AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 93 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just when I got comfy with the Sony BDP-300 I got last week at Costco to complement my Toshiba HD-XA2 I've starting reading all these amazing things about the Panasonic BD10AK. It seems to have more audio codec support and some real speaker management capabilities.


To be honest the Sony is not bad at all. I mean I was ready to cut out my UPC codes and send them in with my 5 free movie request form. The video is very good at 1080i with BD and 480p with DVD. The player is just a little slow and the audio from the 5.1s are not as spectacular as I expected.


Should I take the Sony back to Costco and get myself a Panny. Have folks done a direct comparison? I will be sending the video via component and the audio via analog 5.1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,292 Posts
there is no reason i can think of to do that. you'f\\d be stepping down. the lpcm sounds good as anything out there and in time your next receiver will decode every sound format under the sun. also the sony supports 24hz while the panny does not. your next set will likely support this and it's nice to know you'll have it. it's not like the sound where the lack of one format can be made up for by another. either you have 24hz or you don't.


also the sony is faster than the panny. right now, no bd or hd dvd player responds like a regular dvd player. they are all a bit slow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Sony's got 24p. But the most important thing it has going for it is availability. Finding the Panasonic has been akin to winning a lottery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
I am thinking the same as you. I bought the 300 on Sunday and I don't plan on changing my display or amp for another 4 years or so. I want to hear all the audio tracks with the system I have now. In another 2 or 3 years there will be a new format player, heck we'll probably have 3D and smell-o-vision by then. I am going for the Panny if I can find one.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34,841 Posts
The only areas where the Sony would be of more benefit is if you have a 24hz, 48hz, or 72hz capable display or if you have x.x.v. Deep Color display.

Other than that, the Panny is a superior player IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It seems that the only real advantage of keeping the Sony is the 24 fps future-proofing. I will not benefit today with my 1080i component input HDTV. The advantages of the Panny are essentially in the audio area including:


- support for all the key hidef audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD)

- better audio DACs (guessing)

- better LFE cross-over 100 Hz versus 80 on the Sony

- better speaker management: individual speaker gain and delay


I need to do some more listening, but I am not noticing near as much difference in PCM over analog and DD via digital out with the Sony. I think this is due to the fact that the DD takes advantage of my receiver calibration, a higher LFE cross-over for my small speakers and the fact that my Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX may have better audio DACs than the Sony player.


At this point, I feel that I have to at try the Panny just to see if I hear a difference. I really wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing out on anything else -- other than the 24 fps that doesn't really help me today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Although I haven't tried the Panny yet, I did the Sammy P1200. I agree with the comments about 1080p/24 as my plasma can only display 1080p @ 24fps. I also think this display graphics are much better on the Sony. The info screen shows total title time and if you press it twice, the video bandwidth.


Since I got my Sony at Walmart at a good price I have 90 days to return. When the Panny becomes available again, I will give it a comparision test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
800 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


It seems that the only real advantage of keeping the Sony is the 24 fps future-proofing. I will not benefit today with my 1080i component input HDTV. The advantages of the Panny are essentially in the audio area including:


- support for all the key hidef audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD)

- better audio DACs (guessing)

- better LFE cross-over 100 Hz versus 80 on the Sony

- better speaker management: individual speaker gain and delay


I need to do some more listening, but I am not noticing near as much difference in PCM over analog and DD via digital out with the Sony. I think this is due to the fact that the DD takes advantage of my receiver calibration, a higher LFE cross-over for my small speakers and the fact that my Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX may have better audio DACs than the Sony player.


At this point, I feel that I have to at try the Panny just to see if I hear a difference. I really wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing out on anything else -- other than the 24 fps that doesn't really help me today.

...and,


- supports DVD-A


The only reason I've placed my order for the Panny is because of the multichannel analogs delivering decoded DD TrueHD and DTS-HD like my HD-A1. And now I will also have ability to listen to DVD-A using High Resolution.


Both players' multichannel analogs outputs' will be switched by a Zektor HDS4.1 to my Yamaha receiver. The Zektor has been shipped and my Harmony 880 is already programmed for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the info. I just placed an order online with BB. It is supposed to ship within one business day. I guess I'll see...and hear...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,104 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINIGUY /forum/post/0


I am thinking the same as you. I bought the 300 on Sunday and I don't plan on changing my display or amp for another 4 years or so. I want to hear all the audio tracks with the system I have now. In another 2 or 3 years there will be a new format player, heck we'll probably have 3D and smell-o-vision by then. I am going for the Panny if I can find one.


Now that is funny!!! 3D smell-o-vision!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman /forum/post/0


Now that is funny!!! 3D smell-o-vision!!!

Combine that with advanced interactivity and we have a whole new experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
814 Posts
I don't think you will hear a difference between using the Sony or Panasonic when using the analog outputs.


