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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aside from the weak blacks, one other problem I have noticed with my recently delivered 60XBR800 is a blurred image during fast pans. This happens when watch DVDs (on an interlaced player, the Sony 7000) and also happens with my Tivo menus. Does anyone know what causes this?
 

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Cause? My bet is a woefully simple DeInterlacer or the LCD pixel "refresh rate" is being exceeded... You note your two sources are both Interlaced. Any chance you can try this with a Progressive signal?
 

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I upgraded my DVD to the progressive Panny 82 from an interlaced Tosh 2109 with dramatic improvement. Also apply the tweaks from umr in other threads.


There is still some blur, but I don't think it's more than any other RPTV set.


Good Luck !
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Unfortunately I don't have a progressive DVD player yet. I do intend to apply some or all of the UMR tweaks once I have had the TV for a few weeks (it arrived Thursday).


Do you still have your interlaced DVD player Kirk. How much of a difference do you think was due to the tweaks and how much was due to switching to a progressive DVD player. Having just bought the TV, getting my wife to agree to a new DVD player might take a while.
 

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Understand the budget concern but you've got to go to progressive scan. It was the very next purchase I made within two days of buying the GWII.


This set needs the best signal possible. Sony and several other DVD makers sell a good progressive DVD player for slightly less than $200.


You will see a difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by lrc
Understand the budget concern but you've got to go to progressive scan. It was the very next purchase I made within two days of buying the GWII.


This set needs the best signal possible. Sony and several other DVD makers sell a good progressive DVD player for slightly less than $200.


You will see a difference.
true, and the highly rated panny 82 mentioned above can be had for just over $100!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I probably will eventually. However my current DVD player (the Sony DVP-7000) is still an excellent DVD and CD player and is the only high end Sony player which does not have the chroma bug.


One of the advantages of progressive players is they can do the deinterlacing in the digital domain. This can result in a sharper image. However, the GWII has to convert the image back to digital anyway in order to scale it. I think the ideal DVD player for the GWII would output 720p via DVI.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ADGrant
I think the ideal DVD player for the GWII would output 720p via DVI.
HD DVD players possibly will, and we may see them within 2 years. Of course, since current DVDs are 480, I don't think that even a backwards-compatible HD DVD player will output today's DVDs at anything other than 480.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They could scale up the image and in fact one PC based DVD player already does that. If DVI was used though, it wouldn't matter where the scaling took place.
 

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I am seeing exactly this same behavior in my 800 to an extreme on usually a slow pan closeup. (Very bad ju ju here as the guys watch car shows frequently which involve constant slow pans down the sides of vehicles, - in this situation preformance is wretched. However the DVD solution will not help me with this issue as I have the Panny Prog. RP91. (I have not had time but I don't remember seeing this extreme behavior when DVD is source).

(I agree the S GW's beg for a progressive player..its a must in my book)

It is happening to an extreme on my Sat feed, (this did not occur ever with the GWI that proceeded it).


The effect is a giant large ripple in the pond across the screen (sort of like a football stadium preforming the wave across the entire screen vertically but normally appearing to move 'in' from the outer left/right sides. This same motion artifact I see also leaves my CNN bottom banner scroll at extreme left and right leaping to catch up on occasion.


Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mary, could you try to reproduce the same effect using your progressive scan DVD player. That would narrow it down to the deinterlacer. The fact that it did not occur with the GWI means it is unlikely to be an LCD refresh issue. If it is an issue with interlaced output, changing the DRC settings could help.


BTW Mary, I am not the only GWII owner who is still attached to his Sony DVP-S7000, UMR (the author of the GWII tweak list) also uses one for watching DVDs on his GWII.
 

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Another thought on tuesday I should finally have the dual HD sat. installed. I have been running this system off the old single round dish. I ran the GWI with the DTC100 and then the GWII with the DTC100 untill 2 days ago when the STB was changed to a trial run of the HD200.


