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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0



So, unless the Panny's 5.1 analog audio is just superb, I'll be returning it to Best Buy. I have not yet touched any of the "free discs." BTW, any special audio tests anybody would recommend given this BD collection?


Casino Royale (Blu-ray)

Donnie Brasco (Blu-ray)

Enemy of the State (Blu-ray)

The Fifth Element (Blu-ray)

Hart's War (Blu-ray)

Identity (Blu-ray)

Layer Cake (Blu-ray)

Seven Years in Tibet (Blu-ray)

Tears of the Sun (Blu-ray)

The Terminator (Blu-ray)

Casino Royale - during the 'free running' chase toward the beginning there are a couple of great explosions that really get the subwoofer going!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


I got the Panny yesterday and have both the Sony and Panny connected and set-up with the Harmony remote. It is clear that I need to do some audio calibration before I can give any kind of useful feedback in that area. The audio differences are the main reason I went for the Panny. So, far the analog component video for both BD (1080i) and DVD (480p) are very similar with film based material. I've heard other people compare the responsiveness of the players, but all I can say is that they are both slow and unresponsive. I'm not sure that I want to get out a stop watch to quantify how bad they are. I'm not complaining. This is the price you have to pay for leading edge HD. The good news is that they both seem to be relatively stable.


A few general observations so far:


- the Panny is very light in weight -- a mixed bag -- makes me a little nervous, but makes me think that the power situation is under control unlike some other HD components out there...

- I like the range of video settings with the Panny

- the Panny OSD screens are ugly and less than intuitive

- the Panny remote is a wreck

- the Panny's front door really is an annoyance as is not having an eject button on the remote -- I leave it down now and will remove it if I decide to keep

- there doesn't seem to be any kind of bit rate meter like the Sony

- I don't know what all the fuss is about the 2.2 update. It was easy as can be (at least when using a Mac:)

- I'm getting a little DVD RP-91 Deja Vu


So, unless the Panny's 5.1 analog audio is just superb, I'll be returning it to Best Buy. I have not yet touched any of the "free discs." BTW, any special audio tests anybody would recommend given this BD collection?


Casino Royale (Blu-ray)

Donnie Brasco (Blu-ray)

Enemy of the State (Blu-ray)

The Fifth Element (Blu-ray)

Hart's War (Blu-ray)

Identity (Blu-ray)

Layer Cake (Blu-ray)

Seven Years in Tibet (Blu-ray)

Tears of the Sun (Blu-ray)

The Terminator (Blu-ray)

Thanks for keeping us updated. Do you know if the Harmony remote can be programmed to eject the disc on the Panny? Let us know any more observences as you play with the Panasonic.
 

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Try the TRANSPORTER sounds is great on 5.1 multichannel IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHG /forum/post/0


Thanks for keeping us updated. Do you know if the Harmony remote can be programmed to eject the disc on the Panny? Let us know any more observences as you play with the Panasonic.

There is no way to eject with remote. I tried a code in the Harmony database that did not work. My old RP-91 remote eject button also had no effect. This door thing is a joke. Even the firmware update instructions had to emphasize not to close the door during the firmware update since it automatically opens when the update is finished. I hope this is the last player that anybody makes with a manual door.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
OK. I spent a few hours doing audio calibration and mostly going through the re-mastered TFE Bu-ray disc especially the "Ruby Rhod meets Korben Dallas" and the "Diva Concert" chapters. I also played parts of "Hart's War," "Enemy of the State" and "Layer Cake."


There are so many little things about the Panny that just bug me. I was hoping that the Panny would not sound that much better than the Sony -- but it does. I'm not sure which way to go now. The analytical side of me says to go with the Panny for it's better AQ, but the other side is wondering if the many nuisances will drive me crazy over time. My wife saw the box of free discs and her only comment was, "we already have all of them." (on DVD). I still have a while to make a decision.


