[SeeImperfection]


Hi folks,

4 years ago, I was looking around to buy a Flat Panel Display. There were many LCD options but none that I liked. I looked at many high end LCD panels but my eyes suffered from the following issues:

#1 Colours were not natural. Especially faces were looking off colour, too saturated, well, basically, not natural.

#2 Motion did't look natural. Especially camera panning. I saw artefacts, shocking/stuttering even on some high end panels.

#3 Black didn't look black, it looked grey.

 

So 4 years ago, I ended up getting a 42" Panasonic Plasma TV. Great colour, deep blacks, natural faces, no problems with panning shots motion.

 

I also want to say that I have a 15 year old Sony CRT that has even better colour than my plasma, it has the deep blacks, it has natural faces, and absolutely no problems with motion.

 

All the Sony CRT is lacking, is:

- screen size (this is a 37")

- not very sharp

- no HDMI connection

- consumes lots of energy

 

So the time has come to start looking for another screen to replace the tube. When I go to my local store, I see about 50 LCD panels lined up showing the same Philips Promo HD trailer. The trailer shows a challenging panning sequence that easily makes some displays stand out and leaves others helpless. It's only the more expensive displays (about 1200 Euro's and up) that barely show fluent panning motion, but I can see the panel has to work extremely hard to pull it off.

Colour has improved but still I like my CRT better (more natural).

 

 

My questions are:

#1 Does anyone recognise the issues I listed above with technology 4 years ago?

#2 Is 2014 technology good enough now, regarding these issues?

#3 Is it correct that there are no "cheaper" panels (say below 500 Euros) that can display panning motion accurately?

#4 Am I "overly sensitive" when it comes to motion issues or is this issue widely recognised in this community and does it feel like coming home for me?

#5 How would you suggest I find a decent LCD panel that meets my requirements? Looking for 42 or 46"

#6 Low Energy consumption is important to me.

 

Thanks!

Pieter

 

[SeeImperfection]


Really no opinions at all? Do apologise for the bump.

 

[newz54]

I am no expert.....but you can blame poor source material in showrooms and badly adjusted TV's. The satellite companies (seen in stores) often don't use enough data to prevent bad panning or video hits also. Also you are used to plasmas more natural look. LED's can be adjusted to make them look better than in the stores. Like I said, I am no expert but thought you deserved an answer.

 

[fafrd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeImperfection  /t/1520681/good-time-for-me-to-buy-lcd#post_24431031


Hi folks,

4 years ago, I was looking around to buy a Flat Panel Display. There were many LCD options but none that I liked. I looked at many high end LCD panels but my eyes suffered from the following issues:

#1 Colours were not natural. Especially faces were looking off colour, too saturated, well, basically, not natural.

#2 Motion did't look natural. Especially camera panning. I saw artefacts, shocking/stuttering even on some high end panels.

#3 Black didn't look black, it looked grey.


So 4 years ago, I ended up getting a 42" Panasonic Plasma TV. Great colour, deep blacks, natural faces, no problems with panning shots motion.


I also want to say that I have a 15 year old Sony CRT that has even better colour than my plasma, it has the deep blacks, it has natural faces, and absolutely no problems with motion.


All the Sony CRT is lacking, is:

- screen size (this is a 37")

- not very sharp

- no HDMI connection

- consumes lots of energy


So the time has come to start looking for another screen to replace the tube. When I go to my local store, I see about 50 LCD panels lined up showing the same Philips Promo HD trailer. The trailer shows a challenging panning sequence that easily makes some displays stand out and leaves others helpless. It's only the more expensive displays (about 1200 Euro's and up) that barely show fluent panning motion, but I can see the panel has to work extremely hard to pull it off.

Colour has improved but still I like my CRT better (more natural).



My questions are:

#1 Does anyone recognise the issues I listed above with technology 4 years ago?

#2 Is 2014 technology good enough now, regarding these issues?

#3 Is it correct that there are no "cheaper" panels (say below 500 Euros) that can display panning motion accurately?

#4 Am I "overly sensitive" when it comes to motion issues or is this issue widely recognised in this community and does it feel like coming home for me?

#5 How would you suggest I find a decent LCD panel that meets my requirements? Looking for 42 or 46"

#6 Low Energy consumption is important to me.


