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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, it's me again. Your local CRT newbie who's trying to brave and get into the world of CRTs :)


I'm sorry to bog down this forum with the umpteents "what's best question", but I can't twist my brain around a couple of thousand posts here - don't even know where to start looking.


I do know what I need though. I need a projector that is:


- high PQ quality (doesn't need to be top of the class, but I wouldn't mind that)

- component as well as RGB inputs

- as silent as possible - out of the box (i.e. no need for extra silencing)

- as small as possible - needs to be installed inside a table, 6 feet from the screen

- has the proper image corrections for low vantage point projection

- other proper adjustments/features that are considered minimum for a good CRT

- can handle a minimum computer resolution of [email protected]

- hopefully with an internal decent line-doubler/scaler (possibly with 2:3/2:2

pull-down), although this is not a necessity and I understand it's a rarity :)

- needs to be from the used market


I don't know what to look for. Nec, Sony, Barco? 7", 8", 9"?


The choices are so many. I really, really can't do a ceiling install - no way. It must fit inside a table. Also, the table must be really low (c. 40 cm ~ 1'4") and the noise level must be very low to begin with.


I'm I wishing for the impossible? Is there such a projector?


I'm looking to buy one from Europe, so American dealers are out of the question - I'm afraid.


I have already one offer for a Seleco model (SVD 800) and I'm seriously considering it, although it's a wee expensive and I have not seen it yet.


All help mucho appreciated.


cheers,

Halcy
 

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- high PQ quality (doesn't need to be top of the class, but I wouldn't mind that)


Go EM ( electro magnetic ) not ES ( electro static ).


- component as well as RGB inputs


Um... compnent inputs are much more expensive than a good KeyDigital transcoder and they do the same job.


- as silent as possible - out of the box (i.e. no need for extra silencing)


I don't know of any, but I'm sure there are others that are better.


- as small as possible - needs to be installed inside a table, 6 feet from the screen


Most CRT units that are EM and at least 7" tubes are not small my sony 1252 is 3x2x1 roughly and 150lb. They go up from there.


- has the proper image corrections for low vantage point projection

- other proper adjustments/features that are considered minimum for a good CRT

- can handle a minimum computer resolution of [email protected]


All three of these are a given consitering your other requirements. The computer at 75 would require a sync rate of 62khz or better.


- hopefully with an internal decent line-doubler/scaler (possibly with 2:3/2:2

pull-down), although this is not a necessity and I understand it's a rarity :)

- needs to be from the used market




You do realize that most CRT's have a fixed throw at 6ft you would have a width of ~ 48 inches. That's a tiny screen. And many PJ's can only go slightly higher throw angles before edge focus becomes a nightmare. And you want this all ina nice inexpensive package?


I think you need to be a little more realistic. 7" ES CRT units produce an excellent image for the budget consious HT. The Nec 6pg is a nice 7" EM device, but the price jumps for these units in good condition. You cannot have the end all be all quality if you are working on a budget ( as a newbie ). If you were a skilled TV repair person then you might be able to work some magic with busted units and re-conditioned tubes, but you are not.



You really need to search the forums a little more before posting questions like this, as most of your questions have been answered before.
 

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Halcy,


I agree with snowmoon. You have listed so many contraints that you are virtually locking yourself out of CRT. Specifically:

as silent as possible - out of the box (i.e. no need for extra silencing)


How silent is silent? If your requirements are virtually noiseless then that pretty much leaves you with a DWin HD-700 7" Projector. Very quiet indeed. I believe it has electrostatic focus. Used models are very hard to find. Can you find a used one locally? Not very likely. And it won't be cheap.

as small as possible - needs to be installed inside a table, 6 feet from the screen


Like snowmoon said, a six foot throw is going to be a deal breaker for you unless you are going to use a very small screen--in which case you might as well go with a good rear projection TV set.

hopefully with an internal decent line-doubler/scaler (possibly with 2:3/2:2 pull-down), although this is not a necessity and I understand it's a rarity


Forget about that. Get used to the idea of using a HTPC or an outboard scaler.


