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They both look good to me on my 4k display. I can't see a difference in your two pics tbh. Are you upscaling 1080p or something? When I SBS my official Kodi VideoPlayer pic with whatever your player pic is, I can clearly read Lewis - Watney on the black badge in the lower center of his vest but I can't make it out on yours. Same with the black WARNING sticker next to it and the LOCK V OPEN next to that. Under LOCK V OPEN are <------------- -------------> too. I can't make out the digital numbers on the watch gizmo either. Your pics are also much dimmer than mine although when posting them here, tone mapping doesn't carry over the same as viewing on our native displays. Same with other users checking out these pics. Depends what they are viewing them on afaik.
In both cases it's the same Blu-ray rip that I have on a hard drive. Bit for matches what was on disc. Upscaling to 4K.

I can definitely see a difference in the images. The stars on the flag on his shoulder are very slightly more detailed with the madVR image. On the watch on his left hand, I can see that the mad VR does a better job of displaying the numbers and I believe that 13.5 and 35.0 on his watch. Both are pretty visible but the main VR just has a little more detail.

the mesh that's beige color on his left sleeve has slightly more detail on the mad VR image.

I see what you're saying about the lower part of his vest. I cannot make it out in my images at least not as clearly as you're describing on your side. Although I can make out the lock v open.

I'm using the Nvidia Plex exoplayer on the shield. And the madVR I'm just using jriver Media center which is integrated with madVR so I'm using madVR player.

Thanks for taking time to assess. Then again I am using straight up ngu Sharp... And really, I don't have any of the madVR edge enhancements things or post processing turned on because everything I read indicated that I didn't really need it with a Blu-ray source.

-T
 

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They both look good to me on my 4k display. I can't see a difference in your two pics tbh. Are you upscaling 1080p or something? When I SBS my official Kodi VideoPlayer pic with whatever your player pic is, I can clearly read Lewis - Watney on the black badge in the lower center of his vest but I can't make it out on yours. Same with the black WARNING sticker next to it and the LOCK V OPEN next to that. Under LOCK V OPEN are <------------- -------------> too. I can't make out the digital numbers on the watch gizmo either. Your pics are also much dimmer than mine although when posting them here, tone mapping doesn't carry over the same as viewing on our native displays. Same with other users checking out these pics. Depends what they are viewing them on afaik.
Any chance you can post your settings? Maybe I'm lacking some settings.

-T
 

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I have no settings to share with you. I use official Kodi Matrix internal native VideoPlayer. (not DSPlayer or any other fork) There is no madVR involved. When I do use madVR with an external player for 4k, I simply passthrough. They look identical, so I simply use Kodi. Besides, Kodi offers menus for iso's. There is nothing to improve for a 1:1 4k rip and I don't need to tone map because I'm not using a PJ that needs help. I'm using a decent panel. For upscaling 540p, 720p, 1080p, I do not use Kodi except to seamless launch MPC-BE with madVR and LAV Filters because the upscaling is superior to the Kodi VideoPlayer. Because you use a PJ, you more than likely need tone map help. Folks are trying to tell you, The Shield does not tone map as good as madVR. You are trying to inform that The Shield does tone map as good as madVR. Not using either, I can't comment except to compare some screenshots and critic your timeframe comparisons.
 

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Because you use a PJ, you more than likely need tone map help. Folks are trying to tell you, The Shield does not tone map as good as madVR. You are trying to inform that The Shield does tone map as good as madVR. Not using either, I can't comment except to compare some screenshots and critic your timeframe comparisons.
Oh, we have a misunderstanding. I am aware that madVR will run circles around anything The Shield can do in terms of tone mapping.

I'm talking purely upscale Blu-ray 2K to 4k. No tone mapping at all. I'm just using the rec 709 color space.

I made a comment earlier in the thread about the shield rivaling the upscaling abilities of madVR. @markmon1 quoted that post, and here we are today :)

-T
 

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@T-Bone

Do you use CPU integrated graphics or a dedicated card?
AMD RX 580 4GB Vram. My processing at the moment only takes about 18 milliseconds per frame for 1080p 24p content upscaling to 4K. So I have room to boost performance. But once I go over 30 milliseconds, it sounds like a wind turbine with that fan blowing.

