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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi


I have Martin Logan Helos 100 in-ceiling speakers in my living room. Looking for some suggestions on a good 4 Ohm receiver that can drive this ML's.


My budget is around $700 (may be $800). Do you think I can find one at this price point ?


(Please note, I am not a full pledged audiophile. Just begining to set up my first HT
)


Thanks in advance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper9 /forum/post/19569987


Hi


I have Martin Logan Helos 100 in-ceiling speakers in my living room. Looking for some suggestions on a good 4 Ohm receiver that can drive this ML's.


My budget is around $700 (may be $800). Do you think I can find one at this price point ?


(Please note, I am not a full pledged audiophile. Just begining to set up my first HT
)


Thanks in advance.

You can go to accessories4less and get the Onkyo 876 refurbed, for less than $700. It will drive those speakers. Newer models may not produce the results you want. Although many are rated to drive 4 ohm loads in some cases they do not produce as promised. Your best bet would be to get a less expensive AVR with pre-outs and add an amp from Emotiva. The UPA7 will drive those as would the UPA5 if you are only doing 5.1. There are those here that proclaim the Pioneer 1120 will do it. I don't know as I have never used one. Check out that thread to see if it will work for you.
 

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Pioneer 1120 + Emotiva Amp would work too, for that budget. A popular choice as of late, get a 3 channel amp for the fronts and center and use the AVR for surrounds. That could work well for you here too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for your suggesions. I need to do little more research about these AMPs. These are pretty new jargon for me



Otherwise, what are the good 4 ohm receivers available out there? (not considering my 800 dollar budget) ?


Thanks
 

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Magnolia HT at Best Buy has the Onkyo TX-NR3007 for $759(MSRP $1899) which is last years model. They are discontinuing the brand there. If they have any left they'll likely be in back out of site, ask the salesperson to check stock at ones in your area. Solid amp section. Does everything but HDMI 1.4a(for 3D TV's).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 /forum/post/19570178


You can go to accessories4less and get the Onkyo 876 refurbed, for less than $700. It will drive those speakers. Newer models may not produce the results you want. Although many are rated to drive 4 ohm loads in some cases they do not produce as promised. Your best bet would be to get a less expensive AVR with pre-outs and add an amp from Emotiva. The UPA7 will drive those as would the UPA5 if you are only doing 5.1. There are those here that proclaim the Pioneer 1120 will do it. I don't know as I have never used one. Check out that thread to see if it will work for you.

Please help me understand this setup.


1. My receiver should support something called Pre-Amps. Is that right ? or all receivers by default have this.


2. Now I connect these power AMP's (say UPA-7) to receiver. The receiver's pre-amp sends the signal to UPA-7 which then amplifies it and sends it back to receiver and from there it goes to speakers.


Is my understanding right ? or the spekers receive the amplified signals from UPA-7 itself ?


3. Can we control the watts that come out of these AMP's ? i.e if my speakers are capable of handling only 100 Watts at 4 ohms, and if the AMP gives power, wouldn't that damage my speaker ?


I know these might sound simple/silly questions, but I am just trying to figure this out.


Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskenraider /forum/post/19571794


Magnolia HT at Best Buy has the Onkyo TX-NR3007 for $759(MSRP $1899) which is last years model. They are discontinuing the brand there. If they have any left they'll likely be in back out of site, ask the salesperson to check stock at ones in your area. Solid amp section. Does everything but HDMI 1.4a(for 3D TV's).

Thanks for the tip. I shall check this option also.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper9 /forum/post/19571983


Please help me understand this setup.


1. My receiver should support something called Pre-Amps. Is that right ? or all receivers by default have this.

Yes. Your receiver would always (at least) function as your preamplifier/processor (usually shortened to "prepro" in HT jargon).

Quote:
2. Now I connect these power AMP's (say UPA-7) to receiver. The receiver's pre-amp sends the signal to UPA-7 which then amplifies it and sends it back to receiver and from there it goes to speakers.


Is my understanding right ?

No...

Quote:
or the speakers [sic] receive the amplified signals from UPA-7 itself ?

...Yes!


Quote:
3. Can we control the watts that come out of these AMP's ? i.e if my speakers are capable of handling only 100 Watts at 4 ohms, and if the AMP gives power, wouldn't that damage my speaker ?

Yes - you control the wattage by the master volume control of your receiver. No, your speakers are much more likely to be damaged by a clipping, distorting, underpowered amp than an overpowered one - especially if you practice common sense. The extra power just gives you additional headroom.

Quote:
I know these might sound simple/silly questions, but I am just trying to figure this out.


Thanks again.

Hey, it's not like anyone was born understanding this stuff... we all have to figure it out somehow - asking questions when you don't understand is the best way.
 

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Think of it like this...


