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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found this on another Forum. It was a response from a Panasonic representative. I thought it would be a good cut and paste statement, for the million times we get a question about burn in. It is really well put, and strait from the source. Andrew



"Panasonic has worked diligently to lessen if not eliminate the occurence of burn-in on our sets. However even better than using a pixel shifting technology to spread the burn-in around, we have addressed the root cause of burn-in by formulating the phosphors to be more resistant to the effects of static images on the set.


Our facilities in Highland, New York have applied for and received patents for 9 advancements in phosphor technology. The most recent have been developments that make the most critical phosphors more stable, longer lasting and slower to lose luminosity. This will make our plasmas last longer (far beyond 20 years of 7 hour a day use), and less susceptible to burn-in. The reason is that later versions of our sets use the new formulation phosphors that lose brightness slower. The slower they lose brightness the less likely they are to suffer from burn-in.

Our latest sets lose brightness slower than a CRT. Thus that would indicate better resistance to the effects of image retention or burn-in. In independent testing (ISF) 3 random plasma sets were left on the menu for Halo 2 for 48 hours. When checked after this torture test all 3 plasma sets showed a "ghost" image of the menu. However, they then ran a video loop for 24 hours and re-checked the sets. The "ghost" image was no longer discernible and the sets appeared to have never suffered from burn-in. This situation has been repeated by others in similar tests.


The conclusion is that burn-in is still possible BUT the probability of it is extremely low. Even after accidently leaving a video game menu on for 48 hours the sets appear to lose the "ghost" image if run for a comparable time with regular video. In other words you don't need a special "white bar scroll" to fix the set. By the way, the white bar scroll ages the set more quickly so that areas not burned in are decreased in brightness to match the areas that are.


If you take precautions the likelihood that you will experience burn-in is not worth worrying about. If you fill the screen completely while watching it as often as you can (yes some widescreen movies still have black bars for super widescreen content but that is ok) you are less likely to have burn-in than a tube set .


This year marks the 10th year we have produced and sold consumer model plasmas.Amazingly the 42" set we are selling this year is approximately 1/10th the price of the 42" ED we sold back then. Panasonic would have abandoned plasma technology years ago IF burn-in issues were significant and switched to alternative technologies.


LCD is not necessarily safe from "ghost images" either. Most LCD Manufacturers indicate in their owners manuals NOT to leave static images on the set for long periods of time. 2 manufaturers have even written "white papers" outlining the effects of what they call "image persistance" that manifests itself as a ghost image and how to prevent it. Just google "LCD Image Persistance" and look for results.


This is not made to be a bash against LCD but does indicate that neither technology is perfect. However in typical everyday usage both sets can provide years of quality performance and with a little precaution, or possibly none at all will not ever have an issue with "ghost" image issues. We would have been run out of business by now if burn-in affected a precentatge of the sets we sell"
 

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Thx and it sounds like a fair statement. Panasonic had already the reputation to really deliver sets with less burn in problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic(tm) /forum/post/0


Thx and it sounds like a fair statement. Panasonic had already the reputation to really deliver sets with less burn in problems.

I thought it was really good. It was in response to a question on why Panasonics did not have any anti-burn in Technology such as the white screen. After reading it again I guess it is more relevant to a Panasonic thread, but I guess it is good general knowledge. I have the 58" 60u, and I had always wondered why Panasonic did not have all the anti-burn in features that the Samsung and Pioneer had. I image the improved phosphor statement is true to all the top manufactures. I would imagine that Samsung and Pioneer have the anti burn in features just as an extra feature to help prevent burn in. I don't think those features are necessary anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Originally Posted by viper900 /forum/post/0


I don't have much knowledge in plasma TVs and what not but I'm puzzled on what I should do IF I had screen burn-in?


What procedures would I have to take?

Read the pioneer pdf that he listed above. I just got done reading it. It is very true, and most people will tell you about this. Just watch movies or tv that fills the entire screen. Eventually the IR "burn in" will go away.
 

