AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 85 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The leading British magazine What Hi-Fi? has published a group test (face-off) including the JVC DLA-HD1, the Panasonic PT-AE1000E and the Sony VPL-VW50.


The Panasonic and JVC were neck and neck with the Panasonic edging out the JVC "where image crispness is concerned".

The JVC product "bears close comparison to the very best on the market".

The Sony Pearl rendering of "standard-def content or tv broadcasts take the shine off the Sony's image".


I think there is circumstantial evidence that the projector manufactures are tweaking their production units as they learn more. Similar to a new automobile advice: don't ever buy from the initial production runs (note to Bob).



I just read the article at the bookstore today. Because there was already enough evidence, I ordered a Panasonic 1000 several days ago. There may not be too much reason to continue waiting for the JVC, especially considering the price differential.


Brightness is not expected to be an issue ) with my 119" high-gain Da-Lite retro High-Power screen (note to Joe now).


Side note: don't fall for the coming curved screen fad. Flat screens are better!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,554 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


The leading British magazine What Hi-Fi? has published a group test (face-off) including the JVC DLA-HD1, the Panasonic PT-AE1000E and the Sony VPL-VW50.


The Panasonic and JVC were neck and neck with the Panasonic edging out the JVC "where image crispness is concerned".

The JVC product "bears close comparison to the very best on the market".

The Sony Pearl rendering of "standard-def content or tv broadcasts take the shine off the Sony's image".


I think there is circumstantial evidence that the projector manufactures are tweaking their production units as they learn more. Similar to a new automobile advice: don't ever buy from the initial production runs (note to Bob).



I just read the article at the bookstore today. Because there was already enough evidence, I ordered a Panasonic 1000 several days ago. There may not be too much reason to continue waiting for the JVC, especially considering the price differential.


Brightness is not expected to be an issue ) with my 119" high-gain Da-Lite retro High-Power screen (note to Joe now).


Side note: don't fall for the coming curved screen fad. Flat screens are better!

What Hi Fi is a bit of a standing joke amongst AVers in the UK. HCC is a bit (but just a bit) more respected with regard to home cinema gear.


In the same issue What Hi Fi also claim this of a £70 1m Monster HDMI cable -


"Colours are vivid, and images solid and three dimensional with good depth of field. It's almost entirely free of any noise, and only the occasional touch of smearing with motion and fractional soft edges mark it down against the very best HDMI cables at this price point"



I also like the bit about were they claim the dynamic iris does not effect the intensity of bright objects in dark scenes.


The best review of a PJ is one you do with your own eyes.



Dazzer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx /forum/post/0


What Hi Fi is a bit of a standing joke amongst AVers in the UK. HCC is more respected with regard to home cinema gear.


In the same issue What Hi Fi also claim this of a £70 1m Monster HDMI cable -


"Colours are vivid, and images solid and three dimensional with good depth of field. It's almost entirely free of any noise, and only the occasional touch of smearing with motion and fractional soft edges mark it down against the very best HDMI cables at this price point"



I also like the bit about were they claim the dynamic iris does not effect the intensity of bright objects in dark scenes.


The best review of a PJ is one you do with your own eyes.



Dazzer

Ain't no one perfect. I think overall they are very good from what I am able to personally verify.

Grounding and shielding have a tremendous effect on the sound quality of a system. But that is another subject.


Top Ultimate AV reviewer Tom Norton's evaluation:

"I've spent dozens of additional hours watching the Panasonic projector since we posted my Short Take report three weeks ago. I've used it to review several HD DVD and Blu-ray discs. I've compared it to other projectors (see below). The more the more I watch it the more it impresses me."

Dark scenes were convincing, the dreaded "gray fog" was almost never a factor, and the subjective contrast remained consistently good on both dark and bright material.

