HAI/RUSSOUND Combo??? CINEMAR experience?

Meevan,


I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding integrating with Cinemar software and your HAI and Russound gear. It's actually MainLobby that I believe you are referencing.


You can do some pretty cool stuff. I'd recommend still installing the UNO-S2 Keypads. They can provide distributed IR to your devices. This will allow you to use standard remotes as well as touchscreens. These keypads can also serve as information displays. Using Cinemar's software, you can pass CallerID info to all keypads when the phone rings. Even announce the name of the person calling over the Russound system. Or if you have driveway or door sensors, you can make announcements over the Russound system based on security violations. I programmed my system to play songs as users come to the door and ring the DoorFon system. It plays "I hear you Knocking" or the Jetsons theme song through the Russound and our outdoor speakers.


Check out the Samsung Q1 for a cool portable 7" wireless touchscreen:
http://www.cinemaronline.com/samsungq1.html


I personally have a CAM and CAV in my own home. I also have an ELKM1 for security, but it would provide similar functionality as the HAI system.


You can build just about anything you want including a mixing board to control all Russound Zones.
http://www.cinemaronline.com/images/....0017_0008.jpg


Actually the Video Distribution serves the same purpose as your Audio distribution...providing a home run video source to all rooms. I'd recommend an HDTV matrix switcher rather than using the composite in/outputs of the Russound. Add a 400 Disc Sony Changer, and you can watch a movie in your family room, then pause and finishing watching it in your bedroom. If you have a Satellite box or DVR, you can also have HDTV in all your rooms and access to any prerecorded shows in all rooms.


Cinemar's software supports a variety of HDTV matrix switchers, check the website for details. You can build macro's that automatically switch your Matrix Switcher and Russound Audio with a single click via a wireless or wired touchscreen.


I personally mounted a 15" Planar touchscreen in the wall.

Check out this tutorial for more details on how it was integrated:
http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/f...pic.php?t=8844

Meevan have a look at www.charmedquark.com , very reliable and stable product..here are a few things I have designed for use with the software

http://www.touchscreengraphics.com/gallery2/main.php


I also own a Russound CAV6.6 which I have full control over with a CQC driver and as well the Russound ST2-XM and the Russound iBridge...of course I also have other components controlled via RS-232 and two-way feedback.


I distribute HD video with the Neothings Avalon which CQC also has a driver for.


I should also mention all CQC drivers are FREE and you will not be charged for every component you wish to control and you will not be charged for each and every touchscreen client you might add.


Be sure to fully investigate a products pricing for driver/plugin costs as well as cost for clients..in the end you may be paying way more than the advertised price and while the advertised product may look great you should also check to be sure the graphics used in advertising the products are actually free and not yet another purchase you need to make.

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No, it costs $100/year for free minor upgrades.

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Is that a commitment anywhere? I don't see a phone # for support on their site, it certainly wasn't there when I was eval'ing it.


Are there weekly/monthly webex sessions for Cinemar users, where newbies can attend and learn how to setup their systems, or share their screens and have other power users walk them through set up/bugfixing their systems? MUCH more powerful than phone support.

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No, because it's illegal to rip DVDs, and CQC chooses to not flagrantly violate the law.

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Yes, at least in beta mode, in addition to supporting dozens of other hardware bits that Cinemar doesn't.

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Cinemars support number is the first thing on the top of their page, I just found it funny that Ripper explained you paid once for CQC and beware of others continuing to charge with no mention of yearly charges.


How many people attend this Webex? If a problem takes an hour of testing to get something working everyone dedicates to their problem? And at 1:00 on Sunday night? I guess thats the power of the phone.


So its against the law to load up a Sony with DVDs and need the covers? I dont think CQC would be fragrantly breaking the law to load DVD covers on a server but maybe it is.


Does Cinemar support dozens of hardware bits that CQC doesnt? Like going into standby on a laptop?

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My bad - I didn't realize Cinemar offers unlimited phone tech support to all it's customers. I'll be sure to point that out from now on when discussing the merits of the package.
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Wow - Cinemar now offers unlimited 24x7 tech support? Smoothtlk - you really need to mention this more often. I know I will point to this thread from hereon out. Hope you got lots of coffee.