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A little precaution with breaking in the set early on, and then being proactive if you see IR, and you will likely never have a problem with long term IR, let alone ever see burnin. Burnin is really a thing of the past, unless it occurs due to absolute and complete pure stupidity
. Unless someone just completely and utterly abuses the set for an ungodly amount of time, chances are they will never see burnin, (worst case would be long term IR that would take 100's of hours to fix).
 

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"In independent testing (ISF) 3 random plasma sets were left on the menu for Halo 2 for 48 hours. When checked after this torture test all 3 plasma sets showed a "ghost" image of the menu. However, they then ran a video loop for 24 hours and re-checked the sets. The "ghost" image was no longer discernible and the sets appeared to have never suffered from burn-in. This situation has been repeated by others in similar tests."


This statement is the exact reason some of us are shying away from plasma despite the fact plasma renders the best PQ. I have said this before but it's not the permanent burn in i'm worried about, i know that it can eventually be erased, the problem is you have to run a video loop for 24 hours (using this statement as an example). This means the TV is dictating to you instead of the other way around. The mere fact you have to run a video loop (what if you don't have a DVD player?) for 24 hours is not my idea of entertainment. When i get my display it won't be connected to a DVD player because i have the top of the line cable package. I don't need to watch DVD's since i get every movie channel (about 40 altogether). Hard to enjoy what you're watching when you are constantly monitoring your viewing habits.
 

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lipcrkr -


Why do you think the "video loop" has to be video from a dvd player? Why don't you believe other members here who state that you can simply watch broadcast television and the IR will go away? In your example they kept a static image on the screen for 48 hrs straight...when do you do that at home? How is a plasma dictating to me? In your example I can dictate to the tv that I can leave a static image on screen for an extended period of time and it STILL will be resolved and I can watch and do what I want with it...


What the statement you quote above does for me is simply back up what many of us here are saying - even if your plasma gets IR...IT WILL GO AWAY! This only proves you don't have to monitor your viewing habits but instead you can go ahead and enjoy your plasma.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr /forum/post/0


"In independent testing (ISF) 3 random plasma sets were left on the menu for Halo 2 for 48 hours. When checked after this torture test all 3 plasma sets showed a "ghost" image of the menu. However, they then ran a video loop for 24 hours and re-checked the sets. The "ghost" image was no longer discernible and the sets appeared to have never suffered from burn-in. This situation has been repeated by others in similar tests."


This statement is the exact reason some of us are shying away from plasma despite the fact plasma renders the best PQ. I have said this before but it's not the permanent burn in i'm worried about, i know that it can eventually be erased, the problem is you have to run a video loop for 24 hours (using this statement as an example). This means the TV is dictating to you instead of the other way around. The mere fact you have to run a video loop (what if you don't have a DVD player?) for 24 hours is not my idea of entertainment. When i get my display it won't be connected to a DVD player because i have the top of the line cable package. I don't need to watch DVD's since i get every movie channel (about 40 altogether). Hard to enjoy what you're watching when you are constantly monitoring your viewing habits.

Not true my simple friend... this is what Panasonic did in their tests. Nothing is saying that running a regular movies for 1-2 hours would not do the same thing. Most people can even watch regular tv while erasing the IR without any problems since the IR will be hard to see. Additionally, these were extreme conditions where the game was left on for 48 hours. If you never do this, why would you need to leave the tv on a loop for 24 hours?
 

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I think you guys are so precautios about this because of the money spent. But, why would any tv manufacturer make a plasma if you had to over worry about burn with games and money(billion dollar enteraiment industries) If people could not use there plasma for these things, people would not buy plasma. Don't forget, ir and burn were big on tube tv's not too long ago(20 years ago) and I bet you guys did not worry as much.
 

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Burn-in isn't an issue only with plasmas, nor is it a problem that's more prominent on plasmas. Maybe 10yrs ago when the panel life was 10-15K hours, but not nowadays.