Its color reproduction is outstanding, although I definitely recommend a professional calibration. Its blacks are near state-of-the-art for a digital projector, (but again, only with the dynamic iris engaged). Its detail, while perhaps not as striking as some projectors we've seen, never left me wishing for more. And I never saw any digital artifacts.


The Sony Pearl has now left my studio and was not available for a direct comparison, but my feeling is that the PT-AE1000U is slightly more detailed, and also better at maintaining contrast in brighter scenes."


So the Panasonics qualities grow on many reviewers as time goes on. That my friends should always be a top priority for anyone, as you always look forward to the next show. Get your tickets!

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/vi...ae/index1.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,039 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


I just read the article at the bookstore today. Because there was already enough evidence, I ordered a Panasonic 1000 several days ago. There may not be too much reason to continue waiting for the JVC, especially considering the price differential.

Big time price differential! Point taken.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,715 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


I think there is circumstantial evidence that the projector manufactures are tweaking their production units as they learn more.

I think this is very true, particularly when a manufacturer comes out with something really new like a DLP manufacturer going to 1080p or JVC coming out with new panels. They tend to get better over time.


As far as the shootout results go, the performance of these projectors are getting so close that a lot of these shootouts depend on the variability of the individual projectors used. As an example, I've measured RS1s as low as 10300:1 on/off and I suspect that if someone were to use that machine vs the review machine with 19000:1 that gregr was given that it might affect shootout results. The same could be true for other projector attributes such as MC and CA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,554 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Ain't no one perfect. I think overall they are very good from what I am able to personally verify.

Grounding and shielding have a tremendous effect on the sound quality of a system. But that is another subject.

As I said the best review is your own eyes. I've read many reviews of products but to my eyes they haven't lived up to expectation. At the end of the day if you have viewed both and prefer the Panasonic that's all that maters. My eyes preferred the JVC.



Dazzer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,457 Posts
I'm sure there's a lot of material where the differences are slim. What material was used for the test though? I bet it wasn't Dark City or Sin City. After all, you're paying 50% more for that last 10%, but it might be an important 10% to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
Cine4Home has started posting its review of the Panasonic PT-AE1000 (the second part has just been added) and the reviewer was quite impressed with the "waveform monitor" feature that is unique to this Panasonic model; He mentioned how useful that feature is for correctly adjusting contrast, brightness and even primary/secondary colors.

After finished reading it, i was surprised as to how few comments were written in reviews of the same model done here in the USA about this "waveform monitor" feature....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,314 Posts
What HiFi are a joke. They are bad enough when it comes to audio let alone AV.

They spent at least two years telling everyone that s-video was better than RGB and that PAL60 was inferior to NTSC ...with reference to component!


They were even positive about using magical green marker pens on the outside edges of CDs .


HCC are frankly just as bad.

There are no good Hifi or AV mags in the UK. Use the internet instead.


Honestly its simply not worth the trees. Ignore
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,445 Posts
Panasonic can be a fine projector but D6 projectors do lakc contrast performance, period. At least comapared with HD1. If your environment has ambient light this difference might not manifest on screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I like What-Hi Fi's style and opinions. There British perspective is usually more insightful and colorful than what we Americans are used too. For example they did fault the Panasonic for its looks by stating:

"Hit every branch of the ugly tree on the way down".



Continuing:

"The HD=DVD of Mission Impossible: III looks thrilling in the Panasonic hands: pictures are clean, clear and stable and virtually free of noise. Contrast is excellent, allowing bright whites to exist alongside inky blacks without fuss; motion is tracked smoothly and separated admirably. Skin tones and textures lifelike and fine detail is laid out explicitly. Without question, the Panasonic provides the crispest, most natural HD pictures in this test, whether 1080p HD dvd and Blu-ray films or 1080i.

The news is still good for standard-def DVD ... the PT-AE1000E retains its excellent color palette and businesslike ability with motion. So taken have we been with this bravura picture performance, we almost forgotten to mention that the Panasonic offers sturdy build, fine ergonomics and speedy, painless set-up."