I originally had a Panasonic (just the 10, not the 10a) and now have the Sony. Both sound great with uncompressed PCM. Dolby TrueHD is not really an issue as it is still a rarity for blu-ray discs and DTS-HD is a non-plus as well since what you really need is DTS-HD MA which no player can decode as of yet.


I will say that the Panasonic DOES have better speaker configurability than the Sony, but for me, a BM crossover fixed at 100 Hz is a negative, not a positive - THX standard is 80 Hz, but then again, if your speakers are so small as to require the higher crossover point, then the Panasonic will be perfect for you.


Operationally, I find the Sony to be easier to use than the Panasonic and a touch faster to boot up / load as well. Neither of these players are perfect but both produce great pic and sound for the money. If my pre pro did not handle speaker trim levels in the analog domain, I would definitely have gone back to the Panasonic as it at least allows for speaker distances and adjustments - the Sony is at best rudimentary in this regard.


As for the DACS - my best guess is that they are indeed better than what is in your Pioneer receiver. Even if they are in fact exactly the same DACs, the players most likely have a better implementation of those DACs as they are only required for one function only and probably have a dedicated power supply while the DACs in your receiver are wired every which way and must share the power supply with various other components. Remember, simpler is better. A quick test would be to try out the players as a CD player connected via analog outs to your cd input on the receiver and at the same time, connect the digital connection to another input on your receiver (set it to stereo) and see which sounds better to you. Keep in mind that in this test, you will be looking for detail and clarity, not bass response as your speakers are not capable of presenting this information (you use a sub to fill in this info).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/0


I don't think you will hear a difference between using the Sony or Panasonic when using the analog outputs.


I originally had a Panasonic (just the 10, not the 10a) and now have the Sony. Both sound great with uncompressed PCM. Dolby TrueHD is not really an issue as it is still a rarity for blu-ray discs and DTS-HD is a non-plus as well since what you really need is DTS-HD MA which no player can decode as of yet.


I will say that the Panasonic DOES have better speaker configurability than the Sony, but for me, a BM crossover fixed at 100 Hz is a negative, not a positive - THX standard is 80 Hz, but then again, if your speakers are so small as to require the higher crossover point, then the Panasonic will be perfect for you.


Operationally, I find the Sony to be easier to use than the Panasonic and a touch faster to boot up / load as well. Neither of these players are perfect but both produce great pic and sound for the money. If my pre pro did not handle speaker trim levels in the analog domain, I would definitely have gone back to the Panasonic as it at least allows for speaker distances and adjustments - the Sony is at best rudimentary in this regard.


As for the DACS - my best guess is that they are indeed better than what is in your Pioneer receiver. Even if they are in fact exactly the same DACs, the players most likely have a better implementation of those DACs as they are only required for one function only and probably have a dedicated power supply while the DACs in your receiver are wired every which way and must share the power supply with various other components. Remember, simpler is better. A quick test would be to try out the players as a CD player connected via analog outs to your cd input on the receiver and at the same time, connect the digital connection to another input on your receiver (set it to stereo) and see which sounds better to you. Keep in mind that in this test, you will be looking for detail and clarity, not bass response as your speakers are not capable of presenting this information (you use a sub to fill in this info).

Nice comparision. Many use the analog outs to their AVR. My S300 is connected via HDMI to my Onkyo 805. Has anyone compared HDMI audio/video between these players? BB has the 10A in stock at one of my local store (15 miles away) and I may order online and pickup in the store over the weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/0


I don't think you will hear a difference between using the Sony or Panasonic when using the analog outputs.


I originally had a Panasonic (just the 10, not the 10a) and now have the Sony. Both sound great with uncompressed PCM. Dolby TrueHD is not really an issue as it is still a rarity for blu-ray discs and DTS-HD is a non-plus as well since what you really need is DTS-HD MA which no player can decode as of yet.


I will say that the Panasonic DOES have better speaker configurability than the Sony, but for me, a BM crossover fixed at 100 Hz is a negative, not a positive - THX standard is 80 Hz, but then again, if your speakers are so small as to require the higher crossover point, then the Panasonic will be perfect for you.


Operationally, I find the Sony to be easier to use than the Panasonic and a touch faster to boot up / load as well. Neither of these players are perfect but both produce great pic and sound for the money. If my pre pro did not handle speaker trim levels in the analog domain, I would definitely have gone back to the Panasonic as it at least allows for speaker distances and adjustments - the Sony is at best rudimentary in this regard.