Also a note for casual observers. Your results may be very difference if:


- using HDMI to either display or amp

- receiver/audio pre-processor can calibrate speakers for 5.1 analog inputs

- have full range speakers that are more equidistant


[] Nice things about both:


- film based BD (1080i) and DVD (480p) PQ over component look great (TFE looks gorgeous on both:)

- stability -- no glitches with either


[] Bad things about both:


- slow and unresponsive to remote commands


[] Reasons for keeping the Sony BPD-300:


- Panny's front door really is an annoyance -- I leave it down now and will remove it if I decide to keep

- Panny does not have an eject button on the remote

- Sony has much better OSD interface -- cleaner and more intuitive

- Sony has much better remote

- Sony has video bit-rate display option

- Panny does not display chapter numbers with skip button


[] Reasons for swapping in the Panasonic BD10A:


- Panny AQ from 5.1 analog out

- Panny speaker set-up: delay, trim, etc.

- Panny range of video settings


[] Other observations:


- On the new TFE BD the PCM sounded better than the TrueHD. Since the Panny does not use the "small speaker" settings with TrueHD and DTS HD will I really be able to take advantage of these codecs with my small speakers using analog out?

- The analog audio gave better detail and depth than the digital, but the digital has better balance due to receiver calibration/equalization. If I receiver were more than 2 years old I might consider a nice HDMI unit.

- The DVD 480p output for film based sources for both players is very close to my Reon based HD-XA2. There is no comparison for video based materials -- the Reon simply rules.


[] Test system:


- Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT/HDTV

- Sony BD-P300 (analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Panasonic BMP-10A (FW 2.2, analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX Rcvr

- Boston Acoustics Micro90 series speakers

- Velodyne SPL II 12" subwoofer

- Logitech Harmony 670 remote


- Procedure: calibrated as best as possible with Panny, then did a auto-calibration at the receiver for digital inputs. There is nothing to calibrate on the Sony and I noticed that the front speaker levels varied by about 2 dB and the rear by 6 dB. Manually swapped 6 RCA cables between players and receiver.
 

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does the panny resume bd's if powered off? ( I don't expect java enhanced discs like potc 1 or 2) but how about others?


The s300 does on DVD's, the BDPS1 does on BD's too, but the 300 doesn't. I guess a fw update could fix this, since it's big bro the S1 does.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


OK. I spent a few hours doing audio calibration and mostly going through the re-mastered TFE Bu-ray disc especially the "Ruby Rhod meets Korben Dallas" and the "Diva Concert" chapters. I also played parts of "Hart's War," "Enemy of the State" and "Layer Cake."


There are so many little things about the Panny that just bug me. I was hoping that the Panny would not sound that much better than the Sony -- but it does. I'm not sure which way to go now. The analytical side of me says to go with the Panny for it's better AQ, but the other side is wondering if the many nuisances will drive me crazy over time. My wife saw the box of free discs and her only comment was, "we already have all of them." (on DVD). I still have a while to make a decision.


Also a note for casual observers. Your results may be very difference if:


- using HDMI to either display or amp

- receiver/audio pre-processor can calibrate speakers for 5.1 analog inputs

- have full range speakers that are more equidistant


[] Nice things about both:


- film based BD (1080i) and DVD (480p) PQ over component look great (TFE looks gorgeous on both:)

- stability -- no glitches with either


[] Bad things about both:


- slow and unresponsive to remote commands


[] Reasons for keeping the Sony BPD-300:


- Panny's front door really is an annoyance -- I leave it down now and will remove it if I decide to keep

- Panny does not have an eject button on the remote

- Sony has much better OSD interface -- cleaner and more intuitive

- Sony has much better remote

- Sony has video bit-rate display option

- Panny does not display chapter numbers with skip button


[] Reasons for swapping in the Panasonic BD10A:


- Panny AQ from 5.1 analog out

- Panny speaker set-up: delay, trim, etc.