The receiver has a number of different circuits. The receiver's pre amp outputs take the signal right before the receiver's amp circuits, thus replacing the internal amps with the external amp you connect. Otherwise it works just like normal. As the pre amp section is responsible for stuff like controlling the volume, the amp has one job only, to make the small signal from the pre amp outputs large. Which is why amps often have almost no controls or switches - there's very little to adjust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all your responses guys.


I was researching this pre-amps and amps finally



one more question (For now)


I came across this term A/V processor. Is it same as a 'Receiver' ? I mean, functionality wise..


what is the difference between a device labelled as A/V processor something like "Emotiva UMC-1" and regular receiver say "Yamaha Rx-V667" ?


Is one better than other ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper9 /forum/post/19575003


Thanks for all your responses guys.


I was researching this pre-amps and amps finally



one more question (For now)


I came across this term A/V processor. Is it same as a 'Receiver' ? I mean, functionality wise..


what is the difference between a device labelled as A/V processor something like "Emotiva UMC-1" and regular receiver say "Yamaha Rx-V667" ?


Is one better than other ?

A receiver has a tuner and amps, a processor does not.


Some will argue a receiver does not make for a good processor because of the extra stuff like amps. I am not sure about that. But processors will often have a higher voltage output than a receiver has. Receiver's often have pre amp's rated at 1 V RMS. That may not be enough to drive all amps to full power.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac /forum/post/0


Pioneer 1120 + Emotiva Amp would work too, for that budget. A popular choice as of late, get a 3 channel amp for the fronts and center and use the AVR for surrounds. That could work well for you here too.

+1 for this suggestion. I run the 1120 + UPA7 combo myself.



To clarify one of the questions others missed: not all AVR's have amplifier pre-outs. You'll have to make sure the one you ultimately choose has them if you wish to add an external amp to the mix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok. I am considering of buying this combination Pioneer 1120K + Emotiva UPA5. But while researching on 1120K, I came across the following piece.


===========================================

CONS:

- No 12v trigger. 110 watts per channel (probably two channels driven as there's no way it can delivery full 110 watts to all channels) may be plenty for most, but if you ever decide to upgrade to power hungry speakers or 4ohm speakers, the option of an external amp will be difficult to add due to it lacking the trigger. Why this receiver would offer pre-outs without trigger is mind boggling. You'd have to look for the Elite version of this for the trigger.


- No per speaker cross-overs. If you have the same set of speakers, it will make sense to set the same cross overs for all. However, if you have mix-and match speakers or high quality fronts and mid quality surrounds, then it will be helpful to change the cross-overs per speaker.


- No firmware updates. If there's a problem, you will have to buy the next version because you can't update the software with a firmware update.

===========================================


Since I have different speakers (3 Helos 100 for FL/C/FR and I still need to buy 2 more for my rear), do I need to worry ? (As per point-1 and -2 in the above extract)


Please help.
 

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1. the "trigger" would allow you to turn on the amp automatically when the receiver turns on. Although nice it's not a "must have" feature, you can duplicate this function by getting a "smartstrip" type of power strip that will automatically turn on specific outlets when the "master" outlet gets power...


2. again, separate crossovers per speaker is nice to have but not a crippling loss unless your speakers are all of vastly different capabilities. Since all your speakers will be similar in-ceiling types it won't be a big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the reply. Do you know of any receiver (Similar in features as of Pioneer-1120K) but also have this 12V trigger (So that it can automatically switch-on the amp) ?


2. What is this "smartstrip" type of power strip ? Can you give me an example/link ?
 

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Denon's with pre-outs have 12V triggers but it will be hard to fit into your budget unless you find a deal on an older model (the cheapest current model with this feature is the 3311ci which streets for $800-900). Check Amazon, ebay, and refurb sites (ecost and dakmart) and you should be able to find a 3808, 2809, or 3310 model which would do what you need.


EDIT: Amazon has some open-box 3310ci's for $460-ish shipped.


Onkyos with pre-outs have 12V triggers but for some bizarre reason they cannot be assigned to main zone, only for multizone use



You could also get an older Pioneer Elite receiver.... you could probably snag a good deal on something from the past 1-2 years if you look around.


For Smartstrip: http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByMa...td./Item/LCG3/
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok. Finally I've order Pioneer-1120K from Amazon and Emotiva UPA-5 for Amp. Also ordered necessary cables from Monoprice. I have also ordered a pair of UAC-8.2 for rear speakers.


Waiting for them to arrive.


Meanwhile I am trying to find a way to install my three Helos-100 for FL/C/FR. Our's is a new home and I am kind of worried how this installation goes in the living room. Never did anything like this. (To be frank, I never hanged a photo frame itself on to the wall)



Thank you for all you guys for helping me to decide. I just started with Helos as I liked those speakers very much and then figured out the stuff around them with your help.


Once this setup is complete, I might come back for your suggestions about a good Sub and any other configuration/set-up questions.


Have a Happy Christmas and New Year.
 

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AVR + EMO amp is the way to go like a couple of folks suggested already.
 
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