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Huh? If you're talking something that's mountable like that Sony VAIO 200disc firewire changer, then yes, CQC will soon be able to autoscan that and download all the metadata. That's one of the value points of it's new Media Repository. If it's a 777 megachanger, then there's no way any package can autoscan that as it is not linkable to your PC.

And your point there is what?

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What are you talking about? You can go into standby on any viewer-only machine.


Tell you what - you go see how many pieces of hardware Cinemar directly supports, then go look at the CQC page, and I think you'll back off this point very very very quickly.

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The DIY verions costs (for now) $495, it'll go to $895 after 2.0 goes out. That includes everything we have, all drivers all components. There is a $95/year fee that gets you all upgrades for that year. The first year is included in the price. The only thing that you won't get as part of the yearly fee is if we come out with a major new component, of which we've only had one in coming up on 3 years (which is the new media system.) But that will be substantially discounted for existing users, assuming you even want to buy it which you don't have to do.


So there's never any charges if you need to add more devices to your system, you've already payed for them.

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Part of the 2.0 media system is a media repository program. We don't need to use J.River or DVD Profiler anymore. We can rip CDs ourselves and we can get CD and DVD metadata for you. We cannot rip DVDs, since that isn't legal. But if you want to use something else to do that, that's your business. We can integrate the ripped DVDs into our system once they are there.


As with eveything else, the media management program is networked, so you can rip CDs and load up media metadata from whatever machines in your home network you want to install taht client tool on.

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We have significantly more hardware support, unless you combine ML with something like Homeseer and deal with multiple packages. And the 2.0 release is going to significantly increase that number. We have just over 100 drivers in 1.6. Almost all of them are really for devices, not just something more like a plugin that just adds some simple function to the system. A lot of the ML plugins are not for actual hardware devices. 2.0 is going to add it looks like about maybe 30'ish new drivers.

I think the more important point is - what driver support is Cinemar missing? A quantity of esoteric drivers of very low volume usage is not what will affect the majority of users. If you are doing the counting thing, there are multiple devices supported in many Cinemar drivers. We develop drivers for where there is a need. And Cinemar is in the process of increasing it's driver portfolio fairly dramatically (for popular devices).


We also have the MLGenericDevice plugin which essentially allows any strong DIY or dealer to develop their own driver to get out of a pinch. This will allow sharing of drivers between users and from Cinemar to a user / dealer. This replaces the MLGenericSerial that is used for hundreds of devices now (but we aren't doing the counting thing - because who cares?).


If you look at a particular driver, I have found that CQCs are basic vs. a MainLobby driver can sometimes be an application all by itself. One example is the Rain8Net irrigation controller. Dean's basically allows CQC to turn the device on and off. MainLobby's is a scheduling system, a user interface and a base level turn a zone on / off. This is so someone can buy that driver and be up and running in a short period of time controlling their system. They don't have to script that support into the automation engine (though they can). Where does a dealer (or DIY) want to spend their time - scripting or selling the next job?


Soooo, getting back to the original posters question - YES, there is an HAI and a Russound Plugin that work well. And, you are right, an ELO touchscreen will look marvelous compared to the vendor specific keypads for either of those two system. Go for it. sorry you had to wade through all of the CQC vs. MainLobby dribble.

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It's all about choices. I'd rather have the best of both worlds. A set of drivers that supports the more popular devices, and lots of drivers that are 'esoteric' in case I happen to deviate from the norm. I hate being locked into a given path of hardware because that's the only driver available.

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CQC has two versions of this. PDL drivers that are basic one-way or two-way and are fairly easy to create, and CML drivers which allow for pretty much anything. Both PDL and CML comes with the full system package at no cost.

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That's because it's redundant. CQC has a rich event scheduler, so it wouldn't make sense to create more overhead by putting redundancy into the driver. It's very easy for a DIYer or Pro for that matter to have a canned set of events loaded into the scheduler. You're really reaching here.

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The operative word here is buy. It's free with CQC as are all other drivers, pluggins, etc.

