Good designs hobbled by unavailable drivers
1 - 20 of 75 Posts
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
If you want to list all the designs that do have readily available drivers it's going to be a long list, and that list is going to include a lot of free designs that outperform the BFM stuff for the same investment. Besides, OP mentioned a $1000 TC driver and Ghorn, which are orders of magnitude different than BFM stuff.
It's probably best to identify the unavailable drivers and then identify which designs they were used in.
Joined
·
7,712 Posts
The Ghorn seems to be a good reference point, performance wise. Whats the closest performer with available drivers.
I built some TT with single 8" subs in each, so i cant really say i've heard all he has to offer
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
Assuming you are wanting a horn with tuning under 20 hz, there aren't that many that I know of to choose from. BFM doesn't have anything remotely close.
SO... the choices I know of off the top of my head are -
Gjallerhorn with UXL. (Personally I wouldn't put UXL in a tapped horn.)
Submaximus with UXL. (No problem with UXL in flh, it measures fine.)
There may be more too, I don't have a database of horn designs and don't follow a lot of the threads. Wolfhorn? It's tuned below 20 hz and he listed a bunch of drivers that might work in that design but I've never looked at it so I have no idea if it's a good design or not. There's probably a few more sub 20 hz horn designs too from back around 5 - 8 years ago right after tapped horns were introduced and became overwhelmingly popular and before they fell back out of fashion around here in favor of multiple sealed boxes.
UXL is available isn't it? Just hop on the group buy if it's still open.
Other than that (and those I'm not aware of) you are looking at a new design with the driver of your choice. Submaximus is really the lower limit sizewise for a well designed horn tuned under 20 hz, and it's pretty big. UNLESS you can afford and can find something with an advanced motor like the TC drivers or you go with a lower excursion driver.
If you open it up to tunings above 20 hz, and especially above 30 hz there's a whole bunch of designs with readily available drivers.
SO... the choices I know of off the top of my head are -
Gjallerhorn with UXL. (Personally I wouldn't put UXL in a tapped horn.)
Submaximus with UXL. (No problem with UXL in flh, it measures fine.)
There may be more too, I don't have a database of horn designs and don't follow a lot of the threads. Wolfhorn? It's tuned below 20 hz and he listed a bunch of drivers that might work in that design but I've never looked at it so I have no idea if it's a good design or not. There's probably a few more sub 20 hz horn designs too from back around 5 - 8 years ago right after tapped horns were introduced and became overwhelmingly popular and before they fell back out of fashion around here in favor of multiple sealed boxes.
UXL is available isn't it? Just hop on the group buy if it's still open.
Other than that (and those I'm not aware of) you are looking at a new design with the driver of your choice. Submaximus is really the lower limit sizewise for a well designed horn tuned under 20 hz, and it's pretty big. UNLESS you can afford and can find something with an advanced motor like the TC drivers or you go with a lower excursion driver.
If you open it up to tunings above 20 hz, and especially above 30 hz there's a whole bunch of designs with readily available drivers.
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
There's a huge difference between the mediocre TT design with a cheap 8 inch driver and Ghorn with a $1000 driver. Not even sure what you are looking for when mentioning these two in the same thread but I hope my post above is helpful.
Joined
·
7,712 Posts
Only refered to the TT inregards to BFM's designs, and what i have heard was limited, never intended to compare the TT to a GHorn......
Just looking whats available in the GHorns class with drivers we can purchase is all...
15hz seems to be a fair limit at the bottom
HouseWrecker could be an option
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ewrecker-11hz-twin-cvx-15-tapped-horn-11.html
Thread ends badly though.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ewrecker-11hz-twin-cvx-15-tapped-horn-11.html
Thread ends badly though.
Joined
·
5,081 Posts
Lowarhorn!
I tried to get myself on board with the UXL buy, but I guess I'm rogue. If everyone is doing it, I usually do something opposite.
As far as horn designs, I plan to build a pair of something for my new shop eventually. Probably a wrecker design, since they have multiple drivers documented/proven.
As far as horn designs, I plan to build a pair of something for my new shop eventually. Probably a wrecker design, since they have multiple drivers documented/proven.