- Panny range of video settings


[] Other observations:


- On the new TFE BD the PCM sounded better than the TrueHD. Since the Panny does not use the "small speaker" settings with TrueHD and DTS HD will I really be able to take advantage of these codecs with my small speakers using analog out?

- The analog audio gave better detail and depth than the digital, but the digital has better balance due to receiver calibration/equalization. If I receiver were more than 2 years old I might consider a nice HDMI unit.

- The DVD 480p output for film based sources for both players is very close to my Reon based HD-XA2. There is no comparison for video based materials -- the Reon simply rules.


[] Test system:


- Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT/HDTV

- Sony BD-P300 (analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Panasonic BMP-10A (FW 2.2, analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX Rcvr

- Boston Acoustics Micro90 series speakers

- Velodyne SPL II 12" subwoofer

- Logitech Harmony 670 remote


- Procedure: calibrated as best as possible with Panny, then did a auto-calibration at the receiver for digital inputs. There is nothing to calibrate on the Sony and I noticed that the front speaker levels varied by about 2 dB and the rear by 6 dB. Manually swapped 6 RCA cables between players and receiver.

Don't you just hate making decisions? I think you covered all the comparision points very nicely. I did return the Panny but for a different reason. But you point out the little things (remote, OSD, flip-door) would make me lean towards the S300. My setup is different, but I do agree about the AQ being better with the Panny. If I had to rate the 2 on audio alone, I'd give the Panny an 8.5 and the Sony a 7.5


YMMV.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


OK. I spent a few hours doing audio calibration and mostly going through the re-mastered TFE Bu-ray disc especially the "Ruby Rhod meets Korben Dallas" and the "Diva Concert" chapters. I also played parts of "Hart's War," "Enemy of the State" and "Layer Cake."


There are so many little things about the Panny that just bug me. I was hoping that the Panny would not sound that much better than the Sony -- but it does. I'm not sure which way to go now. The analytical side of me says to go with the Panny for it's better AQ, but the other side is wondering if the many nuisances will drive me crazy over time. My wife saw the box of free discs and her only comment was, "we already have all of them." (on DVD). I still have a while to make a decision.


Also a note for casual observers. Your results may be very difference if:


- using HDMI to either display or amp

- receiver/audio pre-processor can calibrate speakers for 5.1 analog inputs

- have full range speakers that are more equidistant


[] Nice things about both:


- film based BD (1080i) and DVD (480p) PQ over component look great (TFE looks gorgeous on both:)

- stability -- no glitches with either


[] Bad things about both:


- slow and unresponsive to remote commands


[] Reasons for keeping the Sony BPD-300:


- Panny's front door really is an annoyance -- I leave it down now and will remove it if I decide to keep

- Panny does not have an eject button on the remote

- Sony has much better OSD interface -- cleaner and more intuitive

- Sony has much better remote

- Sony has video bit-rate display option

- Panny does not display chapter numbers with skip button


[] Reasons for swapping in the Panasonic BD10A:


- Panny AQ from 5.1 analog out

- Panny speaker set-up: delay, trim, etc.

- Panny range of video settings


[] Other observations:


- On the new TFE BD the PCM sounded better than the TrueHD. Since the Panny does not use the "small speaker" settings with TrueHD and DTS HD will I really be able to take advantage of these codecs with my small speakers using analog out?

- The analog audio gave better detail and depth than the digital, but the digital has better balance due to receiver calibration/equalization. If I receiver were more than 2 years old I might consider a nice HDMI unit.

- The DVD 480p output for film based sources for both players is very close to my Reon based HD-XA2. There is no comparison for video based materials -- the Reon simply rules.


[] Test system:


- Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT/HDTV

- Sony BD-P300 (analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Panasonic BMP-10A (FW 2.2, analog comp video out, 5.1 analog audio out)

- Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX Rcvr

- Boston Acoustics Micro90 series speakers

- Velodyne SPL II 12" subwoofer

- Logitech Harmony 670 remote


- Procedure: calibrated as best as possible with Panny, then did a auto-calibration at the receiver for digital inputs. There is nothing to calibrate on the Sony and I noticed that the front speaker levels varied by about 2 dB and the rear by 6 dB. Manually swapped 6 RCA cables between players and receiver.