Notice how they rate the conveying of motion: an area which American reviewers could improve.

Both the Brits and the Yanks (here Ultimate AV) make an unheard of observation for a dynamic iri based system: allowing bright whites to exist alongside inky blacks without fuss.


Another British magazine chimes in:
http://www.t3.co.uk/reviews/enterta...sonic_pt-ae1000

"this is the best 1080p projector out there." Get out the hip boots?



It is well known that ED (extra-low dispersion) glass color quality is superior to regular glass for certain lens elements. The Panasonic uses two ED glass elements.

The 14-Bit processing helps faithfully reproduce even subtle hues and brightness variations. (smile next time when reading of those hugely expensive 10 bit banding-challenged stand-alone video processors).


Here is another:
http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertai...c-pt-ae1000-whc

"And, for all their naturalism, colors sometimes lack some of the vibrancy seen on one or two rivals."

Does goosed color == vibrancy == addicting?



So like are the British getting an improved version of the Panasonic? Remember the Panasonic rated quite poorly when first introduced here in the states. A reputation which it is still trying to overcome. Its time to forget those six months ago.

My take is that the traditional Japanese attention to detail is paying off as the factory has learned how to align the new and complex optical system.


At the very least this Panasonic is nipping on the tails of the JVC. Is the JVC worth 40% more? We shall see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,554 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


I like What-Hi Fi's style and opinions. There British perspective is usually more insightful and colorful than what we Americans are used too. For example they did fault the Panasonic for its looks by stating:

"Hit every branch of the ugly tree on the way down".



At the very least this Panasonic is nipping on the tails of the JVC. Is the JVC worth 40% more? We shall see.

To my eyes yes



Sound like you've convined youself so best of luck.



Dazzer
 

·
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
·
8,462 Posts
Hey, whatever you want to believe is fine with me, reincarnate. I'm just glad that you finally broke down and purchased your first front projector!


As far as contrast and DI operation of the Panasonic, I wouldn't expect miracles. Unless Panasonic totally redesigned the DI that they used in the AX100, it will be distracting at best, as you will be able to see its operation when quickly moving from bright to dark scenes. Hey, come to think of it, weren't you one of the big critics of the dynamic iris in general, or is just of Sony's DI, head and shoulders the best DI in the business? Hopefully you will get lucky and the 1000 DI will be fixed by now.


Depending on the placement of the PJ in relation to your High Power, that should be a good match for the Panny. But when the lamp is new, don't expect much in the way of blacks. Since you don't have any basis for comparison (not owning any other front projector), then you will probably be happy. If not, don't worry, the projector will be only half as bright before you know it!
Quote:
advice: don't ever buy from the initial production runs (note to Bob).

Yeah, that's true if you bought the JVC. But there is always a tradeoff depending on how long you wait. The earlier in production, the better the chances of getting buggy software and unrefined production methods, but the later in production units are that much closer to becoming obsolete technology. I haven't heard anything, but I would fully expect Panasonic to announce a replacement for the 1000 by about August when they have figured out how to fix the things that they couldn't just change easily in current production.


Anyway, I am looking forward to reading your personal HONEST review of the Panny once you've had enough time to fully calibrate and evaluate it properly. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,314 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


The 14-Bit processing helps faithfully reproduce even subtle hues and brightness variations. (smile next time when reading of those hugely expensive 10 bit banding-challenged stand-alone video processors).

.


Which is a perfect example of the sort of meaningless piffle that betrays their complete lack of knowledge about such things.


Whilst I regard What Hifi and HCC as being fit only for firelighting and lining cat-litter trays I wouldn't even regard T3 as being useful for such purposes.