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To which you are as large a contributor as anyone.


To me the bottom line is this: MainLobby is a good product, is commercially successful, has a good following of adopters and for the most part does what it needs to do for those who use it. CQC is also a good product, is also commercially successful given its infancy, has a following of passionate adopters that's growing rapidly and for the most part does what it needs to do for those who use it. These debates are getting mostly pointless as you can never do an apples to apples comparison. One product will always excel where another may be lacking in one area and to sit here and highlight only those areas for the benefit of promoting a product is fruitless and a disservice to those searching for real answers.


I mean c'mon....We know that ML doesn't have 24/7 phone support and we know that you can hibernate a laptop when CQC is installed correctly. We know that ML has working Insteon driver and that CQC's is in its infancy. We know that you have to buy most additional drivers and some pluggins for ML and pay upgrade costs for new versions. And we know that CQC charges $95 a year to cover all their upgrades.


I can dog MainLobby all day long and could do the same for CQC, choosing to focus on the shortcomings only, skewing the facts to support my argument, glossing over the frailities of both. And for what purpose? At this point, it doesn't help anyone here to make a decision on which product to purchase. The proof is in the pudding. I suggest that anyone contemplating either product, go to the respective sites/forums, download and use the product during trial, participate in discussions and then and only then will you know which product suits you.


And, in the interest of fairness, don't populate this thread with, "why doesn't product A do this or that"? Spend some time on the products forum to determine A) if it really doesn't and B) if there is a legitimate reason it doesn't. Anyone who has used ML and tries CQC or vice versa are of course going to find differences. So spend a month and then write a dissertation as to why you like one product over another. But to prematurely spout off about shortcomings (many of which are proven wrong on both sides) is pointless.

OK then thats pretty easy just take the automation forum out of AVS, we dont need it. Just put a sentence up in its place that says Visit CQC and Cinemar forums and dont discuss anything here. This may be good because then we have no need for you to belittle other members because youre an advanced automation guy and some of us are newbies that dont have countless hours to wander aimlessly through five and six forums and thousands of threads looking for answers. Focusing on shortcomings is EXACTLY what this forum is for in order to make a quick decision. Why would anyone want to spend a month on one program only to dump it for another and try it for a month to come back because of unknown reasons. For you to say someone didnt install something properly when it was according to the directions on the basis of " well they should be a power user to start with and be able to decipher geek speak before attempting to even try a supposed "DIY" software and know we really didnt mean what the directions said because we figured you already understood from an experienced automation persons point of view "


For the love of...... even a Crestron guy couldnt figure out the freaking directions, you expect a newbie too? I installed it exactly like the on screen direction explained, I dont recall a sentence that said to log in to the forums and ask a question before each step but I am guessing thats needed.


And I have had support from Cinemar at 9:00 am all the way to 2:00 am ( I havent tried the other 7 hour period because I am sleeping and everything in between and someone walking you through the steps in english instead of ascii really gets you up and running quick.


So this forum is supposed to be for selling software, not actually talking about it or gosh forbid asking if it can handle a certain task? Its a good thing the Dedicated Theaters section doesnt let the Home Theater installers run rampant calling the DIYers dumbasses at every turn and telling them to head elsewhere or we never would have seen a couple seriously spectacular DIY theaters that make the Pro theaters look like a fancy fabric box with a 16 x 9 screen. A couple DIYers have transformed the Theater section into whats expected now and not " Take what we are gonna give" This year showcased the explosion of 2.35:1 curved AT screens that actually have gain for well under 1K, DIY acoustics for thousands less, DIY speaker building and the list goes on. Face it, These DIYers are wanting in the automation world as well and I guess scared away by some "pros" that want to control the forum the way they want it handled, no wonder the other 4 or 5 wont come in here.

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You completely missed the point. Discussion is one thing. Throwing out unfounded accusations and half-truths is another and has only muddied the waters. When owners of the companies speak on the behalf of their product, especially when comparing it to another, no matter how hard one tries and how good the intentions it will be biased with facts and figures skewed in a manner to promote their product. To that end, those discussions are at least confusing and at most worthless.