If I was you I would get rid of the Panny since you are that annoyed with the door on the front I feel like it adds to the look of the Panny I have to get up any way to put in the disk

As far as my Panny goes the response to the remote and the load times are fine

The remote could use some back lighting but I have a Harmony 880

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
I am leaning towards returning the Panny. The big letdown for me was that the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD modes do no use the small speaker settings. If I sacrifice a little AQ in the short term I have $150 to put towards a new HDMI receiver. With an HDMI receiver the Sony will allow me to send full resolution 5.1 PCM for DD, DD+, DTS and supposedly TrueHD. Anything HTS HD will be down-converted to still good resolution 5.1 PCM. Is this all correct?
 

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I also keep leaning towards the Sony for a lot of the same little reasons mentioned. Plus, I really want 24fps. I keep looking at the Panny, because it seems to be the player of choice around here. I think for my purpose, though, the Sony will suit me better. Everybody seems to mostly talk about the analog outputs on the Panny, but I do have an Pio 84 HDMI receiver. Sony will end up in the bedroom eventually, anyway. Then add in the $150 price difference and the Sony just makes more sense. Already have the movies I am interested in that come with the Panny.
 

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I wanted a BR player that can match my HD-A1 for sound quality. And that means a player which can decode DD TrueHD and DTS-HD and a player with multichannel analogs. The Panasonic DMP-BD10A fits the bill.


My Yamaha receiver does not have HDMI inputs/output. And to me that is not a problem because I'm familiar and appreciate very much the use of multichannel analogs. So,


In recent days I received a Zektor HDS4.1 switch box to switch both sets of multichannel analogs and yesterday I received a Ram HDMI switch box. Both boxes work very well.


So all is ready to receive my Panny in a few weeks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHG /forum/post/0


I also keep leaning towards the Sony for a lot of the same little reasons mentioned. Plus, I really want 24fps. I keep looking at the Panny, because it seems to be the player of choice around here. I think for my purpose, though, the Sony will suit me better. Everybody seems to mostly talk about the analog outputs on the Panny, but I do have an Pio 84 HDMI receiver. Sony will end up in the bedroom eventually, anyway. Then add in the $150 price difference and the Sony just makes more sense. Already have the movies I am interested in that come with the Panny.

1080p/24 is the reason I returned the Panny. It may be a mind thing but the PQ is just better on my plasma @ 24 fps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien /forum/post/0


I wanted a BR player that can match my HD-A1 for sound quality. And that means a player which can decode DD TrueHD and DTS-HD and a player with multichannel analogs. The Panasonic DMP-BD10A fits the bill.

How are you addressing the lack of Bass Management for True HD and DTS HD? Full range loudspeakers at all positions?


I just installed a 10AK in my non-HDMI system, and was moved to re-install to my HT room my Outlaw ICBM to take on BM duties for the player.


The lack of an adjustable crossover, coupled with non-functional BM with True HD and DTS-HD really is an issue that it seems many users are ignoring.


Brian
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc /forum/post/0


How are you addressing the lack of Bass Management for True HD and DTS HD? Full range loudspeakers at all positions?


I just installed a 10AK in my non-HDMI system, and was moved to re-install to my HT room my Outlaw ICBM to take on BM duties for the player.


The lack of an adjustable crossover, coupled with non-functional BM with True HD and DTS-HD really is an issue that it seems many users are ignoring.


Brian

As I said before, I have yet to receive my BD10A. If the sub output is anything like my HD-A1, the sub level comes out -10 dB vs other speakers. I have corrected that to perfection by lowering levels for all speakers to -10 dB and leaving the sub at 0 dB. The Gain setting at the sub remains at the position set for SPDIF. All I need to do is adjust the receiver's Master Volume to my taste.