Thanks!

Pieter

The fact that you are in Europe makes it more difficult to respond to your questions - may of us have no idea what the market is like over there. I'll take a stab at answering your question #5:


Here in the US, you would want to find the LCD panel with the highest 'native refresh rate' first - you will want a 120Hz refresh rate panel (I suppose 100Hz in Europe) and then with the highest action rate and brightest backlight second.


I don't believe Vizios are available in Europe, but for your requirements here in the US, the 42" 2014 Vizio M Series is $530 (well within your budget): 120Hz native panel with 720Hz Clear Action Rate.


The greatest improvement in terms of reduced motion blur is apparently moving from 60Hz to 120Hz native refresh (50Hz to 100Hz in Europe). A 240Hz native panel (200Hz in Europe) will be incrementally better but will probably take you out of your price range. After finding a 120Hz panel, you want the brightest backlight you can find and the highest action rate you can find so that black frame insertion or a scanning backlight can further reduce the pixel ON time (which results in further reductions to motion blur). Scanning or strobing backlights sacrifice brightness in exchange for reduced motion blur, which is why you want the brightest backlight you can find (more brightness that you can trade off against reduced motion blur).


Good luck.

 

[8mile13]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeImperfection 

#4 Am I "overly sensitive" when it comes to motion issues or is this issue widely recognised in this community and does it feel like coming home for me?

Yes you are. When you watch the best sources, such as HD channels and blu-ray, and use the right settings blur and motion will not be much of a problem on a decent LCd. And no, 500 euro is not nearly enough to get you a decent LCd.


Nevertheless when you are ''overly sensitive'' even some minor blur might annoy you. In that case Plasma would be a better option. When it comes to motion, LCd motion on a 100HZ is good enough for most people (when 3D is a must you need a 200HZ). Plasma motion is slightly better so if LCd motion is not good enough for you, go Plasma. Plasma also has better blacks and Plasma color is more natural which does not mean that LCd color is bad or LCd blacks suck by definition. A decent LCd's color and blacks are good enough. Keep in mind that all those judgements you make mean very little when your TVs are not pro-calibrated.. Besides all this it also might be a technology thing, some are more comfortable with Plasma, others prefer LCd.


You seem to be happy with your 42'' Plasma so best advise seems to be that you get yourself another Plasma. Panasonic ST60 comes to mind ..50''..

 

[SeeImperfection]



Quote:
Originally Posted by newz54  /t/1520681/good-time-for-me-to-buy-lcd#post_24456876


I am no expert.....but you can blame poor source material in showrooms and badly adjusted TV's. The satellite companies (seen in stores) often don't use enough data to prevent bad panning or video hits also. Also you are used to plasmas more natural look. LED's can be adjusted to make them look better than in the stores. Like I said, I am no expert but thought you deserved an answer.

Well, actually most LCD's perform poorly but some perform reasonably well. Those are the 1200+ Euros LCD TVs. Same source, setting apart the good from the bad. And when I say bad they're really bad, with huge artefacts that linger for almost a second sometimes.

 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1520681/good-time-for-me-to-buy-lcd#post_24456933



The fact that you are in Europe makes it more difficult to respond to your questions - may of us have no idea what the market is like over there. I'll take a stab at answering your question #5: […]


Good luck.

Good advice, thank you. I'll have another look at what's available here.

 

 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13  /t/1520681/good-time-for-me-to-buy-lcd#post_24457633



Yes you are. When you watch the best sources, such as HD channels and blu-ray, and use the right settings blur and motion will not be much of a problem on a decent LCd. And no, 500 euro is not nearly enough to get you a decent LCd.

 
OK that is what I kinda suspected...
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13  /t/1520681/good-time-for-me-to-buy-lcd#post_24457633


Nevertheless when you are ''overly sensitive'' even some minor blur might annoy you. In that case Plasma would be a better option. […] You seem to be happy with your 42'' Plasma so best advise seems to be that you get yourself another Plasma. Panasonic ST60 comes to mind ..50''..
Well, you see, the problem there is that the TV I want to buy will be on for many more hours than the Plasma in our bedroom. And that would lead to a lot of energy consumption. So although I would probably really like a Plasma, it's going to have to be an LCD or maybe OLED.