Joined
·
29,681 Posts
UXL is a great driver, as is the HT18. I was just being sarcastic since there is an element of that around here. As far as the wrecker designs- I think value wise they are smart. The build is manageable- the results are excellent and you can use relatively affordable and available drivers- stuff you can buy on amazon with free shipping. Solid choice there.
Yes, I agree with the environment here. My personality just won't let me do what everyone else does. I don't own SI subs or Behringer amps, not to say I never will but I usually don't buy gear that is the cheapest or most popular.
Joined
·
596 Posts
The horn I'm building "the sublimator" is 18hz tuned and uses infinity 1260w.
lack of drivers for a specific purpose? There's tons of drivers with every possible combination of coils, motors, cones, spiders and surrounds. Off the top of my head I'd use SPL Dynamics SPL-460D1A for a ghorn. Could get a pair for under 1000 USD (and that's with Norwegian 25% VAT). I'm sure there's manufacturers in the US that make the exact same product. The speakers that most people use aren't usually the cheapest with that exact collection of parts, its usually the one with the largest marketing budget.
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
You can't pick replacement horn drivers off the top of your head, there's a bit more to it than that. This driver doesn't have much xmax for a sub 20 hz tuning (3x less than the TC Ghorn driver and UXL) and this company doesn't ever list Le for any of it's drivers. And it may or may not sim well in the cab, hard to know without an Le spec, and really hard to know without actually doing the sim.
Personally I would avoid this driver and probably all drivers from this manufacturer.
You're not replacing a kidney either.
Feel free to the compare the two coils:
Their magnets happen to be the same as far as I can tell, 500+ oz on LMS includes the Yoke and the washer, the 300oz on the SPL is the magnetized material only.
I have to quote top gear, "You're not trying to get to sixty, you're trying to get to blackpool". I think that was what they said. Can't remember precisely. But the lesson in terms of our goals are these: We're trying to get bass, from Xhz to Yhz at around Zdb. We are not trying to perfectly match a particular frequency response graph. A little bit above and below along the line won't be noticeable. And you can get two SPL drivers for the cost of what one LMS used to cost (as far as I remember). That's 3kw RMS and however much moved air you feel like at any frequency, just slap them in and use the EQ. Might have to do a small adjustment to the enclosure design, mostly to fit two where was one originally, but you EQ it so that the speakers move roughly the same amount of air at each point in the frequency spectrum. Even if you get poorer response at 15hz or whatever your particular bottom target is, its going to be a few db, and your bad hearing at that level won't notice the difference between 130db and 127db.
Also, the LMS is not made of fairy dust, its not perfection, chances are there are better options out there. I would try two SPL dynamics subwoofers because I'm pretty sure that would be better than one LMS, but that's my personal preference, everyone else has different preferences.
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
Two of these drivers still has 1/3 less linear displacement than a single LMS. An the LMS is particularly forgiving of inductance effects. So it's not fairy dust but it is a very good driver.
Have you tried simulating this driver in Ghorn? If not I can find some time to do that tonight. But I'm pretty sure what you are going to end up with is TWO Ghorn size cabs with two of these drivers that only perform as well as a single Ghorn with the proper driver. So this driver is going to cost you more for the cost of wood for the 2nd cab AND it's going to take up all the space a second cab needs, and it isn't going to perform any better than a single Ghorn with the right driver. That's my prediction anyway, we'll see how it fares in a sim later. And there's no way to know how much inductance this thing has.
Have you tried simulating this driver in Ghorn? If not I can find some time to do that tonight. But I'm pretty sure what you are going to end up with is TWO Ghorn size cabs with two of these drivers that only perform as well as a single Ghorn with the proper driver. So this driver is going to cost you more for the cost of wood for the 2nd cab AND it's going to take up all the space a second cab needs, and it isn't going to perform any better than a single Ghorn with the right driver. That's my prediction anyway, we'll see how it fares in a sim later. And there's no way to know how much inductance this thing has.
Joined
·
29,681 Posts
Have you looked at the Fi driver?
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
No, do you want me to? Which model and for what design?
1 - 20 of 75 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!