Could it be the GWII is more sensitive to NOT having the dual dish dialed in ? Or something in the HD200? Will attempt what you suggested, and may just go ahead and call UE for an unsatisfied house call to see if I get an installor who can find any malfuntion on this particualr unit. Since I'm afraid I'll get into christmas and past my 30 days without resolving my issues. I'd RATHER have time to 'tweak' and figure it for myself....I have often had more luck with that method (getting help on forums) than any good the 'professional' service techs do me.


Thanks for the tip will do.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by broadwayblue
true, and the highly rated panny 82 mentioned above can be had for just over $100!
Where?! The cheapest I've ever seen that one is $220 at UE...


::edit:: PM me where you can get this deal if it's against the rules to post such info on the forum.
 

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I would suggest you use the the Microsoft DVD Test Annex Disk if you want to compare 480i & 480p dvd players. This disk contains performance tests for the video port in film and video mode that are excellent for this task.


I have looked at the GWII /w a DVP-S7000, Sonic CinePlayer on my PC and a Denon progressive player on the 507 and I don't see much difference on the deinterlacing performance with this test material. The performance of the PC and GWII vary depending on the test material. The PC is better on some and the GWII is better on some. I preferred the GWII for video test material to the PC for actual video/film test material. Scrolling titles on the GWII look perfect while the PC was jerky for example.


Blurred images on pans are going to happen whether the player is progressive or interlaced on a DVD because the source is interlaced. Take a look at the test pattern resolution changing as the direction of the motion shifts.


Excessive sharpening could also cause some of the effects mentioned in this post.


Edit: Modified comments on PC vs. GWII deinterlacer performance after additional review.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So you felt that upgrading to a progressive scan DVD playet from the DVP-S7000 would not be worthwhile? I have not yet applied your tweaks to my 60XBR800 (I have been examining the video quality without them). Will any of them reduce this effect (the override smart peaking or chroma delay settings perhaps?).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ADGrant
So you felt that upgrading to a progressive scan DVD playet from the DVP-S7000 would not be worthwhile? I have not yet applied your tweaks to my 60XBR800 (I have been examining the video quality without them). Will any of them reduce this effect (the override smart peaking or chroma delay settings perhaps?).
I have no plans to upgrade my DVD player based on my tests so far.


You should consider the service menu adjustments regardless of the time you have on the set if you are willing to take the risk.


I would suggest adjusting DRC (user menu), PIC-BOOST2, PIC-BOOST3 and 2170P-4 (GAMM) values to start with. The default value for chroma delay for a DVP-S7000 is definately wrong.
 

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For me - apples to apples, the same DVD player doing both interlaced and then progressive via the same component connectors showed that progressive was by far superior. I have a physical switch on the back of mine to select interlaced or progressive and it is a huge difference.


I haven't noticed any pixel smearing or the wave-like effects on mine, but due to good fortune my SD signals are cleaner than average. HD there definitely isn't a problem.



Ron
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by UUronl
For me - apples to apples, the same DVD player doing both interlaced and then progressive via the same component connectors showed that progressive was by far superior. I have a physical switch on the back of mine to select interlaced or progressive and it is a huge difference.


I haven't noticed any pixel smearing or the wave-like effects on mine, but due to good fortune my SD signals are cleaner than average. HD there definitely isn't a problem.



Ron
The only problem with that test is that many progressive players are designed to output a higher quality signal on progressive than interlaced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It is also possible that the interlaced signal of that player is not to the same standard as the interlaced output of the 7000 which is still one of the best interlaced players according to one review I read.


BTW I have been delaying the tweaks to the TV until I am familar enough with the PQ to see the difference. I will probably change the chroma delay first as I can clearly see that problem with the S7000.


I won't be bothering to tweak the input my Tivo is attached to though, it doesn't seem worth the effort.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well I tried the tweaks and they worked quite well. Pans look much better though they are still somewhat "jerky". I assume this is an interlacing artifact.
 
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