I have not had a chance to look at the settings that @chros73 linked.

-T
 
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Do you guys think I can use HDR passthrough, just tone mapping the brightness, do some custom curves, highlight recovery set to medium with an AMD 4650G only?
Meaning, no dedicated GPU.

Is NGU perhaps even possible?
4K60, no problem?

Wait for 5700G?
No need, 4650G plenty fast?

4650G is quite fast with the correct RAM, planning to get 4000MHz with low clocked latency.

 

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Do you guys think I can use HDR passthrough, just tone mapping the brightness, do some custom curves, highlight recovery set to medium with an AMD 4650G only?
Meaning, no dedicated GPU.
Finding test results for the that chip against a discrete card is tough, but for reference I use a pretty weak 5500XT 4GB card and can do:
  • NGU Sharp High image doubling for 1080p/23 & 1080p/24
  • Lanczos 4 Taps for chroma upscaling (the better ones take too much rendering power and so I've compromised here)
  • Tone Map with Pixel Shaders (No Highlight Recovery) for 2160p/23 & 2160p/24 (I have no 4K/60 content)
  • No Compromise (except for scale chroma separately)
  • Error Diffusion for Dithering
  • Full 3D MVC 1080p/23
  • No other enhancements
I hover around 30-35 milliseconds rendering with a 40-41ms vsync cap.

I think you should consider whether or not you're planning to eventually get a discrete card, and then maybe buy a used minimum GPU as a stop-gap.
APU's are great for small form factor, but you probably want something better and are just caught in a bad market now.
 
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the brighter image is massively sharper.
this is something i don't except from NGU because it seem to be out of focus but something the shield "scaler" is randomly doing.
but the real issue is one is using the wrong colorspace. i know the shield was doing this on release but is it really so bad it still can't even use the correct colorspace so please make sure it is up to date.
the ares3 text has the typical issue seem with NGU so i guess the brighter one is NGU as you labelled them.
the darker image has some artifacts which may even be chroma bleeding.
 

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I think you should consider whether or not you're planning to eventually get a discrete card, and then maybe buy a used minimum GPU as a stop-gap.
APU's are great for small form factor, but you probably want something better and are just caught in a bad market now.
Thank you very much, insightful inputs, appreciated!
I could compare against Vega 11, from where the 4650G supposedly excels, but your 5500XT seem miles ahead:
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-RX-5500-XT-vs-AMD-RX-Vega-11-Ryzen-iGPU/4060vsm401440

I'm picking HDPLEX H5 for chassis, so there's plenty room for a dedicated GPU down the road if temptation were to arise, only using a Mini-ITX motherboard.
Allows for 95W of TDP from the GPU, so there's a bit of leeway for passive cooling, but for the real benefit of a dedicated card, fans are inevitable.
What I fear the most is the increased heat output from a dedicated solution, just an APU is quite appealing, undoubtedly I think I can settle on some compromised settings.
Nevertheless, starting with a CPU with integrated graphics is perhaps a great first step, doesn't cost more than a CPU without an iGPU, so you know...

The real key here however, is not converting the image to SDR, that'll definitely require some power, did you say you passed through HDR as is, or converted to SDR?
 

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The real key here however, is not converting the image to SDR, that'll definitely require some power, did you say you passed through HDR as is, or converted to SDR?
I do the full conversion for my PJ. The only thing that eats up a lot of noticeable resources is Highlight Recovery so I don't enable that.
I use the Phanteks Shift Air ITX case with speaker mesh material on the sides and the GPU loves it. Even at 35ms render I don't hear the fans.
3118857
 