To this day I have not read to what degree the sub level is deficient. But I do know that I can lower all speaker levels in the Panny by a maximum of -6 dB, leaving the sub at 0 dB. I have great confidence that I will be able to sub output to match by HD-A1 with analogs.


As for Panny changing the size to LARGE to accommodate DD TrueHD and DTS-HD, the norm is that the low frequencies (in this case the fixed setting of 100 Hz or lower) are carried by both the Front speakers and the sub. Essentially frequencies over 60 Hz as frequencies below that can hardly be heard from the Fronts, even for Tower speakers like mine capable of 40 Hz. My SVS sub will be able to deal with this, not to worry. As for Crossover, my HD-A1 performs better at 100 Hz (multichannel analogs) than at 80 Hz Crossover. There is something about bass management that appears different in performance using multichannel analogs.


All I want for the Panny is to match what I get with the HD DVD player using multichannel analogs.
 

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What if there is no eject on the remote over the Panny, and even there is one dont you have to get up and take the disc out, the eject button only eject the disc out but no matter what you will always have to get up to the machine and to completely take it out, unless you have a robot machine to take them out and put it back in a shelf LOL
Just kidding, I love my new panny but I also have the 10% disc with CC to get the bdp s300 plus 2 free movies and another 5 rebate movies. I am also torn between these two beast and still have about 3 weeks to return the panny so please keep the opinion coming. Thanks Miata for creating this post. I have been watching it.



**********************

I wish I have a robot who can operate my HT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian /forum/post/0


What if there is no eject on the remote over the Panny, and even there is one dont you have to get up and take the disc out, the eject button only eject the disc out but no matter what you will always have to get up to the machine and to completely take it out, unless you have a robot machine to take them out and put it back in a shelf LOL
Just kidding, I love my new panny but I also have the 10% disc with CC to get the bdp s300 plus 2 free movies and another 5 rebate movies. I am also torn between these two beast and still have about 3 weeks to return the panny so please keep the opinion coming. Thanks Miata for creating this post. I have been watching it.



**********************

I wish I have a robot who can operate my HT.

The issue is that I have a low rack. I have to walk over to the rack. Bend over and open the door. If the eject action had no delay that would not be an issue. However, it takes about 4 seconds to open the tray. So, I have to stay bend over waiting for the tray to open then change the disk and close the door. Bad design. Now that I am using the Harmony remote I like my region free DVD player (OPPO), HD DVD player (HD-XA2) and BD player to work the same. The Panny doesn't fit into that model. Now, what I would really like is a region-free, combo player with killer bass management. I hope Denon comes through. I really loved the sound from the DVD-2930CI before I returned it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata /forum/post/0


The issue is that I have a low rack. I have to walk over to the rack. Bend over and open the door. If the eject action had no delay that would not be an issue. However, it takes about 4 seconds to open the tray. So, I have to stay bend over waiting for the tray to open then change the disk and close the door. Bad design. Now that I am using the Harmony remote I like my region free DVD player (OPPO), HD DVD player (HD-XA2) and BD player to work the same. The Panny doesn't fit into that model. Now, what I would really like is a region-free, combo player with killer bass management. I hope Denon comes through. I really loved the sound from the DVD-2930CI before I returned it.

I think thats called exercise(Kidding)mine doesn't seem to take that long.I squat

at the knees and man can you hear the knees grind but that just the price I pay
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcanary73 /forum/post/0


I think thats called exercise(Kidding)mine doesn't seem to take that long.I squat

at the knees and man can you hear the knees grind but that just the price I pay

My wife has already started commenting that I am developing new muscles
. I've already boxed up the Panny and moved the analog audio connectors to my HD-XA2 which seems to have better bass management than any of other players -- not to mention my Pioneer Elite Receiver which has cross-overs at 50-100-150. I'm also looking at some full range Boston Acoustics speakers for the front stage.
 
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