[paulgas]

Went to VMI in Sunnyvale today to meet Brian Rutz the N Calif district sales manager for JVC digital video division. He had a 150cl "right out of the box" all settings on default set on a shelf about 4 feet off the ground. he was projecting onto a large 10 year old white screen. We could make the room very dark. We watched about 100" wide image. His set up was 1080i JVC mastered demo tape to NRS set to "bypass" or a JVC DVD player, component out to NRS to 5 BNC RGB cable to the projector. WE DID NOT use the DVI input. He felt that the picture would not be any better that way if we did. He was not aware of coming JVC PVR with firewire. He said that was "consumer division". The JVC DVHS does have a 4 pin firewire INPUT that he said will mate to future set top boxes. he also stated that this unit will play SOME prerecorded hdvhs material but not all and that they were working to release the "PRO" version with more licensing on the de-encryption. Clearly technology still in flux. he said they had inventory sitting in Cypress. CA and I could have one in 5 days (provided I wrote a check)


Well the picture first. The HD DVHS was stunning. No doubt about it. I asked about FIREHAWK he knew nothing about it. Said "we advise unity gain white screen" I told him I was going to talk to Stewart. He said "That was a probably a better person to ask."


I asked about pixel perfect if you input native resolution at 72hz. He said"It should do that" He was not more specific.


I asked if we could see DVD without the NRS he said "We do not recomend that and this set up is all wired this way in the show case." We started with Shrek. Very lively, Very filmlike. No "digital sheen" like some DLP I have watched. To be fair I have never looked at a Firehawk setup and i will do that as soon as possible.


Gladiator. Seemed a little dark and a little orange/red. Now I am red green color blind so ymmv


Fifth element. Better than the theater. man I can not wait to get a setup going if this is what I have to look forward to. Just brilliant.


Noise. Yeah some. Not an issue. My bar fridge makes more. The heat seemed more of a deal. I will need to keep that room cool if I get one of these.


Bulb life he said 1800 hrs. Talked about how unit will AUTOMATICALLY increase current to bulb over life to increase constant light output and increase life.Said bulb was between 800 and 900 dollars (OUCH)


price... i asked for a bid for the unit the dvhs deck and the nrs i will let you know.


Basically what i took away was Beautiful film like image especially with HD content (at least 1080 i tape was hot) DVD can be great. No idea on broadcast or sat. He said " Will only be as good a source." Seemed very easy to set up. Should be great with professional calibration. Will be hot and pricey to run. But image is smooth smooth smooth. I gotta see a seleco now so i can decide.

 

[2mnyToys]

Thanks for the report Paul.


Alan, wasn't there talk of a powerbuy a little while ago?

 

[Alan Gouger]

Paul great review. This projector sounds promising.


2mnyToys contact me off line.

 

[paulgas]

Alan have you seen this pj in action? How do you compare seleco 300 to this machine or a g15 at least? If youhave new on a buy maybe you can email or pm me as well.

 

[Michael Grant]

Hi folks,


Paul was kind enough to let me in on his little demo, so I headed down to VMI this morning as well.


The JVC rep seemed rather new to the home theater projector arena. His expertise seemed more in pro video. This is probably typical of the JVC reps nowadays, since the G150 is the first projector JVC is actively targeting as a home theater option. I don't think he knew how to handle a geek like (I'd say "geeks like us" but I don't want to label Paul without his approval


I think that in part explains why he really wasn't willing to let us see DVD without the NRS scaler. The G150 does have 3:2 detection so for a clean film-based source the internal scaler ought to look good on its own.


I was also disappointed with his downplaying the DVI input. Not only did we not have a source going into the DVI, but he poo-poohed it as not that important. "Look, the D-ILA is an analog device anyway". Well, yes, but there's digital processing before that, so that means that using the analog inputs forces an additional A/D step... sigh.


He also seemed entirely unfamiliar with the worries expressed in this forum all high-definition content will soon require an all-digital encrypted path to the display device. But hey, given that he had a DVHS player sitting there outputting 1080i, who the promise of movie studios releasing films in the D-Theater format, who knows? Maybe the MPAA will decide that high-def analog isn't so dangerous after all.


Having said that, I agree with Paul's assessment of the picture quality. The thing looks great, but I don't know how much better it might look than, say, a Phelps-calibrated G15. And, like any D-ILA projector, you're going to want to mask out the halo and/or the letterbox for the best experience.


