely a concern these days where I'm at. It used to get cold here but for the last 2 years, we literally wear shorts in December. My tomato plants lasted almost a year. I planted them from seed at the end of last February and they stopped producing tomatoes after Christmas. It's insane. It got into the '20's on two nights this year in Beaumont. Other than that, it never got below 40 and stayed in 50's and 60's throughout January and February. It sounds like I'm ranting about climate change and I don't want to get that argument started so I'll just leave it at this, my HVAC system needs to get done right.

Living in a geographical armpit is brutal.
 

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Now I just wonder about a shallow baffle wall, and fit two HVAC drops into it,
since you are DIY'ing speakers and doing a rework of the trunk?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Now I just wonder about a shallow baffle wall, and fit two HVAC drops into it,
since you are DIY'ing speakers and doing a rework of the trunk?
What are you wondering about exactly? 2' is a little slim but I can fit my subs back there so we're good. Anything from DIY Soundgroup will be an easy fit. And by anything, I mean three 1099's or smaller. The giant 18" stuff is way too much for this room. If I need to bring the false wall out 3 or 4 more inches that would probably be doable.
 

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Discussion Starter #56 (Edited)
Okay, this morning I got around to putting up masking tape to test out what size screen will work in my room. For a recap: We've kind of been debating on 16:9, CIA, and scope. The width will 10 feet and I do want the screen curved. 16:9 is the goal but I wasn't sure if my 8' room height was going to mean that the bottom part of a 16:9 image would not be viewable from the back row or if when I recline in the front row, a person's feet may interfere with the picture. So without further delay, the results:

Taken from the very back of the room, you can see the masking tape. This is for a 16:9/10 foot wide screen



You can barely make out the black socks but as you can see, there won't be much if any interference with the picture on a 16:9 image



I didn't bother taping up a simulated CIA. I've decided that 16:9 curved is what we're going with. I'm also researching screen pricing and materials as well. Obviously, Seymour is the gold standard around these parts, but I'm a little nervous about seeing the weave with a screen that large from 12 feet away. I'm awaiting pricing from Severtson Screens as well. They are perforated and supposed to absolutely disappear from 8 feet away. Also, you can get a higher gain AT screen with this guys. They are normally a commercial company but do get into consumer stuff from time to time. I have a feeling they are going to be out of my price range, but we'll see.
 

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Okay, this morning I got around to putting up masking tape to test out what size screen will work in my room. For a recap: We've kind of been debating on 16:9, CIA, and scope. The width will 10 feet and I do want the screen curved. 16:9 is the goal but I wasn't sure if my 8' room height was going to mean that the bottom part of a 16:9 image would not be viewable from the back row or if when I recline in the front row, a person's feet may interfere with the picture. So without further delay, the results:

Taken from the very back of the room, you can see the masking tape. This is for a 16:9/10 foot wide screen



You can barely make out the black socks but as you can see, there won't be much if any interference with the picture on a 16:9 image



I didn't bother taping up a simulated CIA. I've decided that 16:9 curved is what we're going with. I'm also researching screen pricing and materials as well. Obviously, Seymour is the gold standard around these parts, but I'm a little nervous about seeing the weave with a screen that large from 12 feet away. I'm awaiting pricing from Severtson Screens as well. They are perforated and supposed to absolutely disappear from 8 feet away. Also, you can get a higher gain AT screen with this guys. They are normally a commercial company but do get into consumer stuff from time to time. I have a feeling they are going to be out of my price range, but we'll see.
Nice! There's no substitute for a real world test to drive a key decision!

--Posted via Tapatalk, which actually is pretty cool.
 

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Why the curved, again??? Doesn't curved preclude masking panels? It's also more costly than flat for little benefit. And finally, the optics of the price point projectors you have or will consider in the future are anticipating a flat screen surface, not curved. Digital manipulation will be required to get the 'saddle' out of the image, especially scope images on that screen where it will be most noticeable.

Food for thought.


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Discussion Starter #60
Why the curved, again??? Doesn't curved preclude masking panels? It's also more costly than flat for little benefit. And finally, the optics of the price point projectors you have or will consider in the future are anticipating a flat screen surface, not curved. Digital manipulation will be required to get the 'saddle' out of the image, especially scope images on that screen where it will be most noticeable.

Food for thought.


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Seymour makes curved masking panels for their screens. Yes it's more costly but I was going for the IMAX/Cinema XD feel in my room. It will provide no actual visual benefit that I know of, other than that it looks cool and is more immersive according to others. Unfortunately, there isn't anywhere for me to sample something like this on my scale so I have to go with AVS guys and my local XD cinema. I have no experience with such a setup but perhaps Brolicbeast can chime in as his room was the motivation behind me wanting to go with curve.

I may go with a flat 10 footer if there will be noticeable image distortion issues although I couldn't see any on Matt's 12 foot wide image.

Again, I'm willing to listen to the debate on both sides since we obviously have time to hash this out.

Remember, I want this room to be done correctly this time, in all aspects from HVAC to screen size to speaker selection and placement. When I built this room a few years ago, I immediately knew the screen was too small and upgraded rather quickly. I didn't like the remote and ended up just using the factory remotes until I got the Logitech. The SVS subs I bought were nice but twice as much as my current DIY 15" Ultimaxes and not near as impactful. My M&K's were about the only thing that I didn't regret. I don't want to go through all that again, so I'm open to any and every suggestion you can throw at me.
 
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