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I have no settings to share with you. I use official Kodi Matrix internal native VideoPlayer. (not DSPlayer or any other fork) There is no madVR involved. When I do use madVR with an external player for 4k, I simply passthrough. They look identical, so I simply use Kodi. Besides, Kodi offers menus for iso's. There is nothing to improve for a 1:1 4k rip and I don't need to tone map because I'm not using a PJ that needs help. I'm using a decent panel. For upscaling 540p, 720p, 1080p, I do not use Kodi except to seamless launch MPC-BE with madVR and LAV Filters because the upscaling is superior to the Kodi VideoPlayer. Because you use a PJ, you more than likely need tone map help. Folks are trying to tell you, The Shield does not tone map as good as madVR. You are trying to inform that The Shield does tone map as good as madVR. Not using either, I can't comment except to compare some screenshots and critic your timeframe comparisons.
Brazen,

I was hopeful that Kodi v19 Matrix or the latest v20 nightly was an alternative to my constant, tried and true use of MPC-HC with MadVR since it can play Blu-ray folders, but I can't seem to get it to passthrough audio no matter what variation or combination of Audio output device or Passthrough output device I choose. I am running Windows 10 which is current on updates.

Any help you can give will be very much appreciated, if possible.
 

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AMD RX 580 4GB Vram. My processing at the moment only takes about 18 milliseconds per frame for 1080p 24p content upscaling to 4K. So I have room to boost performance. But once I go over 30 milliseconds, it sounds like a wind turbine with that fan blowing.

I have not had a chance to look at the settings that @chros73 linked.

-T
Interesting. I used the settings on the linked pages from @chros73 for 1080p sources... and I did get much better detail when upscaling a 2K bluray rip to 4K.

I can now clearly see the "LOCK V OPEN" on his lower left chest. and the "WARNING" on the tag on his chest has a bit more detail. There is more detail on the steel frame of his watch. The bad news is that it is over-sharpened (if you can see it) on straight lines like the ones on his chest, and the light on his right side of the Helmut. Not visible from 13.5 feet, but from a several feet from screen.

I think the items that did the most were processing -> image enhancements:
  • crispen edges = check and 1.2
  • enhance detail = checked and 2.0

Also, render times hit 26 msec, and the PC became a space heater... loud fan. Not really noticeable during a normal viewing, but was audible during dialog and quiet scenes.

New image with enhancements:

MadVR is clearly better than nvidia shield pro AI upscaling. As much as I hate to say it, I did not have it configured for optimum results (not too proud to admit when I am wrong). I'll see myself out :)

-T

Edit:
two images from my post a page back for reference so this post is a one-stop shop for all three images:
 
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Quoted wrong message.
 

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I can only generate 4 Mpixels, so each image is reduced equally on my gear.
It's really not reduced equally. There's just a significant lack of detail that can't be displayed and that's the main difference in a 4K image vs a non-4K image. I'm not saying that pixel shift provides no benefit over 1080p because it does. But there's actually more benefit from pixel shift to 4K than 1080p to pixel shift.

You may be able to get a really good upscale test if you had a really high quality 480p source and tried to upscale it to 1080p on both devices.
 

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Except that it displays a popup asking you to upgrade Adobe Flash, which is no longer supported. Malware?
I know nothing about that, sorry, I use AdGuard for Firefox, excellent popup/adblocker, don't see nothing like that.
 

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trying again... I think I have the same timestamp now. these are full upload/downloads. The file names give it away :)


Shield AI upscale High.
MadVR Luma NGU Sharp High, Chroma NGU Anti-Alias Medium.

There is a difference.

-T
I get a Malware warning when clicking on those links. Malicious Domain Request reported by Symantec Endpoint Protection, Enterprise edition.

The site has Ads that redirect which is the reason for the malware warning. This appears to be a recent issue after the change from .org to .cc.
 

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I get a Malware warning when clicking on those links.
I did not get those warnings. I do run Windows 10 and it's fully up to date.

Yeah I don't know what to say. I just uploaded them recently. Earlier today and then maybe about an hour ago. another forum member recommended that postimages site so I used it.

-T
 

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I know nothing about that, sorry, I use AdGuard for Firefox, excellent popup/adblocker, don't see nothing like that.
Sorry, I meant to reply to the postimage.cc links, not the the link you posted.
 
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