Is it worth the extra money over the G15? Hmm...

 

[thebland]

Thanks for the info.


There is no way to hook the D-VHS up the G150's DVI.


BTW, Is there an a/d conversion via the component inputs. I know the signal is in analog PRIOR to hitting the panels. Perhaps the analog signall from the component inputs is carried directly to the prism without an extra A/D D/A conversion.


If this is the case I see little value of the DVI input for DILA (now, DLP there is value).


G-15 may be the value here (and a bulb with double the life for double the cost doesn't look to good either).


Jeff (still would be intersted in a power buy price if it is a show stopper!)

JEff

 

[Colmino]

> I asked about pixel perfect if you input native resolution at 72hz. He said"It should do that" He was not more specific.


Thanks for asking. Pity the guy running the demo seems to have been a tech support employee who took the job on a dare. (Maybe that's a little harsh.)


> There is no way to hook the D-VHS up the G150's DVI.


Not until somebody slaps together code that converts fireware into DVI, intended for a HTPC. This is just an example; I'm hoping it gets done before somebody does the same thing in hardware and charges $5000 for it.

 

[David Panko]

Quote:

Originally posted by thebland BTW, Is there an a/d conversion via the component inputs. I know the signal is in analog PRIOR to hitting the panels. Perhaps the analog signall from the component inputs is carried directly to the prism without an extra A/D D/A conversion. If this is the case I see little value of the DVI input for DILA (now, DLP there is value).

There is an A/D conversion on all of the D-ILA's analog inputs, including the component inputs. Gamma correction and other video processing is done digitally before a final D/A at the panel. On the G15 this processing is done with 8 bits and the 150CL uses 10.


A DVI connection saves two D/A conversions and is immune to signal degradation from cabling so should have a significantly better picture, even on an analog device like the D-ILA. Initial reports are that DVI looks stunning on the Hitachi compared to VGA. DVI on the 150CL should look equally as good.

Hitachi 5500 & Isco 11 Lens & Dvi Inuts

Quote:

G-15 may be the value here (and a bulb with double the life for double the cost doesn't look to good either).

Both the G15 and 150CL use the same lamp (JVC part number BHL5001-SU). The Cermax replacement bulb will work equally well in both projectors.


Cheers,

Dave.

 

[anthonymoody]

Thanks for the reviews. If JVC is really targetting the consumer HT market it sounds like they're going to really need to 'recalibrate' their sales and marketing folks...

TM

 

[Michael Grant]

I wouldn't be too optimistic about Firewire->DVI conversion. For commercial copy protected HD videos, I imagine that either the Firewire output will be disabled or it will be encrypted.

 

[Jet-X]

It was my understanding that DVI is currently limited to 1280x1024. Is that still the case here?

 

[Mark Hinton]

According to the manual, the G150CL accepts the following DVI signals:


VGA 60Hz, 640x480

VGA 72Hz, 640x480

VGA 75Hz, 640x480

VGA 85Hz, 640x480

SVGA 56Hz, 800x600

SVGA 60Hz, 800x600

SVGA 72Hz, 800x600

SVGA 75Hz, 800x600

SVGA 85Hz, 800x600

XGA 43Hz, 1024x768

XGA 60Hz, 1024x768

XGA 70Hz, 1024x768

XGA 75Hz, 1024x768

XGA 85Hz, 1024x768

SXGA 43Hz, 1280x1024

SXGA 60Hz, 1280x1024

SXGA 75Hz, 1280x1024

SXGA 85Hz, 1280x1024


It also states that some signals other than those listed above can be displayed, but may need adjustment and that V-sync 85Hz on DVI is not supported.


Then for display purposes, the projector has a resize function which allows the following:


Resize: The relationship between the number of pixels (resolution) and the screen can be selected. Options are:


“1:1â€: The image is displayed at the input resolution. The picture image projected is not enlarged even if its number of pixels (resolution) is smaller than that of the projector’s D-ILA element (1365 pixels × 1024 pixels).


Panel: The picture image projected is virtually enlarged to the full size (1365 pixels × 1024 pixels). The horizontal and vertical enlargement ratio will differ depending on the original image and the image will be deformed.


Aspect: While maintaining the original aspect ratio, the video image projected is virtually enlarged until either the horizontal or vertical side reaches the full size (1365 pixels × 1024 pixels).


Mark

 

[Colmino]

> It was my understanding that DVI is currently limited to 1280x1024. Is that still the case here?


