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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm leaving AVS too. It has nothing to do with this split, the timing's just right.


I'm a little fed up with the overmoderation going on here. There's really no reason to close or delete all the threads or messages that are getting closed or deleted. If you don't find the discussion interesting, you know to avoid that thread. Big deal.


I know this forum is owned by the AVS folks, and they can legally do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean it's right by the community. They have plenty of opportunity to capitalize on their efforts without having to resort to censoring users and other dealers. Ads, stickies heralding AVS specials, etc., are all legitimate ways of recouping their investments. If we want to discuss affordable ways of acquiring the products we're interested in, let us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ray
I find it a bit ironic that if it wasnt for the AVS forum none of you would be reaping the benefits of the AE 100 because you would not know about it or have the ability to gain FREE knowledge on its use and set up
I think this is a common, if very misguided, opinion. AVS "created" few HT enthusiasts, they merely provided the most popular place to congregate. When the provider "goes bad", this leads to an unfortunate situation where the momentum keeps it in business, not the virtues of the provider.


What I'm trying to say is that if AVSforum wasn't here, we'd all be at hometheaterforum, or ***************, or some other place that doesn't exist because the market has already been cornered.


Alex
 

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Any particular reason for making such an obviously redundant thread?


edit: oops, I didn't notice it was locked./edit


Although I don't agree with it, at least you did provide reasoning, unlike the top poster of the other one.


I believe that this is a "mountain out of a molehill" situation. So far in all this whining no one has come up with a reasonable alternative that I've read.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander
Because the other one was locked. (surprise!)
Well, what does one expect when the thread was nearing an exclusive *****-out?


I guess this is a no-win situation. I also think that people are reading way too much into Alan's posts concerning the subject, applying possibly imaginary negative conotations to every word he used. It seems he is trying to accomodate people, but no matter what AVS does, someone's toes are going to be stepped on. So far I haven't seen a credible alternative offered since the b!tching started.
 

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If you actually read what Alan said, he was getting too many COMPLAINTS from users about dealer spam. There's also the issue of dealers posing/acting like end-users.


Frankly, I think the ideal discussion is end-users with those with financial interest clearly delineated and still kept from actively soliciting. That is exactly what they are trying to enforce and I applaud them for it.
 

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JeffDM,

Anyone who is literate can see the words in gold & blue. No need to read anything into what was stated. If you want to be an apple-polisher fine, but there were many valid concerns made and several alternatives offered.

Just because you feel a loyalty to AVS (remember I put my $$$ where my mouth is) don't ignore the obvious.

Regards,

Greg
 

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Quote:
I'm a little fed up with the overmoderation going on here.
Actually, the moderation is one of the things I like about this forum. It keeps the nut density down and keeps the discussion slightly on topic.


My guess is that less than 1% of posts require intervention and that 90% of the intervention is because of flaming.
 

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Sometimes in my business we make decisions that we know might be unpoplular with certain people. If we have given the matter due consideration, and we think the decision is reasonable, we often conclude that, if people wish to leave based on the decision, that perhaps that is the best thing for the business. Thus, if people wish to leave AVS Forum based on the decision to split the digital theater forums or the rationale for the decision, perhaps that is best for everybody. No offense intended.
 

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Alex said

"What I'm trying to say is that if AVSforum wasn't here, we'd all be at hometheaterforum, or ***************, or some other place that doesn't't exist because the market has already been cornered. "


Alex


Hi

Have to disagree with you I have been here since 1998-1999 (under a different user name) There was only one forum that talked projectors

and that was the Hi-Rez forum

The only other popular forums then were

DT and HTF and there was little or no talk of front projection systems

I also believe that AVS spawned many of the forums that you speak of today and I truly Believe that this forum has steered many to the Front Projection scene.I still see nothing in Alans post that I would be offended by Mabie I am just a thick headed dude, I dont know

PEACE :)

Ray
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gregoire
Anyone who is literate can see the words in gold & blue. No need to read anything into what was stated. If you want to be an apple-polisher fine, but there were many valid concerns made and several alternatives offered.

Just because you feel a loyalty to AVS (remember I put my $$$ where my mouth is) don't ignore the obvious.
Out of curiosity, are you trying to be insulting? I am not insulted, but I don't see how I am being an apple polisher. I don't have any special loyalty to AVS or those that run it. I have been on both sides of the equation in lists and forums in the past, so maybe that insight has biased me somewhat, mostly because of the dynamics of the situations, it really doesn't seem to change regardless of the topic.


I have read a great deal of the posts, I am simply stating how I see things, and that is that so many people are making a mountain out of molehills. If there really WERE viable alternatives produced, I certainly don't remember reading them.


I have seen this sort of thing in many interest fields unrelated to HT, and frankly, I am sick of it, it looks stupid regardless of what the topic is. Too many people taking things personally, too many people abusing the forum, too many harsh or rude messages, posts clearly made in the wrong topic, obviously duplicate threads even in throughrough comparison, then there's the dealer/PM issue. The signal to noise was getting really bad, and I believe that the AE-100 issue was the camel that broke the straw.