As for the DACS - my best guess is that they are indeed better than what is in your Pioneer receiver. Even if they are in fact exactly the same DACs, the players most likely have a better implementation of those DACs as they are only required for one function only and probably have a dedicated power supply while the DACs in your receiver are wired every which way and must share the power supply with various other components. Remember, simpler is better. A quick test would be to try out the players as a CD player connected via analog outs to your cd input on the receiver and at the same time, connect the digital connection to another input on your receiver (set it to stereo) and see which sounds better to you. Keep in mind that in this test, you will be looking for detail and clarity, not bass response as your speakers are not capable of presenting this information (you use a sub to fill in this info).

Thanks [email protected] Well, my Panny shipped this morning, so I will soon be able to compare. Yes. One of these days I would like to upgrade to larger speakers and be able to do the 80 Hz cross-over. For now, 100 Hz seems to be idea and I'm still amazed that so many higher end players with 5.1 analog outs have such limited speaker management.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
800 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


Thanks [email protected] Well, my Panny shipped this morning, so I will soon be able to compare. Yes. One of these days I would like to upgrade to larger speakers and be able to do the 80 Hz cross-over. For now, 100 Hz seems to be idea and I'm still amazed that so many higher end players with 5.1 analog outs have such limited speaker management.

My HD-A1 provides a choice for Crossover frequency but I find that 100 Hz provides better bass performance than 80 Hz because the analog LFE channel is not as performing as the digital connection. Therefore, I expect to be quite satisfied with the Panny at 100 Hz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
I had the 10A and the S300 at the same time. For me, BD picture quality was the most important factor, and for my setup the Sony beat the Panasonic in this area hands down. No amount of adjustment made the Panasonic look as good as the Sony (remember, I'm referring to BD playback, not SD upconversion). I returned the 10A and kept the Sony.


I know reviews indicate that BD picture quality is about the same on all the players, but for me the difference was significant. The Sony seemed brighter and more detailed at every setting.


Uncompressed sound via analog 5.1 was very similar; I can't say one was better than the other. The Panny does support DVD-Audio, and does a spectacular job with this, so if you have a DVD-audio collection and this is important to you, perhaps this will be the deciding factor. I will continue to use my Pioneer universal player for SACD and DVD-audio, so this was not important for me.


Miata, I'll be interested in hearing what you think after you've tried the Panny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis52 /forum/post/0


I had the 10A and the S300 at the same time. For me, BD picture quality was the most important factor, and for my setup the Sony beat the Panasonic in this area hands down. No amount of adjustment made the Panasonic look as good as the Sony (remember, I'm referring to BD playback, not SD upconversion). I returned the 10A and kept the Sony.

Otis52, May I ask what kind of video set-up we are talking about -- display, connections, etc .? I really was awfully impressed with the 480p component output of the Sony for film based DVDs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
will try to compare the two players myself this weekend as well.


For some reason, the S300 I got is no faster than the BD-10a.

I get 27sec to load Planet Earth disc and 37sec for KOH (tray load to FBI screen)

Still hoping other forumers can verify quantatively.

Also notices this S300 exhibit slight pauses during operations such as FF scanning,

where as BD-10a operates a bit smoother.


Some esoteric praises for S300:


1. better OSD structure. BD-10a menu system is very layered and similar to the dvd-recorders i've bought from them before, but some simple operations simply took too many key strokes.

2. better remote. Having "eject" and "subtitle" button on S300 remote automatically declared the winner for my parents. The BD10a jog dial executes poorly.

3. I can play MPEG2 TS files on the S300 using a DVD-SL/DL. Even seems to have better compatibility than PS3 on some multichannel audio streams as I didn't need to re-parse the files through TSdemux for the S300. Easily turns S300 into a Plasma/LCD seller with these HD demo clips.

4. don't have the hardware to test AVCHD. Also notices both manual states no BD-R/BD-RE support. Can't verify this, but have to say was disappointed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


Otis52, May I ask what kind of video set-up we are talking about -- display, connections, etc .? I really was awfully impressed with the 480p component output of the Sony for film based DVDs.

S300 is connected to a Samsung HL-R6167W (61" 720p) via HDMI with player set to 1080i. (BTW, another advantage of the S300 is you can change resolution on the fly.)


I found that the "Standard" video setting on the S300 look best with my setup. I'm still trying to decide whether 1080i or 720p are best with this display...for now, I think 1080i may be slightly better, but they're so close that this might be my imagination.


SD DVD playback looks fine to me, better than my old Sony 75H upconverting player. (I don't have component video connected, so can't judge 480p playback via component.) The Panasonic might have had an edge in SD upconversion, but not enough to make a difference to me. Again, FOR MY SETUP, Sony clearly had the edge in BD picture quality.


5.1 analog outs are connected to a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver. Eventually I'll get a receiver with HDMI connections, but uncompressed soundtracks on Blu-ray discs sound spectacular with my current setup.
 
1 - 20 of 93 Posts
Top