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At no time have I belittled anyone. Please quote me where I have and I'll apologize to that individual. I'm no more advanced than anyone else, and it is you who are assuming things you don't know. For example, as far as trolling forums, I could assume you are a forum junkie judging from your post count in one years time. And as far as CQC goes, I just bought my package this Summer before the price change. If three months of CQC makes me an advanced automation guy then I appreciate the compliment


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Because the only way to know if something is good for you is to test drive it. Goes for cars, women and software

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Again you misinterpret. What I said was that the comment was made that CQC can't allow a laptop to hibernate and that's because for that application it was installed incorrectly. If installed correctly, of course a laptop can hibernate. At no time did I say you were at fault for installing it incorrectly for your application and at no time did I blame you or call you ignorant for doing so. All I said was that the reason it couldn't hibernate is because it was installed incorrectly.

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Well there's no accounting for QQQ's expertise

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Of course that's not needed, but what is needed is a little restraint and finding out perhaps why before just assuming that it can't be done.

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And if Cinemar has free 24/7 phone support for all its users then that is commendable. But I highly doubt that is the case. Perhaps a special case was made for you because of your vocal displeasure about ML. I don't know, I'm not assuming anything. Perhaps Smooth or Mario can comment on the official phone support policy and hours.

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Exactly the opposite and hence the reason for my post that offended you. It was more directed at the salesmanship going on and that no matter the talk, the proof is in the product itself and how it lends itself to any individuals particular application.


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I have no idea what this means. The Distribution forum and the newly created Home Automation forum have always generated a good amount of traffic and post and is mostly populated by DIYers of which I am one.

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Agree, just the facts


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Maybe I had the post smoothtlk replied to as " glad to meet you too" confused with someone else and probably so on another thread, for somereason this morning I thought I was over yonder in the bashing thread where the posts were obviously deleted, I may have mistaken you for audiblesolutions or someone else that layed into smoothtlk. But calling someone a forum junkie troll might be slightly belittling, FWIW I spent most of my posts doing exactly what you are trying to accomplish. there was a DIY thread about DIY AT screen material being tested and I was involved with testing, not because I was selling it or going to but infact use it on a 14' 2.35:1 screen and was excited about the results. The Big boys felt threatened and brought their army of shills in to discount the product and none of us could figure out why they were in a DIY forum trying to almost stop us from finding a decent alternative, since I was one of the testers I had to reply frequently and still do in other posts about that product. The sale of 1000 screens in 5 months was because of those posts including screenshot, videos, and testing.


The other areas included people burning up Insteon products and calling them junk because they didnt understand how to install the system, instead of calling them out as people that didnt know how to sludge through countless forums I layed it out with diagrams and everything


I guess the other fact that I have noticed wonderful DIY theaters being built and added 1 post that states " Why not make that 16 x 9 a constant height 2.35:1 to fit the look of that great theater". Now it takes five posts to explain how. In my thread people noticed I raised the ceiling and built my own speakers which drags me into their threads to help with both these items as well as building a theater at the same time as 4 other DIYers that are trying to " share the load" of research and when we find results, post these in each others threads. One particular guy and I spend hours tearing things apart from the ground up in an attempt to find whats best. when you have over 500 and some questions asked on how, why and where, sometimes it takes 2 posts to answer. Now I find myself in uncharted waters and will probably hand the reins to one of the others to fact find here.

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It was installed correctly, the proper adjustments that IVB was so nice to send me werent implemented yet.

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I know of atleast one other that has had many hours of phone support of all times of the night and day, hes the one that told me about it.

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It just seems the answer " go to their forums and read for the next 6 weeks" is a copout, if your going to sell a product as advertised, answer the questions and the advanced people just need to understand theres newbies here making true statements about faulty issues regardless of the " well you should have known that" comebacks. If there was a large sticky of all the quirks and stuff that doesnt work yet ( Insteon) and updated when it did work we wouldnt need to ask questions. Off to read 30,000 posts in 3,000 threads I go ( on one product), I can hardly wait, 27 days to go until the trials up, times a wasting.