By all means buy the panny : especially if you can't afford the JVC. I'm sure its a great machine for the money ( as long as you get the price down). Just please don't use these shabby publications as your primary source for opinion forming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,007 Posts
i think in fairness the pany is quite a good projector if you can manage to work the low light output. I viewed a recent model and i cant say it blew me away but it throws a pleasent image for a small screen. the JVC and the Pearl both seem a bit better to my eyes, but as has been said there is variance from unit to unit which makes these shootout subjective at best, but as others have said the UK magazines sold out a while ago with the last good mag (HCC) following the trend and taking the $$$ rather than giving honest reviews. interent rules if you want 'real' imformation and not product PR franchise agreements (well thats if you can cut thru the crap).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As more consumers buy from the Internet the probability of undue influence being exerted by manufactures or their agents grows.

(How does anyone know that I have not been corrupted?)


For example I just purchased a Canon 710IS compact camera that was top-rated by some serious photography sites. It image quality is both noisy and blurry. I got burned. Oh well - no non-defective returns allowed.


But here with the Panasonic I'm covered with a 90 day no-questions-asked return policy. Perhaps Bob will return his Sharp 720p and upgrade to 1080p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0


As far as the shootout results go, the performance of these projectors are getting so close that a lot of these shootouts depend on the variability of the individual projectors used. As an example, I've measured RS1s as low as 10300:1 on/off and I suspect that if someone were to use that machine vs the review machine with 19000:1 that gregr was given that it might affect shootout results. The same could be true for other projector attributes such as MC and CA.

True, there is the variability of the individual projectors. However an even larger variation among opinions can be traced and attributed to our screens.


Gray screens were introduced many years ago in an attempt to compensate for poor black levels of legacy technology. Since then all the projector technologies have greatly improved their panel contrast and black levels. Today, it is most remarkable that the LCD based Panasonic 1000 has virtually no black level limitations (with the iris engaged). Most assumed LCD technological was at a dead-end rather than being a fork in the road.

Simply stated, grey screens are unable to reproduce a white color. As an experiment, I put the expensive leading grey screen next to a flat white matte screen so that each material displayed half of the picture. The grey screen image was darker and less punchy. It literally sucked the life out of the picture. Lastly was no contest after seeing a grey contaminated white next to true white-white. (The fact is we don't see grey white in real-life.) Therefore grey screens cannot be recommended except with legacy technology.

LCD projectors are still at a disadvantage because their tiny panels can only handle a limited heat load from the nearby very hot UHP lamp. (Witness the brighter 720p Panasonic Ax100 having temperature issues). DLP color wheels designs also filter out a large portion of the light (a few trade brightness for poor contrast). So today almost all projectors designed for home theaters are still quite dim.


So what is the solution? Is a matte white screen still recommended?

Yes but only for small screens (less than 90). Luckily the new technology retro-reflection surfaces come to our rescue. The Da-Lite company has introduced their Hi-Power screen material which has no drawbacks when used in the typical home theater environment. The screens microscopically aligned glass particles make efficient use of the limited projector light while rejecting ambient light. An up to 2.8 times brighter free-lunch and an inexpensive one at that!


For best results only use the rather dim Panasonic with a High Power screen. If you want to be unimpressed then go ahead and use that old grey screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
I just ended my 3-month "trial" of the Panasonic.


I don't have a lot to compare it to since I was upgrading from my HS10 (which I couldn't have loved more) and of course the Panny blew it away in non-bright scenes.


The reason I ended up returning it was that when running my PC through it (HDMI) I noticed that I couldn't get the entire screen in crisp focus at the same time; when the center was sharp the left side was a little fuzzy, etc. Now the video looked perfect to my eyes, and I never would have noticed it without the PC, but since running my computer through it (for apps not just video) was important to me I reluctantly took it back.


Also I wonder if the smartscreen took some of the overall sharpness away; I like sharpness.


Anway, the picture really was outstanding. Now maybe my RS-1 will actually arrive one say so I can compare that as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,628 Posts
Your talking about "Smoothscreen" making the image seem a little softer. I noticed that on the Panny PT-AX100U.
 
1 - 20 of 85 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top