People need to get re-educated if they're still purchasing their technology based on what was around 10 yrs ago.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr /forum/post/0


This statement is the exact reason some of us are shying away from plasma despite the fact plasma renders the best PQ. I have said this before but it's not the permanent burn in i'm worried about, i know that it can eventually be erased, the problem is you have to run a video loop for 24 hours (using this statement as an example). This means the TV is dictating to you instead of the other way around.

The only compromise that I made for avoiding burn-in on my 58-inch Panny was to have a 100 hr break in period. Just common sense. Since then, I simply don't worry about it. We watch sports with banners, and we do PS3 games for hours at a time. No issue at all. Moreover, there's simply no reason to use a looping DVD to counteract IR. Simply switching to an HD broadcast channel like Discovery HD, which has no permananet logo, will fix it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr /forum/post/0


"This statement is the exact reason some of us are shying away from plasma despite the fact plasma renders the best PQ.

I have to agree, I've been sitting on the HDTV fence for a while waiting for plasma to get to the stage where burn in isn't an issue and so far it's not quite there yet. To class leaving halo on the menu screen as a torture test I find quite laughable. 10-15 Years ago this is the sort of thing that would have easily caused burn in on a CRT but in time this finally got better.


Now not all CRT's are equal in pretty much the same way not all plasma's are the same. From my various observations while sitting on the fence Panasonic seem to have made the best steps in trying to fix the problem, like all phosphor based system's the first few hours are always the time to take it easy, but I shouldn't have to worry about station logo's, black bars or game huds.


With LCD having too many blurry motion issues for my tastes, it's going to be a while till there are OLED sets in the same size / price range and with SED going the way of the Dodo that only leaves plasma. I spent a good amount of time looking at the 50PZ700u the past weekend in the local BB and it certainly had me wanting to get of the fence.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panagurl /forum/post/0


Burn-in isn't an issue only with plasmas, nor is it a problem that's more prominent on plasmas. Maybe 10yrs ago when the panel life was 10-15K hours, but not nowadays.


People need to get re-educated if they're still purchasing their technology based on what was around 10 yrs ago.

I'm sorry, but there is a $8K Pioneer 1080p plasma at my local Magnolia that has had permanent burn in for a couple of months now. I don't need to be re-educated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzznwood /forum/post/0


I spent a good amount of time looking at the 50PZ700u the past weekend in the local BB and it certainly had me wanting to get of the fence.

I have this set (50PZ700u) for about 3 weeks now. One of the best things about this model is that it shows no IR whatsoever. It's actually pretty amazing. The much smaller pixel size in combination with new phosphors eliminate the IR effect completely. I did not even bother to run the break-in DVD. There is no point in breakin-in this set.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr /forum/post/0


"In independent testing (ISF) 3 random plasma sets were left on the menu for Halo 2 for 48 hours. When checked after this torture test all 3 plasma sets showed a "ghost" image of the menu. However, they then ran a video loop for 24 hours and re-checked the sets. The "ghost" image was no longer discernible and the sets appeared to have never suffered from burn-in. This situation has been repeated by others in similar tests."


This statement is the exact reason some of us are shying away from plasma despite the fact plasma renders the best PQ. I have said this before but it's not the permanent burn in i'm worried about, i know that it can eventually be erased, the problem is you have to run a video loop for 24 hours (using this statement as an example). This means the TV is dictating to you instead of the other way around. The mere fact you have to run a video loop (what if you don't have a DVD player?) for 24 hours is not my idea of entertainment. When i get my display it won't be connected to a DVD player because i have the top of the line cable package. I don't need to watch DVD's since i get every movie channel (about 40 altogether). Hard to enjoy what you're watching when you are constantly monitoring your viewing habits.

While temporary image retention can be reversed and burn in cannot, I find it interesting that there is no real discussion regarding the long term effects of uneven phosphor wear (primarily due to the use of black bars).


A few years from now... I anticipate there will be a lot of Forum members howling about the bright/dark areas being displayed on their PDPs... myself included.
 
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