According to what I've read, the spec for single-link DVI allows for up to 1280x1024 at 85Hz or 1920x1080 at 60Hz.


Truthfully, I'm quite underwhelmed by DVI.. It may be digital, but it was a poor, poor choice. Cable length limitations and less than spectacular maximum resolutions. What was wrong with firewire? Or even SDI?


> I wouldn't be too optimistic about Firewire->DVI conversion. For commercial copy protected HD videos, I imagine that either the Firewire output will be disabled or it will be encrypted.


If it's disabled... Shrug, I figure if it ever becomes _remotely_ popular, somebody will eventually release products with digital out (see: Hong Kong / Taiwan). And encryption? Ha. I can already hear the hackers cracking their knuckles.


> It also states that some signals other than those listed above can be displayed, but may need adjustment and that V-sync 85Hz on DVI is not supported.


Oh, goodie. It's fun discovering things like this when it's too late to do anything about it. Going to be a blast seeing if the G150CL's DVI input was a masterstroke or a poorly-implemented afterthought.


I mean, it will be REALLY ironic if 1280x1024 is the best digital-in you can get on a $14,000 projector with a 1365x1024 panel. The main reason I dropped the Hitachi 5500 was because of this SPECIFIC limitation.

 

[Mark Hinton]

Although I have not tried it yet, I would read this to say that 1365x1024 could be acheived by one of the following:


- Feed a 1280x1024 DVI signal to your scaler. Scale to 1365x1024 (Leeza) or 1360x1024 (NRS w/DVI) and resize on the G150 using the 1:1 (pixel perfect) option.


OR


- Feed a 1280x1024 DVI signal directly to the G150. Resize using the panel option which will stretch 1280x1024 to 1365x1024.


The proof will be in the pudding of course, but that would be my read of how it should work based on what's in the manual. There could of course always be some unstated fact that was left out of the manual.


Mark

 

[thebland]

Perhaps the DVI is a tease to sell a unit nearly Identical to the G-15 for $5K more!


JEff

 

[ramick]

I agree with thebland - alot of projs seem to "support" DVI just to get on the bandwagon.

 

[CCLAY]

Paul or Michael,


Did you notice any color shading on the 150? The DILAs typically have the greenish/pinkish color shift on either side of the image.


"Both the G15 and 150CL use the same lamp (JVC part number BHL5001-SU)."


Hmmm, I wonder how they claim 1800 hrs if it's the same bulb? I wonder if the bulb voltage starts out lower initially and increases as the hours increase?


It would be interesting to know the actual color temp and contrast of the projector.


Chris

 

[paulgas]

C CLAY. Thats exactly what the rep said the pj does when it is in that mode. Starts out at 70% voltage to bulb then ramps up over the life of the bulb theoretically extending the the life of the bulb. May be ok if the cermax bulb works just as well as that brings the cost /hr way down.


As to color shift. i thought the colors were good but remember I am red/green impaired. They say that the claim to fame of this unit is that they are using it in post production because of its accuracy. The said Lucas has a bunch at the ranch.


Paul

 

[Colmino]

> Although I have not tried it yet, I would read this to say that 1365x1024 could be acheived by one of the following:

> - Feed a 1280x1024 DVI signal to your scaler. Scale to 1365x1024 (Leeza) or 1360x1024 (NRS w/DVI) and resize on the G150 using the 1:1 (pixel perfect) option.


This was my plan, matter of fact. Sounds great on paper, but not after the JVC manual totally skirts the issue of full-panel DVI support.


Heck, at this point, I'd be greatly relieved if anyone could confirm that the G150CL or its predecessors could accept a full-panel signal through _any_ means (analog). For the time being, I feel like the rug was yanked from underneath me.

 

[Michael Grant]

We watched bits of Shrek, Gladiator, Fifth Element, and a high-definition video of a Yes concert; and I couldn't tell any noticeable color issues. But don't count me as an expert. I just saw no glaring problems.


As for the lamp power control, there are two options: you can let the unit do slowly raise the power from 70% to 100% over the (extended) life of the bulb, or you can just fix it at one of 7 levels between 70% and 100%.


I don't think there's any reason to worry about supporting native 1365x1024 signal analog. After all, people do it with the G15 all the time. Besides, a projector really can't know exactly how many pixels horizontally you're sending out; all it can do is judge the beginning and end of the line via the sync information. (But I suppose that from there it can assume a certain number of pixels across... hmm...)