It does not take bravery to get a CRT projector; it takes commitment. Just how commited are you? I can tell you how commited I am. I have 14' x 12' room that doubles as a home office with a desk and PC. I have a table mounted NEC XG110LC in that room and sit off axis, which doesn't bother me a bit with my matte unity gain screen. Would I rather have the beast out of there and have a small digital hanging from the ceiling at the back of the room? You bet I would! Am I prepared to sacrifice the CRT image that I love to get it? Heck no! How commited am I? I will soon be pulling that XG out and putting it up for sale, so I can replace it with a 9" CRT projector.


When you get to the point where you have already decided to buy and set a budget, then it would be a good idea to solicit input. But not before then. If you are inflexible with your contraints perhaps you will be better off with a small digital projector that you can hang from the ceiling or a wall.


--Jerome
 

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Barco has a model with no fans and a real low db rating. Looks like a great projector. Check it out at the Barco web site.


Cine 6

" Enjoy Professional Cinema Quality At Home

The offspring of the Cine range: the Cine 6.

The built-in Line Doubler makes it a state-of-the-art product. This unit features a "no fan design", this results not only in a very silent projector (
 

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Halcy,


considering all the points you reported, I'd suggest an Electrohome ECP4100 or 4500.


they're small, lightweight, superb in quality, very easy to set-up, exceptionally well built, and quiet. Both of them are capable to reach the same resolution (image quality and brightness, I'd add) of some of the bests electrostatic focus equipped 8 inches pjs (old models), but with much more less noise, better colors (in the most of the cases), less weight and size.


The fact that you've to put the pj at some 6 feet, makes me think that your screen will be really small... and the lenses are to be mechanically converged at a very closed angle, that means the need of the accurate scheimpflug adjustment (no spacers), and a pj able to manage such small distance. In any case I'd avoid the usage of a 8 or 9 inches pj. Remember that in the most of the cases, their quality and brightness is required when the screen base reaches some 8-9 (or more) feet, that (in the most of the cases) means a throwing distance of more than eleven feet.


just a suggestion.


Romano
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A big thank you to everyone for comments. They have been very helpful.


Seems like I'm in trouble with the projection distance. My options are 6 (perhaps 7 feet) or then 12+ feet. No middle ground there. With 12 feet I should still get a projected image not wider than 6 feet. It seems the ratios are impossible?


This whole projector thing is driving me nuts:


- I get eye stain / headaches / nausea with DLPs

- LCDs I can't stand due to poor black level / screen door

- I need a decently silent projector (definitely below 30 dB)

- CRTs are really hard to fit to my projection distances / screen size

- Panel TVs are way out of my price range (and too small)

- Don't have space for a big rear projection tv

- LCOS projectors have QC problems (+ not silent enough)

- DILA (JVC) is too expensive for me (and too noisy)


Seems like I'm running out of options :)


Pretty soon I'll have to compromise somewhere, just don't know where yet.


Thanks again for all the help.


cheers,

Halcy
 

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Halcy,


may i ask you where the projector would be placed in your 12'+ scenario? And why would the screen have to be only 6' wide then. Is your wall only that wide? Are your front speakers the issue?


Regards

Bjoern
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Halcy
A big thank you to everyone for comments. They have been very helpful.


Seems like I'm in trouble with the projection distance. My options are 6 (perhaps 7 feet) or then 12+ feet. No middle ground there. With 12 feet I should still get a projected image not wider than 6 feet.

cheers,

Halcy
If your screen->projector distance is 12 feet you should be able to manage a 7 foot screen, based upon the formulae provided with various projectors.

Six feet isnt exactly small, either.


You have to accept that CRT means a big, heavy, immovable projector. Noise shouldnt be a problem as long as you choose the right model.


It might pay to mark out the area a typical CRT projector will occupy and see if furniture can be arranged around it. Remember that projectors can be hidden inside furniture, too.