I also disagree that the forum is overmoderated. If it wasn't as moderated I think that this forum would be worse. The threads that get locked are those where people get out of hand (read: flames), or deviated way too far from the original post's topic. I do disagree with the thread deleting thing, but then, they aren't out to please me in everything. Nor should they try to please everyone all the time, as that is impossible.


Oh, also, I switched to the black & white color scheme, blue & gold doesn't work well with me, that is the very thing that was making things hard to read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Ray
I truly Believe that this forum has steered many to the Front Projection scene.I still see nothing in Alans post that I would be offended by
I would say that the decreasing cost and increasing quality, not to mention decreasing size, has been the primary driver behind front projection popularity.


I'm not offended by Alan's post or the split per se, but I do get a little ticked when I see posts like "I just got my projector from **********, and the service was great. [talk about projector, blah blah]". I might know what's under those asterisks, but I think that obscuring the name does a disservice to those who might be in the market for a projector.


I can also see the need to keep dealer spamming down, but if it's in direct reply to a user's query, or if users are just discussing where to buy from, I think it's of interest to everybody.


Alex
 

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Just my 2 C's, but you really have to consider the most common use of these forums is for potential consumers getting information. The reason we're using forums instead of manufacturers web sites is that we can get a sense of each product warts and all from people who use them or have the ability to get more 1st hand info than we can.


Personally I would rather wade through nutcase postings than have these forums sanitized and steered by the shifting agendas of the board operators (not to mean secret agendas). The freer people are to express their own beliefs about products they've used or investigated, the easier it is to do meaningful research.


I totally agree with policies that restrict personal attacks, unfair influence by manufacturers, etc. since I think those also defeat the usefulness of opinions expressed.


Oh last thing, I totally agree that any commercial interests should not steer policy in the forums. Banners, announcements, and other forms of online advertising are fine, but once commercial interests influence the content of the board, the board loses credibility and usefulness IMO.
 

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How about this idea. Let there be 2 models for AVS


1) A subscription model in which you can determine how much censorship you want


2) A free model where Alan Gouger determines the censorship and trys to sell you his own products.


People would have a choice. Right now AVS is totally free so you cannot complain about Alan trying to squeeze some blood out of the AVS stone. Everyone acts likes we are all 60's hippies. Alan has to make a living too- why should other parasitic dealers ride on his back.


Unfortunately all his work will probably go unrewarded financially by the many individuals here who resent having to pay one thin dime for anything on the net. Alex - you really seem like a bit of a ( censored by me)
 

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charlies


You must have esp. We are working on just that.

Its taking a little more time than anticipated. Waiting on the attorneys

regarding legal policy's.


Stay tuned!
 

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My guess is that Alan could put a little language into the sign-up that would allow him to go after unscrupulous dealers.


I hate to see it come to this, but what's his alternative?
 

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Well, I usually agree with Alan in the changes he has made to this forum, but this time I think it was overkill. I would have first tried requiring threads to be specific as to price range or projector brand, which would make it easier to jump over the budget stuff, if that is not your interest.


As for the business of not letting other suppliers use his board for free advertising and selling, I'm behind Alan all the way. AVS is not a charity or government agency, it's a business.


Dan
 

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FORUM (latin, akin to foris, foras, out of doors)


1. A market place or public place in Rome, where causes were judicially tried, and orations delivered to the people.


AVS= the judge

forum members= the people


I have to say I have notices a gradual change of atmosphere in the forum this days. I am not disputing whatsoever the need to keep other vendors out and the need for Alan to protect his sales.

What I disagree is the "business look" that the our pics must have, the wiping out of the avatars, the threads pulled because they were funny... it just seems to me things are not as lighthearted as they used to be...


At the end of the day, I like funny things, and I think that if you learn laughing, you learn quickly and more effectively that if you learn with a "serious" attitude. AVS is a place of learning, and it could be a funny place as well, I don't think the two things are mutually excluding...


No offense Alan, just my honest opinion...
 

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Just as example of what Alan faces-


I am organising a fat loss contest at work over the next month- basically you sign up-put $40 into the kitty and then the one who loses the highest % of weight wins. A nice simple premise.


There are 10 competitors and each wants to put in his pennies worth-why don't we have second and third prizes? why dont we extend the contest by 2 months? Can I wear a gstring to be measured in? why dont we....................and so on.


Its my fat loss contest join up or start your own- leave out the 'helpful' suggestions.


Either support Alan or start your own board. Its that simple. I don't like a few aspects of the board but generally I am entertained. Maybe a 'suggestions box would be in order'. In any case stop the offended whining.
 

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And by the way Alexander saying the "provider has gone bad" is extremely offensive in my view.It is that type of sly provocative statement slipped into a thread that causes it to be closed. How would you feel if someone said you "had gone bad" as if Alan was some kind of corrupt facist.


After all the enjoyment we get here how nice is that?
 

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From Charlies:


"Either support Alan or start your own board. Its that simple. I don't like a few aspects of the board but generally I am entertained. Maybe a 'suggestions box would be in order'. In any case stop the offended whining."


... just as I say that things are not as lighthearted as they used to be.... ;)
 
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