PK
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bjoern Roy,


I had a type in my calculations, I meant 14 feet (I'm not good with imperial units, I'm metric myself) :)


Anyway, if I project from near - I need to build it inside a table. I had a projector installer visit me today and take a look at our living room (where the HT will hopefully be). We concluded that if we put the projector inside the table we can't move the sofa far back enough and we'd have no leg room under the table (due to projector being inside it). Thus, that option is out of the equation.


Projecting from far I had two possibilities: either I put it against the back wall (it would protrude in quite ugly way from the back wall) at 14' or then I would puncture the back wall and project from the closet behind it (much more elegant solution), but that would take the projector another additional 2-3 feet further back from the screen.


I wish I could hang it from the ceiling from the proper distance from the screen, but I'm afraid that's out of the question (cosmetics, lamp placement, ceiling material, etc.)


I can only manage 6' wide (to me that's HUGE, btw) screen because I need space for the main speakers on both sides of the screen without placing them on the doorway and over the lamp switches.


Now I'm really beginning to feel doubts about having moved into a 100 year old building. They didn't build too many rectangular and easily manageable rooms into this flat :)


Cheers,

Halcy
 

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A pal of mine just bought a BarcoData 701 s, it would probably be the best thing for you also. I was really impressed with that unit, sadly his had a textburn ('you may now shut down your computer' ) It fulfills just about all your req's.


Frode
 

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Hmm, interesting dilemma. I have never owned one, but my understanding is that the Zenith 895 CRT projector has a short throw of 1.2 (see Curt Palme's faq); if you can go 7 feet out, isn't that a 70" screen?


I don't know if this model meets your requirements of 30db, but you may be able to quiet it with a good hushbox, table mount, or fan mod.


You may want to do a forum search for this model to see if this may be your ticket.
 

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Frode ---


just curious ... what did your friend pay for his 701S? Thanks!
 

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Pocatello:


He paid about $ 1100 it's a '98 model with 4800 hours on the chassis. He needs a new red tube, does anybody have one laying about?


But he is seriously thinking about a complete retubing, as there is wear on all tubes. This would cost about $ 1700 in Norway. What do you think about these prices, it would mean he would get an as new pj for $2800.



Even with both wear and burn, the picture is razorsharp and very bright. This is perhaps one of the reasons for the wear, these tubes are run very hard.


Frode
 

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Frode --- is that 1,100 in US Dollars? I don't know what to make of it... I just feel better about the price I paid for my 701S. It seems like they are giving away good 7" projectors in the USA. I don't know why.


I paid about $200 for my Barco 701S, I paid a little more for my Barco 708 (with auto-IRIS), and I paid a little less (twice) to pick up two NEC GP3000's. My wife thinks I am crazy... I don't know what I will do with these large things... but the sellers seem to be almost throwing them away. I don't think this can last very long... they will run out of the PJs pretty soon.


Frode --- thanks for the information. I hope my post is not offensive or insulting. I was just curious as to the price paid by your friend. Actually, now that I think about it, $1,100 seems like a fair price. The 701S was about $10,000 new just a few years ago.
 

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Halcy, it seems that your problem is the throwing distance.

In most of the cases, installing the pj at some 14 feet means a screen of some 9 feet, but if you reduce the throwing distance at some 6 feet, the screen size becomes much less than 6 feet!!


let's say, that for a screen size of some 6 feet you've to put the pj at 9 feet, more or less.



ciao

Romano
 

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Where did you get a CRT projector for $200? and will it do HD res? (At least 768p)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks again to everyone for good tips, especially on installing and projector options.


I've brought up the ceiling installation again with my wife. I'm debating we could dismantle the chassis, paint it the exact same colour as ceiling, make an unobtrusive fastening system and somehow hide the wires that run up our walls.


On the subject of wires: if I can't insert them inside the wall, does anybody have any other suggestions how I can run at least one set of thick wire (preferably 3 - if I don't use an external scaler with input swithcing) up the wall as invisibly as possible?


cheers,

Halcy


PS CRTs are dirt cheap in USA and much cheaper in GER/UK than in Scandinavia. Prices are 2-10 times as high here in Finland for used gear. Even re-tubing is quite expensive. Especially if one thinks about data-quality CRT projectors.
 
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